Drain Fafnir, Tornado Wyvern, and Atomic Testing
[Image: QG4LvWJ.jpg]
BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH MORE TESTING
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Combos tested:
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy
Atomic
Tornado Wyvern Heavy
Atomic
They battled against these:
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Orbit
Neptune Heavy Revolve
Lost Longinus Quarter Hold
Stuff I used to test these:
- B-09 Beystadium (duh)
- Light Launcher w/Long Winder (with a beylogger plus on top for extra grip)
- Proto Launcher L (to more consistently get weak launches)
The right spin bey was always launched first, followed by the weakly-launched left spin bey.
Benchmark L2 tests because CONSISTANCYYYYYYYYY:
Lost Longinus Quarter Hold vs. Dark Deathsyther Heavy Orbit
L2QH - 8/20 Wins (%)
D2HO - 12/20 Wins (%)
And here are the tests themselves! (~now with nifty little spoiler tags so as not to clutter your reading experience~)
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Orbit
dF2VH - 12/20 Wins (60%)
D2HO - 8/20 Wins (40%)
Fafnir won almost exclusively by bursting, but once or twice it would outspin D2? SOMEHOW? Idk, but I'm glad it actually kinda works against D2. I can see this being a good alternative to Minoboros, considering the only way to get it is in either an expensive reshuffle set or an expensive layer set.
dF2VH - 3/10 Wins (30%)
NHR - 7/10 Wins (70%)
On the other hand, Neptune did pretty well against it, probably because it's so freaking smooth.
dF2VH - 7/20 Wins (35%)
K2HAt - 13/20 Wins (65%)
Atomic wasn't all that different preforming to Orbit from what I saw. There was still a little movement, but it was more due to the width of the ball as opposed to Orbit, where it would hit the ridges around the ball and go insane, so I think the stamina would be about the same to, but the free-spinning ring makes me thing if you combined it with Polish, you could get some crazy LAD. Other than that, Fafnir had a hard time fighting K2. Even then, K2 had always lost two or there clicks after it won, so it's a shaky counter.
tWHAT - 7/10 Wins (70%)
L2QH - 3/10 Wins (30%)
I would have tested this against other attack types, but besides Longinus, my only other viable attack layers are a worn-down Valkyrie and a Blue Xcalibur that is permanently on the shelf because it broke and I didn't want to throw it out :')
To be fair though, Tornado Wyvern is a fairly effective L2 counter (prolly cuz of that free spinning ring lol), but it's easy to knock off balance, so putting Quarter, Polish, or maybe even Yell could help it with it's balance? Other than that though, the only other thing of note here is that the only reason this was a 10-battle test is because for every one round where there was a decisive victor, there were about five more battles where the outcome was a tie. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH-
Overall, I think Drain Fafnir could use a little more testing to see if it's actually any good, but as of writing this, I think it'll be a decent D2 counter at least. Atomic could also stand to see more testing, but from what i've seen while playing around with it, even if it's not as good as Orbit, it's still a passable defense driver. Tornado Wyvern is the only one I'm truly skeptical about. The fact it got off balance so much makes me question if the free ring will ultimately save it's performance when it's up against traditional attack-types.
(May. 06, 2017 10:09 PM)TrainiacJ Wrote: [ -> ]Drain Fafnir, Tornado Wyvern, and Atomic Testing
[Image: QG4LvWJ.jpg]
BACK AT IT AGAIN WITH MORE TESTING ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Combos tested:
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold
Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Atomic
Tornado Wyvern Heavy Atomic
They battled against these:
Dark Deathscyther Heavy Orbit
Neptune Heavy Revolve
Lost Longinus Quarter Hold
Stuff I used to test these:
- B-09 Beystadium (duh)
- Light Launcher w/Long Winder (with a beylogger plus on top for extra grip)
- Proto Launcher L (to more consistently get weak launches)
The right spin bey was always launched first, followed by the weakly-launched left spin bey.
