Jul. 12, 2017 2:21 PM
If one looks at the current competitive list, ze would find a variety of layers available to choose for stamina. While an option of choice is definitely more convenient to bladers with less access to a large array of beyblades and parts, a large variety of choices without any clear distinction between themselves makes it hard-tasking for those who have many of those choices available to make the best choice.
In the list, one can identify 5 layers that can be used for right spin stamina, which are Odin, Wyvern, Acid Anubis, Neptune, and Blaze Ragnaruk. With justification from a number of bladers, one can expect Alter Chronos and Guardian Kerbeus to potentially be on the list as well.
(Cut to exclusively include only the stamina portion)
Lets compare it to the MFB list.
We can see that the MFB list offers only two metal wheels for selection. Before that, Phantom was on the list. However, it was eliminated due to its inadequate defensive properties. This is akin to the situation in Burst, where Chaos was not included in the proposed list due to it having rather low burst defense.
The scenario in MFB was that with so little choices available, and both of them top tier defense wheels, there was not much questioning needed to distinct the both. Even if it were needed, the discussion threads and the abundance of readily available testing of the combos proved the differences between the two wheels quite clearly. Duo has more LAD due to its round shape, making it better against Dragooon and Genbull is heavier, making it harder to KO by semi aggressive combos like Wyvang Defense, etc.
However, in Burst, things get pretty complicated. You will realize that most of the testing is not immediately accessible on the forums, and most of the justification comes from tournament wins. And even if there is testing, we do not see testing against the same combos- we see blaze Ragnaruk put against Odin, and testing of alter Chronos being against Neptune. The lack of a standard for quantification of the layer's abilities makes it hard for everyone to fully understand how good a stamina layer really is. This problem is different from attack and defense; due to skill and preference being vital towards the effectiveness of the attack type used, it is subjective and qualitative. Therefore, quantitative measurement doesn't work for attack. But for stamina, due to the lack of skill involved, not much of the whole system is subjective. Being such an objective system, why aren't we trying to understand it to the most?
The lack of testing here is something I want to resolve. In this thread, I propose to all of its readers (provided that they have multiple stamina layers on the current tier list) to test their stamina layers against a set stamina combo to quantify the abilities of them.
Conventional Stamina: Standard stamina types which purely aim to outspin other beyblades..They use disks with outward weight distributions and tips which have low friction with the stadium floor, while providing a decent amount of balance.
A few setups of conventional stamina are : S/K/G Revolve/Yielding/Gyro/Defense
Destabilizers: these are special defense stamina hybrids whose main goal is to destabilize the opponent to outspin it. They have tips which have high balance properties, and have heavy, centrally weight distributed disks which provide a low center of gravity.Some destabilizer setups are: Heavy/gravity/2/4/6/8 G( i am a little doubtful about the god layer system disk but tthey are heavy and compact so i think they can provide destabilizers the rpm they need to destabilize the opponent so i mentioned them but testing is always welcome) D/O/At.
Defense/Stamina hybrids: these beyblades are balance types.they possess qualities of a defense type and a stamina type. These are mostly stamina oriented layers paired with defense oriented disks (in other word a disk which is more suited to defense), in addition to a stamina driver or a defensive driver like N/W H R/O. This can also be achieved by combining a stamina oriented layer, a stamina oriented disk with a defensive driver like N/W S O, or even a defensive layer, a defense oriented disk or stamina oriented disk and a stamina oriented driver. Put in practice, a sample of this would be K2 heavy/spread revolve. Common setups for such combos are: G/H/A/D/Y( i am not mentioning god system disks here since they need testing) revolve /defense/orbit/yeilding.
Note: alot of parts in burst are good for both defense and stamina such as neptune/wyvern/odin so i am still not sure if something like neptune heavy orbit should be considred a stamina type or a defense/stamina hybrid.
