World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.
Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Printable Version

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Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Hextribution - May. 31, 2021

I've fallen in love with the concept and function of anti-attacker beys back in metal fight. For context, anti-attackers are typically described as defense/attack balance types that uses heavy weight, moderately aggressive wheel (preferably smash attack), and a rubber flat tip for the aggressive movement and grip on the stadium. It's meant to shut down attack type beyblades and has the chance to KO stamina types with its main weakness being defense types.

The main issues the anti-attackers faced in the competitive MFB scene where the increase in height and weight of commonly used stamina types became greater which prevented them from being Ko'd. Height isn't a prominent issue in burst as of now due to the absence of a separate track part. While the weight of many popular stamina combos is quite heavy, especially something like tempest on xtend, my logic is that these are mostly top heavy and on sharp tips so powerful enough smash attacks from a heavy opposing bey could knock it off balance. Also, the sharp tips have less KO resistance. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm new to this.

So with that in mind, and the fact that this topic hasn't been brought up in a while as far as I could tell, I was wondering if any parts released recently could be used in an attack type combo that may be worth testing. My idea was Tempest Solomon(MCC)/Lucifer (Not so sure about disc/chassis) (Some attack driver, not sure). So I haven't gotten a Tempest so I'm not entirely sure how it'd perform used this way but I'm under the impression that it doesn't have high recoil due to it being used in stamina/defense combos. However, I feel like it could possibly be heavy enough and deliver a decent smash attack. The chip suggestion is for obvious reasons.

Thanks for any input, I hope this is a good first post.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - May. 31, 2021

Hey, you're right, we usually used RF on stuff like Earth to create what we called "anti-Attack". I feel like, looking back, the name is quite ridiculous. Defense is anti-Attack. Attack is anti-Defense. This was also at a time where RSF and RF had not quite made it onto the scene, and CS wasn't really viewed as a great Defense option yet. I'm pretty sure we were still using stuff like C145WB. We also considered using more worn-out, docile RF's too. Taller tracks were a fair bit later, the idea more or less died because of RSF and RS doing what we wanted "anti-Attack" to do, grip the stadium on a smooth wheel. As for moderately aggressive wheels (all of MFB is Smash btw), I guess people did use Burn too? But really, that's just off-meta Attack, since it is just a weaker Attack option.

Anyway, when it comes to Burst, I honestly believe the standard stadium puts in far too much work for this, or Defense in general, to ever matter. It's no wonder why people get away with using straight up stamina drivers without too much concern for Attackers. The overbearing guard and small width of pockets make using Attackers not nearly as consistent as they otherwise would be in older-style stadiums. I don't mean to say Attack is useless, but it is heavily nerfed in that stadium, and it is evident from TT's lack of legitimate Defense-oriented parts or beys that they don't see a need for staunch Defense beys.

Why build something like Tempest + Xtreme' or Destroy' to (ideally) thwart Attackers on the same kinds of Driver, when a Stamina type may fare just as well, and will certainly outspin the Attacker if it doesn't get hit into the pocket and stop spinning/hit the floor? I'll test out something like this later today, and post tests here, but the nature of the stadium makes me believe something like this is redundant since Stamina and Defense/"anti-Attack" would have a similar likelihood of being knocked out, but certainly not the same chance of OS'ing the Attacker. This is also not accounting for stuff like Rage + Zone'+Z/Drift, which will almost certainly OS an Xtreme' or Destroy' based opponent.

Edit: As promised, I'm back after doing a bit of testing. Because you brought up Tempest, I put Lucifer II on it (Solomon not yet in my possession) to see how it would do. I did a fair amount only 10 rounds each, these were all quickly done so forgive the fact they are not incredibly thorough. And I hope the formatting of the parts is correct, though I think even if it isn't you'll understand which parts I'm using.

Firstly I wanted to see if any of the more aggressive Drivers had a serious change in performance vs. an attacker. 
Spoiler, I ended up going with Quick' later on out of preference.

