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+---- Thread: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD (/Thread-Using-A-Worn-WD-for-Attacking-and-Destabilizing-Killer-Bull-100WD)
Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
During my free time, I took the time to create and test one of my most interesting combos. It is said that a destabilizer has to have attack or a flat bottom but I beg to differ. Think of the destabilizer: L-Drago 100JB. It not only steals spin, it destabilizes without a flat bottom. Just because something moves fast doesn't make it an attack bottom. WB, after extensive use, becomes somewhat aggressive and my worn WD completes approximately 30 full rotations around the stadium before coming to the center and going into stamina mode and it destabilizes and gets the job done successfully. With that said, here are my results. As for Killer/ Evil, an overlooked wheel IMO, due to its flat nature, it destabilizes just as Flame does. Recently, I have also used it for defense and the underside of the wheel has been effective in deflecting or in some cases, possibly absorbing the hits very well just as Earth does. That however is for another time. All tests were done in TT Attack Stadium.
Against Stamina types
Killer Bull 100WD(worn) vs. Burn Bull AD145WD(fresh)
Killer:8/10=80% win rate
Burn: 2/10=20% win rate
Killer demolished this combo when it made it back to the center. After the 30 rotations, Burn had lost enough speed for Killer to come in, with the help of the Bull clear wheel, and completely destabilizes and outspin Burn. In 3 battles, Killer was able to lift Burn 4 times consecutively and then dragging Burn down for the kill. This is significant because this shows that the Bull clear wheel actually provides sufficient upper attack abilities. Burn received its two wins in the last 2 battles by either forcing Killer down or avoiding it long enough during the end of the battle to outspin it by a few rotations. All KOs and draws were redone to test the destabilizing ability.
Killer Bull 100WD(worn) vs. Earth(Mold 1) AD145WD(fresh)
Killer: 7/10=70% win rate
Earth: 3/10=30% win rate
Earth did better I believe because of the ridges under the wheel. Somehow, those came into effect and forced down Killer during the match, making the underside of Killer slam down into the stadium and take away a massive amount of stamina. In some cases however, it did not hurt Killer as much and the match either ended up as Killer winning or a draw. Multiple times though, Earth was also lifted into the air and dragged down just as much as Burn was.
Killer Bull 100WD(worn) vs. Earth Bull (Mold 2) AD145WD(fresh)
Killer : 6/10=60% win rate
Earth: 4/10=40% win rate
I wanted to use Mold 2 of Earth to see if it would make a difference. Although the win rate of Earth increased, it still suffered from the same issues as Mold 1 and Burn but to a lesser extent.
Against Defense
Killer Bull 100WD vs. MF-2 Earth Aquario GB145RS
Killer: 10/10=100% win rate
Killer Bull 100 WD vs MF-2 Earth Aquario GB145WB
Killer:10/10=100% win rate
These results are pretty self-explanatory. Either Earth was completly destabilized or outspun. It stood no chance
Against Attack
I would like to note that I did not use a Metal face of any kind on this combo to test its defense abilities without any enhancements. Almost every attack that this combo absorbed during its win were either by the clear wheel which was very effective or the wheel which was surprising. The underside of the wheel allowed it to rebound of the tornado ridge in some cases to allow itself from being sent out.
Killer vs. MF Pegasis 145RF(Sliding shoot applied)
Killer: 6/10= 60% win rate(4 by OS, 2 by KO)
Peg: 4/10= 40% win rate(ALL KO)
I would have to say that this really surprised me. The clear wheel in some of the matches absorbed the hits as if they were mere taps. The upper slopes on Bull also sent Pegasis flying out of the stadium in two matches which were the only ones that Killer won by KO. The others were either results of Killer circling the stadium and not being hit very often due to Pegasis being in sliding shoot and missing or by surviving the powerful attacks with the help of the clear wheel or the wheel itself which received a lot of damage during these matches against Pegasis.
Killer vs. Ray Gemios 100R2F
Killer: 6/10
Ray: 4/10
Even at the same track height, the clear wheel still came into play. R2F, When it is practically fresh like mine, makes the beyblade a bit higher than usual just as ES does. The Bull clear wheel was able to absorb a good amount of shock although in some cases, Ray just forced it out. Half of Killer's wins were actually by KO since Killer has a bit of recoil which sometimes works in its favor.