Spin equalizing stamina: Stamina types which generally aim to outspin beyblades spinning in the opposite direction. Due to the constant spin equalization (or energy transfer) on contact between beyblades, such types generally attempt to retain rotational velocity when it is low. As such, these beyblades utilize tips with high precession and disks with high LAD properties in order to prevent the layers from scraping on the floor and a loss of rotational velocity. Examples of such setups are 2C/4G/Y/P/S At/R.
Stallers: Aggressive stamina types which attempt to avoid contact for the most of the battle until the ending stages, in which they destabilize the weakened stationary moving beyblades to gain an outspin. Such beyblades are made up of wheels and disks with high weight distribution, while also having flat tips to move around the stadium to avoid contact. For example, S/Y/K A/Z/a are found on typical tornado stallers.
Don't hesitate to test- this thread is aimed to gather as much testing as we can so that we can gain a better understanding of how the stamina layers stack up to a specific purpose!
(I will be posting tests I have done today shortly. Feel free to discuss on this topic.)
Conventional stamina
Spin equalizing stamina
-
Destabilizers
Tornado Stallers
-
Defense-Stamina hybrids
Again, do feel free to test! Stamina testing may be tedious, but 20 rounds are definitely recommended. (unless the best layers can be distinctly identified, but even then just do 20 rounds if you can.) Remember to use standard procedure!
Thanks guys!
Credits to Blader for providing a clear characterization of the purposes of stamina types.
Current issue
In the list, one can identify 5 layers that can be used for right spin stamina, which are Odin, Wyvern, Acid Anubis, Neptune, and Blaze Ragnaruk. With justification from a number of bladers, one can expect Alter Chronos and Guardian Kerbeus to potentially be on the list as well.
(Cut to exclusively include only the stamina portion)
(Jun. 08, 2017 1:18 PM)SUGOI-KONICHEWA Wrote: [ -> ]@[BurstMaster] Here's the list
Stamina:
Odin/Neptune/Acid Anubis/Wyvern/Blaze Ragnaruk Heavy/Gravity/Spread/Knuckle/Yell Defense/Revolve
Lets compare it to the MFB list.
Quote:STAMINA
Duo
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) W145 (WD/EWD)
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) (TH170/230) (D/SD/TB)
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SR200 TB
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) B:D
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 160 PD
- Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) SA165[Normal] EWD
- MF(-M/-H) Duo (Cancer/Cygnus/Hades) 230 MB
Genbull
- Genbull Genbull (SR200/TH170) TB
We can see that the MFB list offers only two metal wheels for selection. Before that, Phantom was on the list. However, it was eliminated due to its inadequate defensive properties. This is akin to the situation in Burst, where Chaos was not included in the proposed list due to it having rather low burst defense.
The scenario in MFB was that with so little choices available, and both of them top tier defense wheels, there was not much questioning needed to distinct the both. Even if it were needed, the discussion threads and the abundance of readily available testing of the combos proved the differences between the two wheels quite clearly. Duo has more LAD due to its round shape, making it better against Dragooon and Genbull is heavier, making it harder to KO by semi aggressive combos like Wyvang Defense, etc.
However, in Burst, things get pretty complicated. You will realize that most of the testing is not immediately accessible on the forums, and most of the justification comes from tournament wins. And even if there is testing, we do not see testing against the same combos- we see blaze Ragnaruk put against Odin, and testing of alter Chronos being against Neptune. The lack of a standard for quantification of the layer's abilities makes it hard for everyone to fully understand how good a stamina layer really is. This problem is different from attack and defense; due to skill and preference being vital towards the effectiveness of the attack type used, it is subjective and qualitative. Therefore, quantitative measurement doesn't work for attack. But for stamina, due to the lack of skill involved, not much of the whole system is subjective. Being such an objective system, why aren't we trying to understand it to the most?
The lack of testing here is something I want to resolve. In this thread, I propose to all of its readers (provided that they have multiple stamina layers on the current tier list) to test their stamina layers against a set stamina combo to quantify the abilities of them.