Benchmark L2 tests because CONSISTANCYYYYYYYYY:
Lost Longinus Quarter Hold vs. Dark Deathsyther Heavy Orbit
L2QH - 8/20 Wins (%)
D2HO - 12/20 Wins (%)
And here are the tests themselves! (~now with nifty little spoiler tags so as not to clutter your reading experience~)
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Dark Deathscyther Heavy Orbit
dF2VH - 12/20 Wins (60%)
D2HO - 8/20 Wins (40%)
Fafnir won almost exclusively by bursting, but once or twice it would outspin D2? SOMEHOW? Idk, but I'm glad it actually kinda works against D2. I can see this being a good alternative to Minoboros, considering the only way to get it is in either an expensive reshuffle set or an expensive layer set.
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Neptune Heavy Revolve
dF2VH - 3/10 Wins (30%)
NHR - 7/10 Wins (70%)
On the other hand, Neptune did pretty well against it, probably because it's so freaking smooth.
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Atomic
dF2VH - 7/20 Wins (35%)
K2HAt - 13/20 Wins (65%)
Atomic wasn't all that different preforming to Orbit from what I saw. There was still a little movement, but it was more due to the width of the ball as opposed to Orbit, where it would hit the ridges around the ball and go insane, so I think the stamina would be about the same to, but the free-spinning ring makes me thing if you combined it with Polish, you could get some crazy LAD. Other than that, Fafnir had a hard time fighting K2. Even then, K2 had always lost two or there clicks after it won, so it's a shaky counter.
Tornado Wyvern Heavy Atomic vs. Lost Longinus Quarter Hold
tWHAT - 7/10 Wins (70%)
L2QH - 3/10 Wins (30%)
I would have tested this against other attack types, but besides Longinus, my only other viable attack layers are a worn-down Valkyrie and a Blue Xcalibur that is permanently on the shelf because it broke and I didn't want to throw it out :')
To be fair though, Tornado Wyvern is a fairly effective L2 counter (prolly cuz of that free spinning ring lol), but it's easy to knock off balance, so putting Quarter, Polish, or maybe even Yell could help it with it's balance? Other than that though, the only other thing of note here is that the only reason this was a 10-battle test is because for every one round where there was a decisive victor, there were about five more battles where the outcome was a tie. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH-
Overall, I think Drain Fafnir could use a little more testing to see if it's actually any good, but as of writing this, I think it'll be a decent D2 counter at least. Atomic could also stand to see more testing, but from what i've seen while playing around with it, even if it's not as good as Orbit, it's still a passable defense driver. Tornado Wyvern is the only one I'm truly skeptical about. The fact it got off balance so much makes me question if the free ring will ultimately save it's performance when it's up against traditional attack-types.
Yh I'd say fafnir does need some more testing as so far these tests have been run with hold but there could be another driver more suited to fafnir with which it hasn't been tested so in that respect u are right. Still thanks for the tests anyway cos it still shows that perhaps the layer is not as effective as the hype behind it before.
I still have some hopes for Drain Fafnir. Mine will be here in a couple of days and Ill do some testing for it. Hopefully it'll be a big star at Anime North hah.
Perhaps try that Drain Fafnir combo against D2 Heavy Defense? From what I've heard that's what was able to shut down L2 Hold combos.
Also replace Atomic with Orbit on the K2 and Tornado Wyvern combos so we can see if Atomic any better than Orbit directly.
I kinds wanna see how to does against fast combos that directly hit the bey. It would be a good test to see how much could the gimmick do to help it from bursting.
dF would probably do better on Revolve due to its spin equalization capabilities.
Thanks a YJA lot for it!. Can you do dFGAt vs some top-tiers?
Atleast from @[ZYeYO]'s video of dF. It seemed it's good against attack. So I was interested in some attack tests vs dF too. Also if possible try dFKX.