Tempest Lucifer II Xtreme' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II (looks cooler than Helios II, don't @ me) Xtreme' 3A
Tempest: 6 Wins (2 KO, 4 OS)
Rage: 4 Wins (4 KO)
Tempest WR: 60%

Tempest Lucifer II Hunter' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A
Tempest: 5 Wins (2 KO, 3 OS)
Rage: 5 Wins (4 KO)
Tempest WR: 50%

Tempest Lucifer II Xceed+X 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A
Tempest: 4 Wins (4OS)
Rage: 6 Wins (6 KO)
Tempest WR: 40%

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A
Tempest: 5 Wins (2 KO, 3 OS)
Rage: 5 Wins (5 KO)
Tempest WR: 50%

You could technically say Xtreme' did the best, but the sample size was small to hasten the process and they all, except for Xceed'+X, did roughly the same. Xceed'+X didn't seem too hot on this set up at all. Also, there was a lack of draws here. I recall just one, on double Xtreme', a double KO.

This may seem promising, but that might be a little deceiving. I took out the aggressive Driver and put in Xtend+, which I consider to be one of the easier Drivers to KO.

Tempest Lucifer II Xtend+ 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A
Tempest: 4 Wins (4 OS)
Rage: 6 Wins (6 KO)
Tempest WR: 40%

The only significant difference between this result and the other was that Tempest didn't deal with big hits as well, because of a lack of momentum and traction, but still, it performed well within the same ballpark thanks to the stadium. Definitely not an auto-lose matchup as a more stamina-oriented combo. With that in mind, Rage on Xtreme' is not even the more troublesome combo. Tempest is right spin, making it basically free food for Drift. So, could Tempest KO Rage on Drift before the eventual outspin?

Tempest Lucifer II Xtreme' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Drift 3A (Weak Launched)
Tempest: 1 Wins (1 KO)
Rage: 9 Wins (3 KO, 6 OS)
Tempest WR: 10%

Tempest Lucifer II Hunter' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Drift 3A (Weak Launched)
Tempest: 2 Wins (2 KO)
Rage: 9 Wins (3 KO, 6 OS)
Tempest WR: 20%

and just for comparison, here is the pure Stamina result:

Tempest Lucifer II Xtend+ 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Drift 3A (Weak Launched)
Tempest: 1 Wins (1 KO)
Rage: 9 Wins (4 KO, 5 OS)
Tempest WR: 10%

Simply put, it was no contest. When Tempest landed big hits on Rage+Drift, it would at best make Rage hit the Tornado Ridge, but Rage would spin right back to the center instantly for a counter attack, resulting in a noticeable amount of KOs. You could potentially not weak launch Rage here, and Tornado Stall, but that is risky for the Rage user. There is no guarantee that Drift can stay in the stadium at high speeds while a rubber-based opponent wouldn't. Mind you, I'm weak launching but also banking. Yet, this isn't even the end. I know people also use Rage with Zone'+Z sometimes, so here is that:

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Zone'+Z 3A (Weak Launched)
Tempest: 3 Wins (3 KO)
Rage: 7 Wins (3 KO, 4 OS)
Tempest WR: 30%

Just to see, this is what happened when Zone'+Z wasn't weak launched and banked:

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Rage Diabolos II Zone'+Z 3A 
Tempest: 5 Wins (5 KO)
Rage: 5 Wins (2 KO, 3 OS)
Tempest WR: 50%

Just a slight edge when you weak launch an opposite spin beyblade, nothing we don't know.
To be clear, by this point I wasn't really sold on Tempest for this purpose. But, I did a bit more testing against Attackers other than Rage (I forgot stuff like Super or Brave, but I can do those later if requested). Technically these may no longer be seen as the tip-top. But still.

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Judgement Diabolos Sting Xtreme'
Tempest: 5 Wins (4 KO, 1 OS)
Judgement: 5 Wins (5 OS)
Tempest WR: 50%

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Zwei Diabolos Sting Xtreme'
Tempest: 6 Wins (4 KO, 2 OS)
Zwei: 4 Wins (4 OS)
Tempest WR: 60%

Not so bad, but do recall there is a weight and width difference that does a heckload of work here. Also, here's Drift doing Drift stuff:

Tempest Lucifer II Quick' 2B vs. Zwei Diabolos Sting Drift (Weak Launched)
Tempest: 2 Wins (2 KO)
Zwei: 8 Wins (2 KO, 6 OS)
Tempest WR: 20%


Anyway, by this point it became clear that while you can probably 50/50 with Tempest against full-on Attackers (not dissimilar to just doing a regular Stamina combo, mind you), left-spin and weak launching is just very strong. So. What happens when you use a left-spin beyblade that makes it impossible to weak launch into? You get something promising, yet not actually too surprising. 