Characteristics and purposes of stamina layers
Stamina layers, albeit with all their differences, have similarities. They are rather round to provide minimal leverage for other layers, so that less force can be exerted on them and prevent deceleration of rotational velocity. They also have an outward distribution of weight so to decrease its deceleration of rotational velocity. In today's burst metagame, they also have to be not easily burst, i.e. having tall teeth to prevent bursting and round shapes to disperse force.Conventional Stamina: Standard stamina types which purely aim to outspin other beyblades..They use disks with outward weight distributions and tips which have low friction with the stadium floor, while providing a decent amount of balance.
A few setups of conventional stamina are : S/K/G Revolve/Yielding/Gyro/Defense
Destabilizers: these are special defense stamina hybrids whose main goal is to destabilize the opponent to outspin it. They have tips which have high balance properties, and have heavy, centrally weight distributed disks which provide a low center of gravity.Some destabilizer setups are: Heavy/gravity/2/4/6/8 G( i am a little doubtful about the god layer system disk but tthey are heavy and compact so i think they can provide destabilizers the rpm they need to destabilize the opponent so i mentioned them but testing is always welcome) D/O/At.
Defense/Stamina hybrids: these beyblades are balance types.they possess qualities of a defense type and a stamina type. These are mostly stamina oriented layers paired with defense oriented disks (in other word a disk which is more suited to defense), in addition to a stamina driver or a defensive driver like N/W H R/O. This can also be achieved by combining a stamina oriented layer, a stamina oriented disk with a defensive driver like N/W S O, or even a defensive layer, a defense oriented disk or stamina oriented disk and a stamina oriented driver. Put in practice, a sample of this would be K2 heavy/spread revolve. Common setups for such combos are: G/H/A/D/Y( i am not mentioning god system disks here since they need testing) revolve /defense/orbit/yeilding.
Note: alot of parts in burst are good for both defense and stamina such as neptune/wyvern/odin so i am still not sure if something like neptune heavy orbit should be considred a stamina type or a defense/stamina hybrid.
Spin equalizing stamina: Stamina types which generally aim to outspin beyblades spinning in the opposite direction. Due to the constant spin equalization (or energy transfer) on contact between beyblades, such types generally attempt to retain rotational velocity when it is low. As such, these beyblades utilize tips with high precession and disks with high LAD properties in order to prevent the layers from scraping on the floor and a loss of rotational velocity. Examples of such setups are 2C/4G/Y/P/S At/R.
Stallers: Aggressive stamina types which attempt to avoid contact for the most of the battle until the ending stages, in which they destabilize the weakened stationary moving beyblades to gain an outspin. Such beyblades are made up of wheels and disks with high weight distribution, while also having flat tips to move around the stadium to avoid contact. For example, S/Y/K A/Z/a are found on typical tornado stallers.
Testing directions
In this thread, the best layer (or the minimal amount of viable layers) of each of the four purposes above (unless otherwise) will be tested for. Simply choose one of the purposes, select a setup for that combo, make an opponent which is not too strong, and test all six (or as many of the six) layers for competitive stamina against that particular combo. Do no hesitate to use banned layers such as Deathscyther and Dark Deathscyther for the opponent- the aim is to test which layer does best, not whether if it can beat the opponent. Bear in mind that the layers setup has to be better than the opponent- by increasing the win rates of the layers setup, we can better identify the differences between the abilities of the layers.
Example: for pure conventional stamina, an opponent such as Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive can be used. Armed and Survive do not provide the best stamina qualities, but they help to decrease the rate of bursting. This shifts the focus of the stamina layer testing to the outspinning aspect from simply winning against the combo, and better quantifying the abilities of the stamina layer. The end result is a combo with decent stamina qualities, something the best stamina layer on the specific setup can outspin/beat reliably while the weaker layers on the list will have some trouble consistently outspinning.Don't hesitate to test- this thread is aimed to gather as much testing as we can so that we can gain a better understanding of how the stamina layers stack up to a specific purpose!
(I will be posting tests I have done today shortly. Feel free to discuss on this topic.)