And now the saddening part,
Killer vs. MF Lightning L-Drago 100R2F
Killer= 3/10
Drago= 7/10
I swear, if I didn't love the L-Drago series so much, I would despise this wheel and never purchase it, EVER. It destroys dreams everyday. L-Drago annihilated this combo but not without a fight every match. The hits were intense. It was almost as if Killer was actually putting up a valiant effort and had significant smash but it really doesn't. Suprisingly enough, only one of Killer's wins were by outspin. The rest were by strange yet cool KOs that involved the Bull clear wheel somehow getting under Lightning and sending it out or by the underside of Killer hitting Lightning after being knocked off balance.
Overall, I feel I can say that a destabilizer does NOT have to have an attack bottom and it doesn't have to be flat. I already know what to improve on this combo so there is no need to advise anything. Try it out and see what I see. I think destabilizers are better on bottoms like WD because that Life after death effect that WD has aids in last minute destabilization to create a draw or a win.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Fyuuor - Dec. 30, 2010
Nice results, just a shame this combo was discovered after the release of 230.
Would you be able to post a picture of the WD bottom you used to show how worn it is?
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Soundwave - Dec. 30, 2010
wow, I knew killer had to be good for something!
nice tests! I'll try it right now
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
I'll go get my camera and take pics now Fyuuor. I think the same effect can occur if you put Killer on 145 but I don't have 230 yet. I have to wait a week until I get it.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Gearfried97 - Dec. 30, 2010
wow, if your WD circles stadiums, it must be very worn...
i too would like to see just how worn it is
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
Man, I think 230 is the new Lighning LDrago: Crusher of aspirations!
Either way, like to see how this stands up to the new towering giant of the metagame.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
Until I find the camera, I can give an idea of how worn it is. The sharp point on it is now rounded like a ball. The best example of this would be a wok with steeper slopes.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
Could you test this with a lower track as a comparison?
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
Unfortunately, until my package comes in next week, I only have 100 has my lowest track. I would not advise using it any lower though considering the fact that Killer has those protrusions under the wheel that drag the stadium floor quite often.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
I'd assume so since whenever I put anything lower than 100 on an F series bottom, I might as well have been scraping a chalkboard. I had just thought WD could have been different that way..
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
I see your logic behind it and I agree. Unfortunately though, Killer just can't go any lower without failing horribly. I think I do have a solution to our 230 problem. I'm going out on a whim but bare with me. I think M145 can actually help. Even though it makes a beyblade bounce, I believe that if you use WD which will provide enough stamina to keep it spinning long enough to possibly win a battle and/ or use either a wheel with upper attack or even a clear wheel with it like Bull, it could actually connect with enough force under the wheel that is used on 230 and lift it high enough to either cause a KO or knock it completely off balance. I will try this myself when it comes in but I encourage others to do so before me.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
I am totally open-minded about M145, as I planned to test once I got new parts. I think all wheels put in the position of destabilizing cannot perform with anything lower, now that I see this. I can help you with this project if you like, I'm off to find E. Virgo tomorrow and will do some serious inputting here all day if I can.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Ricko - Dec. 30, 2010
Killer it´s thin like flame so yes it´s great on destabilizing but still he has less stamina compared to Flame.. lol i was thinking on this too when i saw the beywiki topic about Killer Gemios! xD
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Nojo294 - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 3:55 AM)Bluezee Wrote: I see your logic behind it and I agree. Unfortunately though, Killer just can't go any lower without failing horribly. I think I do have a solution to our 230 problem. I'm going out on a whim but bare with me. I think M145 can actually help. Even though it makes a beyblade bounce, I believe that if you use WD which will provide enough stamina to keep it spinning long enough to possibly win a battle and/ or use either a wheel with upper attack or even a clear wheel with it like Bull, it could actually connect with enough force under the wheel that is used on 230 and lift it high enough to either cause a KO or knock it completely off balance. I will try this myself when it comes in but I encourage others to do so before me.
This is actually so ridiculous it might work. After all I've had M145 jump over beys at the 145 height... it will be purely up to luck though...
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:02 AM)Dan Wrote: I am totally open-minded about M145, as I planned to test once I got new parts. I think all wheels put in the position of destabilizing cannot perform with anything lower, now that I see this. I can help you with this project if you like, I'm off to find E. Virgo tomorrow and will do some serious inputting here all day if I can.
Thank you very much. I would indeed like the help. The more tests, the better IMO. I really think M145 can produce enough force under a wheel to send it flying under the right circumstances. I think the key to this though would be more along the lines of getting a bottom that will maintain its position in the middle but still bounce around enough to consistently hit a 230 based combo while it is in stamina mode.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
I think a fresh WD can do so, I also think that since the WD is pointed enough in that state that it can still bounce and due to the slope of the stadium, be able to propel itself towards 230. (Of course that will not happen every time it propels, but still.)
