Hello everyone, I'm presenting this to you all out of my own free will, and without the consent of the rest of the staff.
Lately things around here seem to have gotten a little out of control, what with our rules and enforcements being all over the place. Surely this is nothing new, but I think its been especially bad in the past week or so.
So I'm bringing this up for everyone to see because I get the feeling I'm not the only one who's noticed it, but that I'm the only one really willing to speak up about it.
Personally as a staff member I have been feeling somewhat conflicted lately, and have considered stepping down. My reasoning for this is because right now I feel my own views don't match up with the views of the overall administration.
The rules we have in place right now are honestly very vague and debatable, and rarely are they enforced. I am not trying to say that I have not been one of the few to contribute to the problem, because I most certainly am, but I think we are in need of change here and fast. I think this site will meet the same fate that all of the beyblade sites before it have if we don't do something to correct the issue.
So having said that, I'm leaving it up to you guys. Brad has said that he wants this forum to be run as a democracy where the users have a say in every major decision, so here's your chance. I've tried speaking with Brad personally about this and made little to no headway, so I figure if he won't listen to one of the forum's more active members, perhaps he'll listen to all of us.
What do you think? What are the problems? What do we need to do to change them? How can we do a better job as an administrative team? Don't exclude me from any of this, I know I have had my fair share of questionable behavior. I want to help make this site a desirable place for people to come to and that can't happen without everyone else.
So have at it.
i talked to you in im about this
i agree
YA! I too think there needs to be some changes..
rkayd Wrote:YA!...?
This is not the sort of feedback I was looking for.
Please don't post unless you have something constructive to contribute. Thanks.
Lately I have been getting quite frustrated; with members constantly asking the same question, making unnecessary topics when it can be asked in the Ask a Question topic, just in general piss you off, etc.
Saying this, it would probably be best to tighten it up a bit, not as much leniency. This way, the members that truly want to be members will be good, and the weeds will be rooted out.
I think that the
Official Rules topic, since it was made in October of last year, will need changes due to whatever reason.
The Proper English rule can't really be enforced, I think- just too many people will insist on using improper english and I really do not think a ban is needed for that. But consistent posts where you can't even make out anything (just gibberish), I think it would be okay.
The constant same-question thing is really bugging me. It frustrates me to see the same question popup right as soon as it was answered.
Maybe for extremely important threads, like the new MFB thread, just delete anything that doesn't really pertain to the topic. It might seem a lot, but people DO want to read facts and such and not just constant things like 'ya i think thats kewl too yaya' etc.
I know I'm at fault too for not being a rolemodel etc, but it is quite hard with my impatience with some of the members (generally looking at annoying people, no beef with anyone in particular). It is difficult for me (and probably some or most of us) to
not jump down some kid's throat ready to mince them to bits and pieces because they are being an idiot etc.
Just a few cents of mine.
We do need some change. I've seen some people lash out at others who don't really deserve it. This hurts us more than anything.
What worries me is how we rarely have new members who last more than a week.
Hmm...well, I haven't been here for an incredibly long time, but I have noticed there are a lot of newbies who ask the same questions. I've done it, too. The amount of pages in the topics does have something to do with it, but it's also the member's fault. A lot of new members really don't know what to do, what not to do, where to ask questions, where to find [blank] information, etc.
Maybe, if/after the rules/guidelines are revised, they can be PM'd to new members upon the member's registration. I remember as soon as I registered, Brad sent me a PM. I don't know if it was an automatic thing or if Brad sent it himself...but if it was an automatic thing, couldn't a link to the new rules/guidelines be posted in the Welcome PM?
Hey guys, we have to deal with noobs. The more harsh we are now, the more we will get the elitist carp up hardcore stereotype. Unless we want that. Then we are doing really, really well.
Look, we don't have an obligation to answer these questions. The answers are out there and sometimes it's just plain stupid to see people not doing their own research. But if the goal is really just to you know, spread the knowledge of beyblade, make this site more accessible, then really, we have no other choice but to put up with stupidity.
I have to run the most indepth part of a forum made for Pokemon, Competitive Battle strategy. The amount of time, dedication, and math needed for that forum is higher than the average Pokemon player. After all, Pokemon is inherently played by 8 to 14 year olds. The amount of topics made each day that can be easily answered by google, the main page, or a Pokemon database is staggering. But, as the responsibity of the forum to grow Pokemon players, and not to shitfest them like Smogon, is our duty. It is our job to whether the repeated questions, the stupidity of people, and try to show them what they are doing wrong. Yes, the forum seems overly sweet. Yes, it is family friendly and the bannings are rather rare. But the model succeeds, at a high cost. The inherent cost is Moderator fatigue, which I believe Meteor Blue has suffered. There is only so much stupidity a person can take before they get tired, detached, and a bit vile. We've lost 5 moderators in the past 2 months that way. Not just not posting, or not visiting, but pure out resignation and the amount of work that's necessary.