Conventional stamina
Spoiler (Click to View)
Opponent: Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
(Dark Deathscyther was chosen as it is banned in the current metagame. It has good stamina qualities, low recoil and significantly better burst defense than Deathscyther and Odin. This allows for more spin finishes on the part of the layer setup, thus focusing on the stamina comparison. Armed was chosen as it has a central weight distribution, and therefore low stamina. It weakens the combo so to allow for a better comparison of the layer setup results. On the other hand, the light weight increases burst defense, for stated reasons. Finally, Survive gives the combo decent stamina, but not too much that it will dominate over the layer setup.)
Setup: ______ Heavy Defense
(This is a staple stamina setup. Defense was chosen over Revolve due to its non-reliance on the free spinning wheel for precession, allowing for better consistency. This setup gives it an advantage over the opponent.)
For layer setup wins being of 1 round difference of another setup's wins, a mirror match will be conducted between the two setups, both using heavy revolve.
Layers involved as subjects:
Odin, Wyvern, Neptune, Acid Anubis, Rising Ragnaruk, Alter Chronos
Equipment:
B-09 Standard Attack Type Stadium
String Launcher Speed Version (I have more consistent launches with this launcher)
Procedure:
Unless stated otherwise, both beyblades are launched first alternatively. Both are launched regularly. 20 rounds.
Tests: (in descending order of win rate)
(Dark Deathscyther was chosen as it is banned in the current metagame. It has good stamina qualities, low recoil and significantly better burst defense than Deathscyther and Odin. This allows for more spin finishes on the part of the layer setup, thus focusing on the stamina comparison. Armed was chosen as it has a central weight distribution, and therefore low stamina. It weakens the combo so to allow for a better comparison of the layer setup results. On the other hand, the light weight increases burst defense, for stated reasons. Finally, Survive gives the combo decent stamina, but not too much that it will dominate over the layer setup.)
Setup: ______ Heavy Defense
(This is a staple stamina setup. Defense was chosen over Revolve due to its non-reliance on the free spinning wheel for precession, allowing for better consistency. This setup gives it an advantage over the opponent.)
For layer setup wins being of 1 round difference of another setup's wins, a mirror match will be conducted between the two setups, both using heavy revolve.
Layers involved as subjects:
Odin, Wyvern, Neptune, Acid Anubis, Rising Ragnaruk, Alter Chronos
Equipment:
B-09 Standard Attack Type Stadium
String Launcher Speed Version (I have more consistent launches with this launcher)
Procedure:
Unless stated otherwise, both beyblades are launched first alternatively. Both are launched regularly. 20 rounds.
Tests: (in descending order of win rate)
Spoiler (Click to View)
Odin Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
OHD: 17 wins (15 OS, 2 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 3 wins (3 OS) - 15%
Ties: 1 burst, 2 spin
Notes: Odin was clearly winning all the way. Not much to note here.
Acid Anubis Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
A2HD: 16 wins (12 OS, 4 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 4 wins (3 OS, 1 burst) - 20%
Ties: 6 burst ties
Notes: Acid Anubis had solid wins. Bursts happened near the end of the battles.
Wyvern Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
WHD: 13 wins (12 OS, 1 burst) - 65%
D2AS: 7 wins (5 OS, 2 bursts) - 35%
Ties: 1 burst tie, 2 burst ties
Notes: Wins were getting less apparent, down to a few rotations.
Alter Chronos Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
aCHD: 12 wins (7 OS, 4 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 8 wins (3 OS, 1 burst) - 20%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Alter Chronos had a visibly offensive edge by hitting Dark Deathscyther around the stadium. The bursts occurred when Alter Chronos got under Dark Deathscyther at the end of the battle, effectively executing upper attack and lifting the layer off of the beyblade. Its OSes were rather similar to that of Wyvern.
Blaze Ragnaruk Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
bRHD: 10 wins (8 OS, 2 bursts) - 50%
D2AS: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Again, late game bursts. OS of bR mostly occurred when it was able to get Survive to circle it. Most of the other times it would be unable to OS DD.
Neptune Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
bRHD: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
D2AS: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Basically, who was launched first would lose.