First, I tried World Spriggan Wheel Quick' 1S. Here is it against Rage+Drift:

World Spriggan Quick' 1S (Left) vs. Rage Diabolos II Drift 3A
World: 5 Wins (2 KO, 3 OS)
Rage: 5 Wins (3 KO, 2 Burst finishes)
World WR: 50%

Because this combo is a bit sensitive, as you can tell by the Bursts, I went with something a bit bulkier, and definitely more "anti-Attack" like the days of old. Libra CH120RF type vibes. Even though that was definitely not broken, FYI. Just good.

World Spriggan Quick' 2B (Left) vs. Rage Diabolos II Drift 3A
World: 8 Wins (3 KO, 5 OS)
Rage: 2 Wins (2 KO)
World WR: 80%

A pretty commanding victory. Drift can't get away with siphoning spin, and World's relatively low-recoil design makes it so that it won't be losing as much spin on hard impacts as Rage is, when it comes down to an endurance matchup. Here is the matchup with Rage + Xtreme'

World Spriggan Quick' 2B (Left) vs. Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A
World: 7 Wins (3 KO, 4 OS)
Rage: 3 Wins (3 KO)
World WR: 70%

So, to no one's surprise, a same spin, lowish recoil beyblade with high-traction and high momentum is a viable enough strategy. Opposite spin is usually asking for trouble against Rage, and victory is by no means assured. So technically, if you wanted a sure-fire win against any Rage configuration, without the usual 50-50 on just about any stamina-based beyblade, left-spin World 2B on a rubber tip is a good option. It may be possible 2D works just as fine, but just make sure your Burst resistance is high enough, or you're basically back to 50-50 and may as well be using Xtend+.


Still not done, for whatever reason. How does World 2B do against stamina types, though? Well, it is a mixed bag. Similar to Earth or Libra on RF, you're basically capitalizing on the opponents recoil and your lack of it to generate KOs. Recoil is deliberately scarce on stamina types. Here is just about the easiest stamina type I could imagine being KO'd.

World Spriggan Quick' 2B (Left) vs. Tempest Lucifer II Xtend+ 2B
World: 7 Wins (7 KO)
Tempest: 3 Wins (3 OS)
World WR: 70%

Promising, since it wouldn't be too far off from Rage, in ideal scenarios. We can say it's a matchup where World is likely favoured. Here is a not so favoured match up with a bulkier stamina type you're probably more used to seeing, because it can take advantage of walls and its height to stay in the stadium:

World Spriggan Quick' 2B (Left) vs. World Spriggan Mobius 2D (Awakened, Right)
World 2B: 1 Wins (1 KO)
World 2D: 9 Wins (9 OS)
World WR: 10%

Not even close, since there wasn't a whole lot of recoil for 2B to take advantage of. World 2D took it to the cleaners. Finally, here is a comparison to Rage on a similar set up:

Rage Diabolos II Xtreme' 3A vs. World Spriggan Mobius 2D (Awakened, Right)
Rage: 4 (4 KO)
World: 6 (3 KO, 3 OS)
Rage WR: 40%

Really not that much better. All I can say is there were wall saves aplenty, making it from a Rage-favoured matchup into a World-favoured matchup. Rage got the pocket, World got the wall, 3 times. Which kind of goes back to my whole thing about the stadium nerfing Attackers, and the lack of the need for a legitimate defense type when this definitely competitive Stamina type is more than enough to "defend" against Rage. Probably the reason why people may opt for Drift or Zone'+Z on Rage, as it leaves less up to chance, just a battle of who gets the last extra rotation or two if no KO's are had.

So! All in all, Tempest kinda meh for this, World with same-spin gets the desired results you'd want for this strategy. I can't stay it is as viable as just going World Mobius and 2D, or even other straight up Stamina types. Reason being that you can 50-50, or sometimes 60-40 the pure Attacker matchup on Stamina types depending on launch or luck, while still being perfectly fine if you go up against another Stamina beyblade. This is not the case for something like World on Quick', which will more often than not run into a bulky Stamina type it cannot KO at all, an auto-lose matchup. It isn't an even trade-off, I think, to getting a decent, if not good, WR vs Attackers.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Hextribution - Jun. 01, 2021

Wow, thank you so much for doing all this testing, I appreciate it. I'm not surprised by both set-ups lack of definitive victories over other beyblades as they could be considered balance types. One thing I do know about the beyblade metagame is that in formats that let you use multiple beyblades, balance types (except defense/stamina) are not competitive due to the fact that you could just use one that focuses on a specific thing and is more likely to hard-counter something else.