I know we have to deal with a lot here. But we can't just ban people for stupidity. Not if we really want to nurture and grow beybladers here and not be considered elitist as carp. The most we can do is lock topics if they are in the wrong place, and continue answering the same question over and over again, (I do it daily for Pokemon, but it must be done.) Those who don't learn, refuse to learn, and instead insist that their way is better, fine. Hammer at them. Flame them. But you still need to try to foster their growth as both forum-goers and beybladers.
It wasn't long ago that some of the members here were horrible posters, and now they are at least respectable. But for those who are banned? How quick were we? Did we try PM'ing them, explaining what they did wrong? Did we show them exactly what to do, what not to do? Or did we say "get out", or "I don't like you", and expect them to change, even if they didn't know which part of them they had to change?
If this forum is meant for higher level players, who want to grow and are inherently smart, then fine, we're doing pretty good.
But if we really want to take care of the new players, we have to be more tolerant. We will get an influx of new players from MFB. Yes, some of them will be great, they will have the Spinster types, or the great hardcore hobby types. But most likely will get posters who are rather young, and this will be their first forum. If we are going to help these players, this level of treatment rather has to be toned down.
Yeah, I agree 100% with you Ryan. No forum can be perfect, but I'm sure that things here could be improved.
1. Be polite
Needs work from staff/members. This is probably my biggest concern. And yeah, I l know I'm not always Mr. Polite either, but It's something we could all address to make this place a lot more friendly.
Composer of Requiems Wrote:What worries me is how we rarely have new members who last more than a week.
I agree
I feel like new members get baned way to quickly. I understand that there breaking the rules, not reading through the topics before they ask questions and whatnot but i feel like alot of times people got baned even if its not permenently to easily.
Quote:But if we really want to take care of the new players, we have to be more tolerant. We will get an influx of new players from MFB. Yes, some of them will be great, they will have the Spinster types, or the great hardcore hobby types. But most likely will get posters who are rather young, and this will be their first forum. If we are going to help these players, this level of treatment rather has to be toned down.
I agree with this 100%
flashfox Wrote:Hey guys, we have to deal with noobs. The more harsh we are now, the more we will get the elitist carp up hardcore stereotype. Unless we want that. Then we are doing really, really well.
I agree with this part of your post. I think we are a little too quick to jump all over new members who we need to keep in mind are probably young and are joining a forum for the first time. I don't really agree with the rest of your post though... Members who insist on asking questions that have already been answered and just generally being a nuisance need to be dealt with, whether that's a 1-day ban as a warning or something more severe. If we let them get away with everything they are going to keep the mindset that its ok to continue behaving that way.
SexyMichael Wrote:1. Be polite
Needs work from staff/members. This is probably my biggest concern.
I agree, this needs to be worked on. We've all been a little on-edge lately. But its not so much that we've been edgy, its more the fact that we've been edgy and gotten away with it, while others are being punished for the very same thing. Kind of hypocritical, no?
Composer of Requiems Wrote:What worries me is how we rarely have new members who last more than a week.
This worries me too. They either get banned or we scare them off by being complete and utter assholes to them. That's not the right way to run an inviting community, particularly when the site's proposed goal is to help educate new players.
I'm going to type up a new rules list as a proposition, and then we can go about editing them together from there until we settle on something we can all agree on. Once we get to that point I'll submit them to Brad for final approval.
Thanks for your comments guys.
This isn't going to make me very popular at all but I'm just going to come right on out and say it, because to be quite honest with you all, I think I'm right about this. I don't get involved in the fights and squabbles here so I can view most situations from the outside and usually see exactly what went wrong.
The level of hypocrisy at Beywiki is actually apalling. I'm really sorry to say this guys, but it's members like Brad that seem to be the main causes. I think you really,
really need to define what you want Beywiki to be - Brad, you're making announcements asking for better behaviour and for people to revise the rules but then, the within the next day or so, you're acting completely against said rules and being a general carp to people, usually for no substantial reason whatsoever.