Tie-breakers/ further comparison (made when wins of a setup <,=,> wins of another setup by a margin of less than one win)Results:
Effectiveness of Stamina layer as a conventional stamina type
Odin> Acid Anubis> Alter Chronos> Wyvern> Neptune >= Blaze Ragnaruk
OHD: 17 wins (15 OS, 2 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 3 wins (3 OS) - 15%
Ties: 1 burst, 2 spin
Notes: Odin was clearly winning all the way. Not much to note here.
Acid Anubis Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
A2HD: 16 wins (12 OS, 4 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 4 wins (3 OS, 1 burst) - 20%
Ties: 6 burst ties
Notes: Acid Anubis had solid wins. Bursts happened near the end of the battles.
Wyvern Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
WHD: 13 wins (12 OS, 1 burst) - 65%
D2AS: 7 wins (5 OS, 2 bursts) - 35%
Ties: 1 burst tie, 2 burst ties
Notes: Wins were getting less apparent, down to a few rotations.
Alter Chronos Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
aCHD: 12 wins (7 OS, 4 bursts) - 85%
D2AS: 8 wins (3 OS, 1 burst) - 20%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Alter Chronos had a visibly offensive edge by hitting Dark Deathscyther around the stadium. The bursts occurred when Alter Chronos got under Dark Deathscyther at the end of the battle, effectively executing upper attack and lifting the layer off of the beyblade. Its OSes were rather similar to that of Wyvern.
Blaze Ragnaruk Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
bRHD: 10 wins (8 OS, 2 bursts) - 50%
D2AS: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Again, late game bursts. OS of bR mostly occurred when it was able to get Survive to circle it. Most of the other times it would be unable to OS DD.
Neptune Heavy Defense vs Dark Deathscyther Armed Survive
bRHD: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
D2AS: 10 wins (10 OS) - 50%
Ties: 1 spin tie
Notes: Basically, who was launched first would lose.
Tie-breakers/ further comparison (made when wins of a setup <,=,> wins of another setup by a margin of less than one win)
Spoiler (Click to View)
Odin Heavy Revolve vs Acid Anubis Heavy Revolve
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
OHR: 8 wins (7 OS, 1 burst) - 80%
A2HR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Odin was visibly rotating a tad more than Acid Anubis.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
OHR: 8 wins (7 OS, 1 burst) - 80%
A2HR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Same thing happened to what happened before the parts swap (don't ask me how that happened).
Full results
OHR: 16 wins (14 OS, 2 bursts) - 80%
A2HR: 4 wins (4 OS) - 20%
Conclusion: Odin is definitely better than Acid Anubis in terms of a pure stamina battle.
Alter Chronos Heavy Revolve vs Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
aCHR: 7 wins (2 OS, 5 bursts) - 70%
WHR: 3 wins (3 OS) - 30%
Ties: 0
Notes: My Wyvern doesn't seem to worn, so Alter Chronos seems to be able to burst Wyvern quite consistently. Even then, it is also able to OS Wyvern for a couple of times.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
aCHR: 8 wins (2 OS, 5 bursts, 1 KO) - 80%
WHR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Same thing basically happened. Alter Chronos was on the offensive.
Full results
aCHR: 15 wins (4 OS, 10 bursts, 1 KO) - 75%
WHR: 5 wins (5 OS) - 25%
Conclusion: Stamina wise, I'm not sure that Alter Chronos is definitely better than Wyvern. But due to the number of burst finishes caused by Alter Chronos, I would definitely feel safer if I was using Alter Chronos against Wyvern in a mirror stamina match in a tournament.
Blaze Ragnaruk Heavy Revolve vs Neptune Heavy Revolve
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
bRHR: 4 wins (3 OS, 1 KO) - 20%
NHR: 6 wins (6 OS) - 60%
Ties: 0
Notes: Stamina wise, Neptune was outspinning Blaze Ragnaruk solidly.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
bRHR: 7 wins (4 OS, 3 bursts) - 70%
NHR: 3 wins (3 OS) - 30%
Ties: 0
Notes: Seems like Blaze Ragnaruk has better Burst Defense than Neptune. (Or burst attack) But stamina wins wise, the Ragnaruk wins were less substantive than that of the Neptune ones.