Considering that I might not be able to join tournaments in my area for numerous reasons and I'd just be playing casually, I'm actually fine with the results of your testing. I think for casual play, having that variation in result and possibility to have a different outcome each time is what makes it fun. I'll definitely be trying out different combos with it once it arrives and see which one I find the most fun. Thanks again


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  2:38 AM)Hextribution Wrote: Wow, thank you so much for doing all this testing, I appreciate it. I'm not surprised by both set-ups lack of definitive victories over other beyblades as they could be considered balance types. One thing I do know about the beyblade metagame is that in formats that let you use multiple beyblades, balance types (except defense/stamina) are not competitive due to the fact that you could just use one that focuses on a specific thing and is more likely to hard-counter something else.

Considering that I might not be able to join tournaments in my area for numerous reasons and I'd just be playing casually, I'm actually fine with the results of your testing. I think for casual play, having that variation in result and possibility to have a different outcome each time is what makes it fun. I'll definitely be trying out different combos with it once it arrives and see which one I find the most fun. Thanks again

No problem, I'm happy to help. I don't think the forum gets enough Burst testing. Normally I do a full 20 rounds with round-by-round result, but for this I wanted it to be a bit faster. As it stands it was nearly 200 rounds lol.

I guess in some way they could be considered Balance, but really I think they're able to be described in one real way: an unorthodox Defense type. 
Balance implies they take attributes from every type, or it performs in a way like every type would (being capable of OS'ing Stamina, KO'ing Defense, and staying in the stadium against Attack). In this case, we are taking an Attack foundation and using Rings not well-suited for legitimate Attack use to meet a certain goal. 
That isn't really Balance. It's just a weird Beyblade meant to mess up legitimate Attackers while not exhibiting the other redeeming qualities of an Attack type itself. It can't really hang with Attackers at actually KO'ing stuff, it can just stay in the stadium.
If you want to consider it a Defense type you can, it uses momentum to make sure it will stay in the stadium, matching the momentum of an Attack Beyblade and using its low-recoil Ring to not create unnecessary self-KOs. It can't really KO other things reliably and its primary use is to stay in the stadium when up against an Attack type, either outlasting them or using the Attackers own recoil against them. These are very much Defense-like traits. It is just reaching that goal in a weird way. Usually Defense types employ strategies like weight (heavy parts) or traction (docile rubber tips) to stay in the stadium against a barrage of attacks. In this case we are using movement and grip together.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  4:00 AM)Dan Wrote:
(Jun. 01, 2021  2:38 AM)Hextribution Wrote: Wow, thank you so much for doing all this testing, I appreciate it. I'm not surprised by both set-ups lack of definitive victories over other beyblades as they could be considered balance types. One thing I do know about the beyblade metagame is that in formats that let you use multiple beyblades, balance types (except defense/stamina) are not competitive due to the fact that you could just use one that focuses on a specific thing and is more likely to hard-counter something else.

Considering that I might not be able to join tournaments in my area for numerous reasons and I'd just be playing casually, I'm actually fine with the results of your testing. I think for casual play, having that variation in result and possibility to have a different outcome each time is what makes it fun. I'll definitely be trying out different combos with it once it arrives and see which one I find the most fun. Thanks again

No problem, I'm happy to help. I don't think the forum gets enough Burst testing. Normally I do a full 20 rounds with round-by-round result, but for this I wanted it to be a bit faster. As it stands it was nearly 200 rounds lol.

I guess in some way they could be considered Balance, but really I think they're able to be described in one real way: an unorthodox Defense type. 
Balance implies they take attributes from every type, or it performs in a way like every type would (being capable of OS'ing Stamina, KO'ing Defense, and staying in the stadium against Attack). In this case, we are taking an Attack foundation and using Rings not well-suited for legitimate Attack use to meet a certain goal. 
That isn't really Balance. It's just a weird Beyblade meant to mess up legitimate Attackers while not exhibiting the other redeeming qualities of an Attack type itself. It can't really hang with Attackers at actually KO'ing stuff, it can just stay in the stadium.
If you want to consider it a Defense type you can, it uses momentum to make sure it will stay in the stadium, matching the momentum of an Attack Beyblade and using its low-recoil Ring to not create unnecessary self-KOs. It can't really KO other things reliably and its primary use is to stay in the stadium when up against an Attack type, either outlasting them or using the Attackers own recoil against them. These are very much Defense-like traits. It is just reaching that goal in a weird way. Usually Defense types employ strategies like weight (heavy parts) or traction (docile rubber tips) to stay in the stadium against a barrage of attacks. In this case we are using movement and grip together.