I don't care if you want this forum to be like that, but you must understand that it cannot be both a hangout in which you guys act how you want
and a community in which you help people out. It isn't working. If you want to make Beywiki a forum for members who know each other and know how to joke around, throw insults (in a friendly way btw) and be really relaxed; fine. If you want Beywiki to be a forum that welcomes new members into the community and actually wants to teach them about Beyblade; great. But you have to choose. At the moment, it seems like you're aiming for both - you want to run a successful information database but you don't want to let down everyone else by becoming too strict. It can't happen like that. There has to be a balance.
I know I sound like a colossal carp saying this but this is how I, and other members I know, see it. You're chasing newbies away, you're being unreasonable, hypocritical and frankly, not a very nice bunch to be around at all sometimes. I don't want to bring up examples but there are quite a few for me to choose from.
I don't have any personal qualms against any of you, you should know that... but I wanted to say this and get it out there because I think it's important. Beywiki will end up just like all the other forums if something isn't done to correct all this. I'm sorry if this is going to make you resent me.
However, I don't want Beywiki to go down the carp.
Alice I'm not angry with you at all for saying any of that.
I agree with you and that was my prime motivation for making this topic, because I realized that we had a major problem on our hands and nothing was really being done about it.
I think, as an administrative staff, all of us are on different pages. Brad and I talk a lot so usually we are both pretty in-line with each other, but I rarely speak to Bugturtles and I don't think I've ever spoken to Kei, G or Spinster outside of the forum.
What I mean by this is that we need to get our act together and work as a team, because that's what we are and I don't just mean the staff. I mean all of us, the longtime members and dedicated fans who want to help bring new players into the fold. Right now the way things are being run is not conducive to this goal, and that's sad because I know that between all of us we have a pretty vast pool of knowledge about beyblade that could be shared and used to educate new players.
First off, let me say I'm a little disappointed that you're painting me as the administrator who wants people to be dicks to each other. You've come to me with requests for invalid bans more than once and I've said no. Furthermore, I don't recall you ever having a serious discussion about this with me, and if you had done so it must have been very half-hearted. In general, you've been all of the things you are now dissenting.
That being said, I'm going to come out and say that I'm not a believer in more members = better community. If idiot members are getting scared off because we don't want to deal with their carp, I'm not sure I should be losing sleep over that.
That being said, there are valid concerns present.
Quote:Maybe, if/after the rules/guidelines are revised, they can be PM'd to new members upon the member's registration. I remember as soon as I registered, Brad sent me a PM. I don't know if it was an automatic thing or if Brad sent it himself...but if it was an automatic thing, couldn't a link to the new rules/guidelines be posted in the Welcome PM?
I've been meaning to do this for some time, and it will be done shortly.
Quote:I feel like new members get baned way to quickly.
I would like to hear some proof of this, because the ban list for this board is actually incredibly small, and I deny almost all requests for bans. The only bans in place are only in place for those who are very obviously only here to cause trouble (Kenny, brandonk, etc.) or people who consistently defy all warnings we give them.
With that being said, in August the forums will see a software update that will introduce a warning system that should lower the amount of animosity you see in replies to offending posts. Instead of having to post in the thread, there will simply be a small warning given and a PM automatically sent to the user about it.
Quote:I don't care if you want this forum to be like that, but you must understand that it cannot be both a hangout in which you guys act how you want and a community in which you help people out. It isn't working.
Correct. I imagine in the next few weeks there will be an introduction of a private forum for the "old friends" of this community to converse.
So, Ryan and BT, it's easy for you to say "this is the direction we want to go in", but if you're not willing to support it along with myself and the userbase, it will fail, just like it always has before.
Roan Wrote:Alice I'm not angry with you at all for saying any of that.
I agree with you and that was my prime motivation for making this topic, because I realized that we had a major problem on our hands and nothing was really being done about it.
I think, as an administrative staff, all of us are on different pages. Brad and I talk a lot so usually we are both pretty in-line with each other, but I rarely speak to Bugturtles and I don't think I've ever spoken to Kei, G or Spinster outside of the forum.
What I mean by this is that we need to get our act together and work as a team, because that's what we are and I don't just mean the staff. I mean all of us, the longtime members and dedicated fans who want to help bring new players into the fold. Right now the way things are being run is not conducive to this goal, and that's sad because I know that between all of us we have a pretty vast pool of knowledge about beyblade that could be shared and used to educate new players.
Thank you Roan.
I know I sounded harsh saying what I did but you're so right; something really does need to be done and I'm so glad you brought it up.