HONK HONK HERE COMES THE TESTING BUS
HOP ON BOARD, KIDDOS
Tornado Wyvern Heavy Orbit vs. Lost Longinus Quarter Hold
tWHO - 9/20 Wins (45%)
L2QH - 11/20 Wins (55%)
The layer is still super unbalanced, so the next two tests are basically me trying to fix that.
Tornado Wyvern Polish Atomic vs. Lost Longinus Quarter Hold
tWPAT - 10/20 Wins (50%)
L2QH - 10/20 Wins (50%)
Eeeeh, it kinda worked? The 50/50 split makes me wary though. Maybe Yell would work better.
tWPY - 3/10 Wins (30%)
L2QH - 7/10 Wins (70%)
I also tried out Heavy Revolve and Polish Revolve, but Revolve was too sharp to stay balanced, and I concluded that tW would be no good on it.
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Dark Deathsyther Heavy Atomic
dF2VH - 3/10 Wins (30%)
D2HAt - 7/10 Wins (30%)
Whenever it looked like there was going to be a tie, D2 would use Atomic's LAD to it's advantage.
I would have tested Atomic's performance against Defense, but I don't actually own a Takara Defense, so... :P
Drain Fafnir 2-Vortex Hold vs. Kaiser Kerbeus Heavy Orbit
dF2VH - 8/20 Wins (40%)
K2HO - 12/20 Wins (60%)
There were a lot of of too-close-too-call ties in this test.
Interestingly, in these dF tests, there were a couple rounds where i accidentally launched dF too hard, but it actually worked better than a weak launch. As a follow up, I tested this;
Drain Fafnir Quarter Xtreme vs. Dark Deathsyther Heavy Orbit
dFQX - 4/10 Wins (40%)
D2HO - 6/10 Wins (60%)
I used the Light Launcher L with the blue winder it came with for this test to get a more powerful launch (and also because i don't have another long winder lol). Xtreme worked better than I thought it would, but it's poor stamina was holding it back.
I also tried out Weight, Revolve, Atomic, and even Needle and Liner on dF, but they just couldn't get good enough stamina to win against D2. I think the reason it wasn't working is because it isn't as heavy as L2, so maybe once the Metal God Chip comes out dF would be a viable D2 counter? Idk, someone else should try this out, maybe they'll have better luck. :P
Question: is there any particular reason you're using Quarter and 2Vortex on the Hold combos and not a Disk with more LAD like Spread/Ring/Infinity? Since Left-Spin Hold is primarily designed to outspin opponents, it would make sense to use one of those to get a few more rotations if Hold falls over, and that might be why you're struggling to outspin Heavy Orbit (though you may just have a bad Hold? idk). Also I'd like to see how something like dFS/R/IR performs.
If it's possible, I'd like to see some mirror matches of Atomic vs Orbit to see which has better Stamina, something like WHO vs WHAt (yes this is a serious request not an acronym joke).
Both of my Holds spin pretty freely, and 2V was heavy and synced well with Fafnir's shape. I think Quarter is a viable disc, and since it has the same driver-guarding shape as Armed and the weight of Heavy/Gravity, theoretically it could be the best of both worlds? Idk, I just like using it.
Personally, I'm not too big on Spread, whenever I use it, I feel like the bey I'm using is going to topple over. Ring and Infinity feel like risky options too considering they burst more often. (not to mention my only infinity is the red plated one and there's no way I'm going to risk scratching it
)
I probably could do an Atomic/Orbit Mirror Match though, but since I don't own any Basic Wyverns, I'll have to do it with D2. No fun acronyms here, haha
I personally only find Ring useful on hyper-aggressive attack types like V/V2.R.X. It's OWD helps give the bey the boost in stamina that ironically makes it hit harder, and more often. On actual stamina combos, it's OWD is it's downfall, because like you said, the risk of bursting is significantly higher, and stamina types aren't particularly known for their burst resistance. Infinity is just a slightly worse Ring. I wouldn't recommend it.
From the looks of it, tW's achilles heel is it's balance, not so much it's mediocre teeth. There's not really much you can do about that outside of maybe Quarter, if it has a synergistic weight distribution, and even then it's just going to move out of position because of how the Burst mechanism works.