Full results
bRHR: 11 wins (7 OS, 3 bursts, 1 KO) - 55%
NHR: 9 wins (9 OS) - 45%
Conclusion: This honestly could have gone either way. Though, honestly speaking, if we void it of Bursts, I would vote for Neptune in same spin stamina battles.
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
OHR: 8 wins (7 OS, 1 burst) - 80%
A2HR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Odin was visibly rotating a tad more than Acid Anubis.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
OHR: 8 wins (7 OS, 1 burst) - 80%
A2HR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Same thing happened to what happened before the parts swap (don't ask me how that happened).
Full results
OHR: 16 wins (14 OS, 2 bursts) - 80%
A2HR: 4 wins (4 OS) - 20%
Conclusion: Odin is definitely better than Acid Anubis in terms of a pure stamina battle.
Alter Chronos Heavy Revolve vs Wyvern Heavy Revolve
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
aCHR: 7 wins (2 OS, 5 bursts) - 70%
WHR: 3 wins (3 OS) - 30%
Ties: 0
Notes: My Wyvern doesn't seem to worn, so Alter Chronos seems to be able to burst Wyvern quite consistently. Even then, it is also able to OS Wyvern for a couple of times.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
aCHR: 8 wins (2 OS, 5 bursts, 1 KO) - 80%
WHR: 2 wins (2 OS) - 20%
Ties: 0
Notes: Same thing basically happened. Alter Chronos was on the offensive.
Full results
aCHR: 15 wins (4 OS, 10 bursts, 1 KO) - 75%
WHR: 5 wins (5 OS) - 25%
Conclusion: Stamina wise, I'm not sure that Alter Chronos is definitely better than Wyvern. But due to the number of burst finishes caused by Alter Chronos, I would definitely feel safer if I was using Alter Chronos against Wyvern in a mirror stamina match in a tournament.
Blaze Ragnaruk Heavy Revolve vs Neptune Heavy Revolve
Before parts swap (10 rounds)
bRHR: 4 wins (3 OS, 1 KO) - 20%
NHR: 6 wins (6 OS) - 60%
Ties: 0
Notes: Stamina wise, Neptune was outspinning Blaze Ragnaruk solidly.
After parts swap (10 rounds)
bRHR: 7 wins (4 OS, 3 bursts) - 70%
NHR: 3 wins (3 OS) - 30%
Ties: 0
Notes: Seems like Blaze Ragnaruk has better Burst Defense than Neptune. (Or burst attack) But stamina wins wise, the Ragnaruk wins were less substantive than that of the Neptune ones.
Full results
bRHR: 11 wins (7 OS, 3 bursts, 1 KO) - 55%
NHR: 9 wins (9 OS) - 45%
Conclusion: This honestly could have gone either way. Though, honestly speaking, if we void it of Bursts, I would vote for Neptune in same spin stamina battles.
Effectiveness of Stamina layer as a conventional stamina type
Odin> Acid Anubis> Alter Chronos> Wyvern> Neptune >= Blaze Ragnaruk
-
Destabilizers
Spoiler (Click to View)
Opponent: Odin ( this Odin is not the one I used for my conventional stamina testing) Heavy Revolve
(A staple stamina combo. Odin, through testing in this thread and tournament experience, has high stamina properties. Also, tournament experience has found its burst defense and ko defense properties to be above average. Heavy's weight increases its ko defense. Revolve has high stamina, but does not have good destabilization defense. This allows for good comparison between the stamina layer setups, on the ability to actually outspin the opponent.)
Setup: _____ 4Glaive Atomic
(4Glaive has heavy weight, balanced weight distribution and a low center of gravity, increasing its ko defense and overall balance properties. Atomic as a bottom can resist toppling till the last few rotations, making it a solid choice for beyblades focusing and destabilizing others while not being destabilized themselves. Its aggression helps with knocking the opponent off balance.