Ultimately, I think there need to be some compromises - of course, Brad will have the final say in what will be enforced but I hope he'll also listen to everyone equally and hear what we have to say too - and we as members and you as staff need a major lesson in how to... well, be nice to people. As Nic said, it's really sad that new members are lasting such a short time and I think a massive part of that problem is Beywiki as a whole and not the individual member (Blader Kenny carp kid not included.) New members are being insulted, albeit sometimes jokingly, and treated really unfairly. It's all very well to joke around but people have got to start realising that not everyone understands you're joking and 99% of the time, the joke you made wasn't appropriate to begin with.
Another issue I think needs addressing is the impatience some members have with less experienced members. When someone asks you a question that has already been explained to them, the answer is not "For God's sake you thick carp, we've already told you, GOD, GO AWAY" - how about taking some time to explain it in a way they might understand better?
tbh, I hate how I'm coming across in what I'm saying but I just want you all to know I'm not angry at anyone at all.
I do want to get this off my chest though.
Alice, I agree with what you're saying, but I also need to ask: where are you during all of this? Why are you not answering questions that are being asked again and again? I hardly ever see you post, especially not in the Beyblade sections. I'm not saying your comments are invalid; however, if you want things to change so badly, I think it's fair to expect you'd contribute to the change.
Bey Brad Wrote:So, Ryan and BT, it's easy for you to say "this is the direction we want to go in", but if you're not willing to support it along with myself and the userbase, it will fail, just like it always has before.
I think taking the time to make this post at 4 AM and to draw up a proposal for new rules more than displays my willingness to commit to a new direction.
Bey Brad Wrote:Alice, I agree with what you're saying, but I also need to ask: where are you during all of this? Why are you not answering questions that are being asked again and again? I hardly ever see you post, especially not in the Beyblade sections. I'm not saying your comments are invalid; however, if you want things to change so badly, I think it's fair to expect you'd contribute to the change.
Most of the time, I don't really feel I'm knowledgable enough to answer a lot of the more advanced questions asked in that topic. However, I don't think it's unreasonable of me to ask for change seeing as how I was not one of the ones causing problems in the first place.
Besides, my interest in Beyblade isn't thriving at the moment. I'm hoping that the release of the new series will revive it a bit.
So forgive me if I'm inactive in that particular part of the forum.
Quote:I hardly ever see you post, especially not in the Beyblade sections.
To be quite honest, I don't post as much as I would like to because I normally have an issue with what someone has said on the board. I know, I know, Alice the scratty rule enforcer returns; you can hate that aspect of me all you want, but I don't like seeing new people pushed around and pushed out.
I'd rather post a little and not be a carp-stirrer than post a lot and be nagging everyone all the time. I prefer to stay out of conflict, so that's why I've been so quiet recently. I hope you understand.
Just a quick stream of consciousness post here, don't mind me.
Communities much larger than this one are run by just as a few a number of people as ours. They deal with more carp than anyone could possibly imagine. If you don't have the patience to deal with all of the noob members on the board, perhaps you're not meant to be a moderator.
I think that the report function on these forums could use more advertisement for its use. I'm sure if people knew about it and used it to report stupid posts, then it would make all your jobs a lot simpler.
I think that once MFB gets underway, change will naturally occur. We'll have genuine topics to discuss and ideas to contribute. Right now, we're all sort of in a waiting mode and have nothing to really add to any discussion besides correcting idiots. A single goal that guides the entire community would help with a lot of the problems we're seeing.
Hopefully, MFB could also bring back the advanced beyblade forum. Though in OtC it wasn't the most successful forum, I think if the requirements were clearly laid out and achievable and it was heavily moderated, a lot of good could come from it.
So, what else is there to discuss now?
Also, I'd like to point out that I don't think we're going to see as big of an influx after the MFB launch as everyone seems to think. This is Japan-only, there is no promotion of it outside of Japan, at most we will see a marginal increase in registration.
Pathetique Wrote:I think that the report function on these forums could use more advertisement for its use. I'm sure if people knew about it and used it to report stupid posts, then it would make all your jobs a lot simpler.
I'm actually making a thread about this as we speak.
Bey Brad Wrote:So, what else is there to discuss now?
Nothing, really.
The issue has been brought up, discussed and we've begun working on it.
So I'll lock this.
If anyone has anything they'd like to add or think needs to be addressed, please see the
Proposal for new Forum Rules thread to help resolve the issue.