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:10 AM)Dan Wrote: I think a fresh WD can do so, I also think that since the WD is pointed enough in that state that it can still bounce and due to the slope of the stadium, be able to propel itself towards 230. (Of course that will not happen every time it propels, but still.)
VERY WELL SAID. That's exactly what I had in mind. The only thing I see that might be a problem would be the shifting of M145. Sometimes, although my Hasbro one seems to stay in place wherever I put it, the internal switch might make the tip move out of position and possibly making the combo self-destruct.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
I had experienced that only with very hard knocks, though almost exclusively available from Attack types, so I do not have much fear of that, especially from 230.
Edit: Well, we will probably be dealing with a lot of bouncing so it would be better to keep that open. Though I still retain my bias.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Mc Frown - Dec. 30, 2010
Do you know what Spin-Stealing is?
It's in no way surprising that a low track Stamina custom beats a high track one (bar 230), we came to that conclusion months ago. And some of these results just seem wrong. Earth Mold 1 should do better than Mold 2.
And some of your tests are frivolous, no destabilising went on against the RS bro, it was merely the expected outspin, and testing against a 145 height Pegasis Attack combo as well as against Ray? Both of those are pretty badly outclassed now. Anyways, then the mainstay top-tier Attack wheel comes along and smashes it, predictable. Maybe I'll pick up a Killer Gemios tomorrow and test this out. And please excuse my skepticism.
EDIT: This is only an address to the OP, not the current discussion.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Dan - Dec. 30, 2010
We are talking about M145 though..
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Nojo294 - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:51 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Do you know what Spin-Stealing is?
It's in no way surprising that a low track stamina custom beats a high track one (bar 230), we came to that conclusion months ago. And some of these results just seem wrong. Earth Mold 1 should do better than Mold 2.
What spin stealing? They're all right spin...
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
What did Spin-Stealing have to do with any of this? The combo tested is a right spinning beyblade against other right spinners with the exception of LL Drago. Also, the point was not to surprise anyone with anything. It was to provide results and new options. Maybe you should test more and talk less. Just because something seems wrong does not mean it is. Also, as far as I'm concerned and from what I can see, Pegasis is still top-tier along with Ray so even if they may possibly be outclassed as you say, they remain on the list and they are the ideal testing combos.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Nojo294 - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:55 AM)Bluezee Wrote: Just because something seems wrong does not mean it is.
This IMO is the largest factor of disagreements between members. Of course, certain results WILL not be accurate, but open mindedness is the key. In this case I completely support the idea behind M145 as the logic behind it is sound. Besides, who doesn't want to see a bouncing top take down some massive spinning object?
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Bluezee - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:57 AM)Nojo294 Wrote:(Dec. 30, 2010 4:55 AM)Bluezee Wrote: Just because something seems wrong does not mean it is.
This IMO is the largest factor of disagreements between members. Of course, certain results WILL not be accurate, but open mindedness is the key. In this case I completely support the idea behind M145 as the logic behind it is sound. Besides, who doesn't want to see a bouncing top take down some massive spinning object?
Glad to see you are open-minded as we all should be Nojo. If you like, you can aid in the project as well. I have all the time in the world but I just don't have the necessary parts to test with at the moment.
RE: Using A Worn WD for Attacking and Destabilizing: Killer Bull 100WD - Mc Frown - Dec. 30, 2010
(Dec. 30, 2010 4:55 AM)Bluezee Wrote: What did Spin-Stealing have to do with any of this?LL Drago 100JB does not steal spin : \
Quote: Also, the point was not to surprise anyone with anything. It was to provide results and new options.Parts worn so they no longer serve their original purpose are illegal.
Quote: Maybe you should test more and talk less. Just because something seems wrong does not mean it is./cue obligatory Bluezee trash talk/
Quote: Also, as far as I'm concerned and from what I can see, Pegasis is still top-tier along with Ray so even if they may possibly be outclassed as you say, they remain on the list and they are the ideal testing combos.They are both outvlassed by Lightning, Meteo, Vulcan, and Gravity. Their positions are no longer deserved. And using a 145 height Attack combo against a 100 height Stamina combo isn't nearly as revealing as using, say, MF Vulcan Horuseus 85R2F.
I'd consider myself extremely open minded bro, but you present your combo like it's the veritable god-o'-bey, someone has to knock it down a rung. I really would prefer no one wate their money on Killer Gemios after some inconclusive and unrevealing testing. And I said I'd consider purchasing it and checking it out myself.