Layers tested:
Wyvern, Neptune, Odin (I have two), Acid Anubis, Blaze Ragnaruk, Alter Chronos
Equipment:
B-09 standard attack type stadium
String launcher speed version
Procedure: Beyblades launched first alternatively. Destabilizer banked, Odin regular launched.
Tests: (ascending order of win rate)
Wyvern 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve
W4GAt: 1 win (1 KO) - 10 %
OHR: 9 wins (5 OS, 4 bursts) - 90%
Notes: The ko was a snipe, but I counted that. Basically, Wyvern couldn't really destabilize Odin, nor could it OS it. My Odin went nuts today and started a bursting spree, but oh well.
Neptune 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve
N4GAt: 1 win (1 OS) - 10 %
OHR: 9 wins (2 OS, 2 KO, 5 bursts) - 90%
Notes: Yet again, Neptune didn't really have that much destabilization ability. It didn't have enough stamina to outspin Odin.
[b][u]Odin 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b]
O4GAt: 5 wins (3 OS, 2 Bursts) - 50 %
OHR: 5 wins (1 OS, 4 bursts) - 50%
Notes: Odin had much more stamina this time. However, it didn't really destabilize OHR, and its burst resistance ability was weaker when on Atomic than on Revolve.
[u][u]Acid Anubis 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/u]
A24GAt: 5 wins (3 OS, 2 bursts) - 50 %
OHR: 5 wins (4 OS, 1 burst) - 50%
Notes: Not really much destabilization properties with A2 either. However, the burst resistance on Acid Anubis was definitely better than the previous Odin test.
[b][u][b][u][b][u]Blaze Ragnaruk 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b]
bR4GAt: 6 wins (3 OS, 3 bursts) - 60 %
OHR: 4 wins (1 OS, 2KO, 1 burst) - 40%
Notes: Saw some legitimate destabilizing action here. Blaze Ragnaruk would push Odin out of the center, and Odin would start circling and precess on its Revolve. Its stamina quickly depleted and resulted in an OS for Blaze Ragnaruk. Note that there's a spot on my At which is a bit flat (manufacturing error) so that resulted in some mid game imbalance and OS losses for Blaze Ragnaruk.
[b][u][b][u][b][u][b][u]Alter Chronos 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b]
aC4GAt: 9 wins (3 OS., 1KO, 5 bursts) - 90 %
OHR: 1 wins (4 os, 1 burst) - 50%
Notes: Alter Chronos was on fire. It could consistently push Odin out of the center and do what Ragnaruk did in the previous test. Note that 2 of the bursts were actually late game bursts, meaning Odin was on the verge of falling over on Heavy before it was bursted by Alter Chronos.
Results:
Wyvern <Neptune< Odin< Acid Anubis (burst priority)< Blaze Ragnaruk< Alter Chronos
This can be explained clearly. Blaze Ragnaruk and Alter Chronos are on the heavier spectrum of layers, meaning that they require more force to be moved. With low recoil, they don't move much when in battle with Odin, while Odin was knocked out of the center pretty much. They both have great teeth, better than the ones of the prior layers, resulting in less burst losses compared to Odin and Acid Anubis. I believe Alter Chronos mainly won because of its weight and width - it's reasonably more heavier than Blaze Ragnaruk, and its diameter covered the whole of Glaive. Having great outwards weight distribution and high KO defense, it could hold its ground against Odin excellently and defeat it by knocking it around, destabilizing it.
(A staple stamina combo. Odin, through testing in this thread and tournament experience, has high stamina properties. Also, tournament experience has found its burst defense and ko defense properties to be above average. Heavy's weight increases its ko defense. Revolve has high stamina, but does not have good destabilization defense. This allows for good comparison between the stamina layer setups, on the ability to actually outspin the opponent.)