ᵗᵂ ʳᵉᵐᶦᶰᵈˢ ᵐᵉ ᵒᶠ ᵃ ᶜᵉʳᵗᵃᶦᶰ ᴹᵉᵗᵃᶫ ˢᵉʳᶦᵉˢ ʷʰᵉᵉᶫ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᶜᵒᵐᵖᶫᵉᵗᵉᶫʸ ᵇʳᵒᵏᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ᵐᵉᵗᵃ ʷʰᵉᶰ ᶦᵗ ᶜᵃᵐᵉ ᵒᵘᵗ ᵉᵛᵉᶰ ᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰ ᶦᵗ ʷᵃˢ ᶦᶰᵗᵉᶰᵗᶦᵒᶰᵃᶫᶫʸ ᵘᶰᵇᵃᶫᵃᶰᶜᵉᵈ
(May. 08, 2017 12:43 AM)ToxicAtom Wrote: [ -> ]From the looks of it, tW's achilles heel is it's balance, not so much it's mediocre teeth. There's not really much you can do about that outside of maybe Quarter, if it has a synergistic weight distribution, and even then it's just going to move out of position because of how the Burst mechanism works.
Maybe once the Metal God Chip is released the centralized weight it would provide would make it viable. But yeah, the lack of balance is a huge downside.
(May. 08, 2017 12:43 AM)ToxicAtom Wrote: [ -> ]ᵗᵂ ʳᵉᵐᶦᶰᵈˢ ᵐᵉ ᵒᶠ ᵃ ᶜᵉʳᵗᵃᶦᶰ ᴹᵉᵗᵃᶫ ˢᵉʳᶦᵉˢ ʷʰᵉᵉᶫ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᶜᵒᵐᵖᶫᵉᵗᵉᶫʸ ᵇʳᵒᵏᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ᵐᵉᵗᵃ ʷʰᵉᶰ ᶦᵗ ᶜᵃᵐᵉ ᵒᵘᵗ ᵉᵛᵉᶰ ᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰ ᶦᵗ ʷᵃˢ ᶦᶰᵗᵉᶰᵗᶦᵒᶰᵃᶫᶫʸ ᵘᶰᵇᵃᶫᵃᶰᶜᵉᵈ
you're gonna need to be more specific than that, theres too many metal wheels that fit that bill haha
(May. 08, 2017 3:42 AM)TrainiacJ Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 08, 2017 12:43 AM)ToxicAtom Wrote: [ -> ]From the looks of it, tW's achilles heel is it's balance, not so much it's mediocre teeth. There's not really much you can do about that outside of maybe Quarter, if it has a synergistic weight distribution, and even then it's just going to move out of position because of how the Burst mechanism works.
Maybe once the Metal God Chip is released the centralized weight it would provide would make it viable. But yeah, the lack of balance is a huge downside.
(May. 08, 2017 12:43 AM)ToxicAtom Wrote: [ -> ]ᵗᵂ ʳᵉᵐᶦᶰᵈˢ ᵐᵉ ᵒᶠ ᵃ ᶜᵉʳᵗᵃᶦᶰ ᴹᵉᵗᵃᶫ ˢᵉʳᶦᵉˢ ʷʰᵉᵉᶫ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᶜᵒᵐᵖᶫᵉᵗᵉᶫʸ ᵇʳᵒᵏᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ᵐᵉᵗᵃ ʷʰᵉᶰ ᶦᵗ ᶜᵃᵐᵉ ᵒᵘᵗ ᵉᵛᵉᶰ ᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰ ᶦᵗ ʷᵃˢ ᶦᶰᵗᵉᶰᵗᶦᵒᶰᵃᶫᶫʸ ᵘᶰᵇᵃᶫᵃᶰᶜᵉᵈ
you're gonna need to be more specific than that, theres too many metal wheels that fit that bill haha
Hopefully yeah. It all depends if the metal chip is heavy enough to do the job.