Thanks for the testing, this has opened a new insight of mine since I've only played burst!
But tbh Xtend+ Attack mode counters Rage better.
I hope I'm not sounding noob but in the early days of Superking I use World Xtend+ 1A. Allows mode change for stamina performance and the Attack mode somehow countered Rage really well. I remember making that as one of my first threads but many members just discounted it. Maybe Tempest could do it though?


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  5:37 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: Thanks for the testing, this has opened a new insight of mine since I've only played burst!
But tbh Xtend+ Attack mode counters Rage better.
I hope I'm not sounding noob but in the early days of Superking I use World Xtend+ 1A. Allows mode change for stamina performance and the Attack mode somehow countered Rage really well. I remember making that as one of my first threads but many members just discounted it. Maybe Tempest could do it though?

That is a good point, throughout testing I only used Stamina mode, so tomorrow I'll retest it using Attack mode. I'll try both Tempest and World. I'm inclined to say World will be better simply because it can avoid being Drift cheesed by changing spin direction to match Rage. I don't know how extensive the testing has been on these parts, since I've only just started caring about Burst, but I can say that in general it doesn't seem like Burst testing is well documented. It is possible this is all old news, but at the very least, it becomes a bit more accessible.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Hextribution - Jun. 01, 2021

Looking at it like that, where the mindset/goal of a set-up defines its type, it sounds quite difficult to create a true balance type without the need for a bunch of mode change parts, but it does make sense. Speaking about mode-changing, the reason Tempest stood out while was browsing the different parts in burst were its wings that didn't require you to constantly assemble and disassemble the beyblade to retract and extend it, possibly wearing down the teeth. I even thought that extending only one of the wings could give it a slightly more balanced feel you get from the Hollow ring, maybe even paired with 4A. However, I came across a ruling in the WBBA where you had to start with the wings bound which kinda bursted (pun not intended)my bubble there. Not sure if the same is true for WBO rulings though.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - tubitr - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  8:38 AM)Hextribution Wrote: (...)

Both of Tempests wings spread out when you hard launch don't they?

I doubt being able to put it on your launcher with only one wing out would do much.



(Jun. 01, 2021  5:37 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: But tbh Xtend+ Attack mode counters Rage better.

Really? I thought stamina mode did relatively well vs Rage combos cuz it's low height made Rage 3A's busted upper attack not as effective.

Why/how does attack mode help vs Rage?

(May. 31, 2021  6:57 PM)Dan Wrote: (...)

Why 2B with Xtend+,
Isn't 1S Wheel slightly heavier/less recoil-y with better stamina? (Tempest doesnt burst easily either).

I see 2B Xtend+ being suggested on the "build me a combo" thread sometimes but it seems worse than 1S Wheel/2A/2S to me, is there something I'm missing?


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  10:44 AM)tubitr Wrote:
(Jun. 01, 2021  8:38 AM)Hextribution Wrote: (...)

Both of Tempests wings spread out when you hard launch don't they?

I doubt being able to put it on your launcher with only one wing out would do much.



(Jun. 01, 2021  5:37 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: But tbh Xtend+ Attack mode counters Rage better.

Really? I thought stamina mode did relatively well vs Rage combos cuz it's low height made  Rage 3A's busted upper attack not as effective.

Why/how does attack mode help vs Rage?

(May. 31, 2021  6:57 PM)Dan Wrote: (...)

Why 2B with Xtend+,
Isn't 1S Wheel slightly heavier/less recoil-y  with better stamina? (Tempest doesnt burst easily either).

I see 2B Xtend+ being suggested on the "build me a combo" thread sometimes but it seems worse than 1S Wheel/2A/2S to me, is there something I'm missing?

My Tempest's wings don't spread out when they launch very often at all.