Setup: _____ 4Glaive Atomic
(4Glaive has heavy weight, balanced weight distribution and a low center of gravity, increasing its ko defense and overall balance properties. Atomic as a bottom can resist toppling till the last few rotations, making it a solid choice for beyblades focusing and destabilizing others while not being destabilized themselves. Its aggression helps with knocking the opponent off balance.
Layers tested:
Wyvern, Neptune, Odin (I have two), Acid Anubis, Blaze Ragnaruk, Alter Chronos
Equipment:
B-09 standard attack type stadium
String launcher speed version
Procedure: Beyblades launched first alternatively. Destabilizer banked, Odin regular launched.
Tests: (ascending order of win rate)
Spoiler (Click to View)
Wyvern 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve
W4GAt: 1 win (1 KO) - 10 %
OHR: 9 wins (5 OS, 4 bursts) - 90%
Notes: The ko was a snipe, but I counted that. Basically, Wyvern couldn't really destabilize Odin, nor could it OS it. My Odin went nuts today and started a bursting spree, but oh well.
Neptune 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve
N4GAt: 1 win (1 OS) - 10 %
OHR: 9 wins (2 OS, 2 KO, 5 bursts) - 90%
Notes: Yet again, Neptune didn't really have that much destabilization ability. It didn't have enough stamina to outspin Odin.
[b][u]Odin 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b]
O4GAt: 5 wins (3 OS, 2 Bursts) - 50 %
OHR: 5 wins (1 OS, 4 bursts) - 50%
Notes: Odin had much more stamina this time. However, it didn't really destabilize OHR, and its burst resistance ability was weaker when on Atomic than on Revolve.
[u][u]Acid Anubis 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/u]
A24GAt: 5 wins (3 OS, 2 bursts) - 50 %
OHR: 5 wins (4 OS, 1 burst) - 50%
Notes: Not really much destabilization properties with A2 either. However, the burst resistance on Acid Anubis was definitely better than the previous Odin test.
[b][u][b][u][b][u]Blaze Ragnaruk 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b]
bR4GAt: 6 wins (3 OS, 3 bursts) - 60 %
OHR: 4 wins (1 OS, 2KO, 1 burst) - 40%
Notes: Saw some legitimate destabilizing action here. Blaze Ragnaruk would push Odin out of the center, and Odin would start circling and precess on its Revolve. Its stamina quickly depleted and resulted in an OS for Blaze Ragnaruk. Note that there's a spot on my At which is a bit flat (manufacturing error) so that resulted in some mid game imbalance and OS losses for Blaze Ragnaruk.
[b][u][b][u][b][u][b][u]Alter Chronos 4Glaive Atomic vs Odin Heavy Revolve[/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b][/u][/b]
aC4GAt: 9 wins (3 OS., 1KO, 5 bursts) - 90 %
OHR: 1 wins (4 os, 1 burst) - 50%
Notes: Alter Chronos was on fire. It could consistently push Odin out of the center and do what Ragnaruk did in the previous test. Note that 2 of the bursts were actually late game bursts, meaning Odin was on the verge of falling over on Heavy before it was bursted by Alter Chronos.
Results:
Wyvern <Neptune< Odin< Acid Anubis (burst priority)< Blaze Ragnaruk< Alter Chronos
This can be explained clearly. Blaze Ragnaruk and Alter Chronos are on the heavier spectrum of layers, meaning that they require more force to be moved. With low recoil, they don't move much when in battle with Odin, while Odin was knocked out of the center pretty much. They both have great teeth, better than the ones of the prior layers, resulting in less burst losses compared to Odin and Acid Anubis. I believe Alter Chronos mainly won because of its weight and width - it's reasonably more heavier than Blaze Ragnaruk, and its diameter covered the whole of Glaive. Having great outwards weight distribution and high KO defense, it could hold its ground against Odin excellently and defeat it by knocking it around, destabilizing it.
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Defense-Stamina hybrids
Again, do feel free to test! Stamina testing may be tedious, but 20 rounds are definitely recommended. (unless the best layers can be distinctly identified, but even then just do 20 rounds if you can.) Remember to use standard procedure!
Thanks guys!
Credits to
.