And I think they mean the Duo wheel from Duo Uranus. Almost recoil free and either well balanced or so unbalanced it hops with any tip.
(May. 08, 2017 4:46 AM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 08, 2017 3:42 AM)TrainiacJ Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe once the Metal God Chip is released the centralized weight it would provide would make it viable. But yeah, the lack of balance is a huge downside.
you're gonna need to be more specific than that, theres too many metal wheels that fit that bill haha
Hopefully yeah. It all depends if the metal chip is heavy enough to do the job.
And I think they mean the Duo wheel from Duo Uranus. Almost recoil free and either well balanced or so unbalanced it hops with any tip.
He was talking about Basalt.
(May. 08, 2017 8:26 AM)Ultra Wrote: [ -> ] (May. 08, 2017 4:46 AM)MonoDragon Wrote: [ -> ]I think they mean the Duo wheel from Duo Uranus. Almost recoil free and either well balanced or so unbalanced it hops with any tip.
He was talking about Basalt.
This guy got it. But we're getting off-track here.
Sorry for posting again but can someone try dFGAt? Against Odin, D2 and D? Maybe W and N. In theory it seems very good due to LAD of Atomic
I just get my Tornado Wyvern and I find it better with its own disk then heavy. with heavy its really easy to get it off balance but with 4G its harder and spin longer then Heavy.
I need to do more test but from what I've seen I'm confident to use tW.4G.At in tournament more then tW.H.At
from my preliminary test, tW.4G.At Vs VTX, Tornado Wyvern losing an average of 0.5 clicks and win
tW.H.At Vs VTX: Tornado Wyvern losing an average of 3.5 clicks and lose.
I've been procrastinating 4 too long, I've only done free play instead of serious testing but it's enough to know what it's strengths and weaknesses. tW's shape isn't the case for its bad stamina, it's its gimmick. The free spinning ring does work and it does help cushion some attacks, but it uses stamina when the gimmick works. When against dF.P.At it still loses when dF is handspun. When right spin beys are starting to lose spin the excessive contact with the free spinning ring destroys tW's stamina.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but tW's teeth are pretty bad, right? Does the free spinning part make up for this well enough? Or is it still fairly easy to burst?
It's teeth are pretty bad but still better than W2 teeth. It's defense against attackers like VKX is decent and it can OS it pretty consistently, but it still can burst when it takes too many direct hits. tW's weakness is a bey attacking it directly towards it's center, the gimmick only really helps if the bey is slightly attacking a 1 side more than the other.
I can do some testing with Atomic. Does anyone have any particular requests?
Also in regards to the DF Polish Atomic combos, Neptune ___Revolve beat it pretty consistently. Also A2 Spread Revolve beats it consistently. These combos were used heavily at Anime North.
dont use the 2 disc
8 disc is better
drain fafnir 8 vortex orbit
atomic isnt as good as orbit
(Jun. 04, 2017 2:10 PM)MPZLShadow Wrote: [ -> ]dont use the 2 disc
8 disc is better
drain fafnir 8 vortex orbit
atomic isnt as good as orbit
Drain Fafnir Polish Atomic is like ultimate L.A.D
why there's no testing done but mostly many impression or statement from different players and there not in the same way of thought... first what does the disk 8 is better than 2?! have we know the weight or any testing with it to get that conclusion?!
personnaly I don't have any opinion on the performance of the new disks because I have to test it. I just get some in the RBV6. from my primary test I didn't notice that much different between their performance. I need further test. I wanted that experimented players from AN wich there have tested it and get some experience on it talk about their impression or testing of these parts.
Would a dF tornado stall combo be successful?
(Jun. 04, 2017 3:05 PM)SUGOI-KONICHEWA Wrote: [ -> ]Would a dF tornado stall combo be successful?
I personally don't think so. I haven't been a fan of Tornado stallers in burst.
My experience with DF is more of the feeling of a tank, not a Tornado Staller.