Xtend+ (Stamina mode) is awful against Rage, against Rage's "upper" or otherwise. Its low profile is pretty meaningless since it is easily knocked around. Attack mode may yield better results because it will be whizzing around at a higher speed, and that momentum may make it harder to KO.

I used 2B because that is what I used on Tempest when putting it on stuff like Xtreme' or Quick'. I wanted to showcase how taking that exact combo, switching the Driver out to a completely Stamina-oriented one, didn't lead to an astronomical difference in performance. 50% with aggressive Drivers vs. 40% with Xtend+.

Maybe in a stamina-only matchup the other options may be better, even then I'm not sure, but 2B adds bulk to the bey which you may want to remain versatile. You can't be sure your opponent won't be using an Attack bey, where 2B will probably perform better than something lighter, while probably performing similarly enough in a pure stamina matchup. Again I haven't seriously testing it, maybe there is a significant difference, but the tradeoff is for matchup versatility, probably. That isn't why I picked it. Just wanted to be uniform in my testing approach.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - tubitr - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  6:35 PM)Dan Wrote: My Tempest's wings don't spread out when they launch very often at all.

Mine ended up breaking quickly so there might have been something wrong with it.

(Jun. 01, 2021  6:35 PM)Dan Wrote: Xtend+ (Stamina mode) is awful against Rage, against Rage's "upper" or otherwise. Its low profile is pretty meaningless since it is easily knocked around

Are you sure?
It seemed like I could switch out the Xtend+ on Tempest Hy2 Wheel 1S to Keep' and it wouldn't do noticably better vs Rage 3A Xtreme' (and afaik Keep' is pretty good for defence)


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 01, 2021

(Jun. 01, 2021  8:36 PM)tubitr Wrote:
(Jun. 01, 2021  6:35 PM)Dan Wrote: My Tempest's wings don't spread out when they launch very often at all.

Mine ended up breaking  quickly so there might have been something wrong with it.

(Jun. 01, 2021  6:35 PM)Dan Wrote: Xtend+ (Stamina mode) is awful against Rage, against Rage's "upper" or otherwise. Its low profile is pretty meaningless since it is easily knocked around

Are you sure?
It seemed like I could switch out the Xtend+ on Tempest Hy2 Wheel 1S to Keep' and it wouldn't do noticably better vs Rage 3A Xtreme'  (and afaik Keep' is  pretty good for defence)

Perhaps? I'm not an expert on all the quirks of Tempest, unfortunately.

I mean.. that was my impression from testing it formally here and informally prior. The entire point of that test was to prove that Tempest was doing similar on just about every bottom vs. Rage, results were within 1 win/lose from each other. Keep', from my little use of it, is a poor excuse for a Defense Driver. If they were serious about it, they wouldn't have gone with a circular rubber design like they did, and done a more flat or sharp one instead. But again, that kind of furthers my point about how the Burst Standard stadium really nerfs Attackers in some situations or matchups, the difference between radically different Drivers is minute, and just a pinch of luck can have an Xtend+ combo live where a Keep' combo wouldn't, for example.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jun. 02, 2021

Attack mode of Xtend+ is hard to explain.
Its supposed to be used in opposite spin against Rage where it finds pretty decent success. (Only tried World Spriggan Xtend+ 1A so not sure how others will perform)
It just slams into Rage and even after getting pushed back from the recoil it rarely gets KOed, Rage itself gets KOed much of the time. But it somehow stops the momentum of Rage altogether. But idk how to explain it, You'll have to try it for yourself to see.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 03, 2021

Just to get back to you guys, Xtend+ in Attack mode did not fare any better. The lack of grip meant that despite its significant boost in momentum (remember, much of the idea comes from opposing momentum making it harder for your bey to get KO'd when the two meet), it still was easily knocked around. Rage on Xtreme' was still very much able to push it around even with the additional speed to the point I don't really consider it viable, even over just regular stamina mode, in this matchup. Perhaps against a non-rubber based combo it can make a difference, though, as neither combo would have the required grip to bully the other in such a one-sided way.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - USN - Jun. 03, 2021

I was wondering if using Xtreme' for defense could have any benefits. I do not have Xtreme so I cannot test this myself, but I think that it might have better KO defense then other defense drivers. My thought was that it could be used to counter Rage or even more aggressive combos in limited and classic. Because it is a dash driver, the classic Beyblades might not burst as much. The only problem is stamina. The stamina on Xtreme is horrendous from my understanding, but because Xtreme also dominates Attack, defense beys with Xtreme might stand a chance when it comes to stamina purely because it is a driver mirror matchup. While this solution to beat Rage will only work for so long (I can see the meta shifting to Quick' or Xceed'+Z) it may be a temporary solution to Rage dominance. Overall, I think that time has smushed Stamina and Defense together. I think that more solutions like this could make the line between them more defined. This might just be me, but nowadays I think of defense and I always look for a high stamina solution, but that might not be the right way for defense to go. What we really need now is a driver similar to the MFB RDF. I am not the most knowledgeable about MFB, but I am fairly sure that this driver was a rubber spike. Rubber not used for attack has been explored TWICE for Burst. Keep and Friction, neither of witch are anything special.

I would like to hear your opinions on this topic. It seams pretty far fetched, but it might just work. If anybody has the parts to do some testing, please tell me your results!


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jun. 04, 2021

(Jun. 03, 2021  6:34 PM)Dan Wrote: Just to get back to you guys, Xtend+ in Attack mode did not fare any better. The lack of grip meant that despite its significant boost in momentum (remember, much of the idea comes from opposing momentum making it harder for your bey to get KO'd when the two meet), it still was easily knocked around. Rage on Xtreme' was still very much able to push it around even with the additional speed to the point I don't really consider it viable, even over just regular stamina mode, in this matchup. Perhaps against a non-rubber based combo it can make a difference, though, as neither combo would have the required grip to bully the other in such a one-sided way.

Even in Opposite spin?
It's quite bad in same spin

Essentially it only works in Opposite spin because in same spin the defence is really bad


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 04, 2021

(Jun. 04, 2021  12:46 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:
(Jun. 03, 2021  6:34 PM)Dan Wrote: Just to get back to you guys, Xtend+ in Attack mode did not fare any better. The lack of grip meant that despite its significant boost in momentum (remember, much of the idea comes from opposing momentum making it harder for your bey to get KO'd when the two meet), it still was easily knocked around. Rage on Xtreme' was still very much able to push it around even with the additional speed to the point I don't really consider it viable, even over just regular stamina mode, in this matchup. Perhaps against a non-rubber based combo it can make a difference, though, as neither combo would have the required grip to bully the other in such a one-sided way.

Even in Opposite spin?
It's quite bad in same spin

Essentially it only works in Opposite spin because in same spin the defence is really bad


Yes. I redid Tempest vs. Rage, but used Attack Mode instead, as you alluded to in your request.
I can't imagine it doing better in one spin over another, Xtend+ would still be Xtend+. It is possible a specific Ring may come along and be strong enough to carry Xtend+'s propensity to get yeeted, but that is just speculation, and would probably be unhealthy on other Drivers anyway.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Jun. 04, 2021

(Jun. 04, 2021  1:05 AM)Dan Wrote:
(Jun. 04, 2021  12:46 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: Even in Opposite spin?
It's quite bad in same spin

Essentially it only works in Opposite spin because in same spin the defence is really bad


Yes. I redid Tempest vs. Rage, but used Attack Mode instead, as you alluded to in your request.
I can't imagine it doing better in one spin over another, Xtend+ would still be Xtend+. It is possible a specific Ring may come along and be strong enough to carry Xtend+'s propensity to get yeeted, but that is just speculation, and would probably be unhealthy on other Drivers anyway.

I think tempest has too much recoil? I used world and it slammed into Rage without letting rage give it recoil? Maybe just that it needs to be light?
I already mentioned I only tried this World Xtend+ 1A combo so idk about tempest


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Dan - Jun. 04, 2021

(Jun. 04, 2021  2:44 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:
(Jun. 04, 2021  1:05 AM)Dan Wrote: Yes. I redid Tempest vs. Rage, but used Attack Mode instead, as you alluded to in your request.
I can't imagine it doing better in one spin over another, Xtend+ would still be Xtend+. It is possible a specific Ring may come along and be strong enough to carry Xtend+'s propensity to get yeeted, but that is just speculation, and would probably be unhealthy on other Drivers anyway.

I think tempest has too much recoil? I used world and it slammed into Rage without letting rage give it recoil? Maybe just that it needs to be light?
I already mentioned I only tried this World Xtend+ 1A combo so idk about tempest

Being lightweight would be detrimental. You're using attack mode to use its momentum to nullify some, ideally all, of the force Rage is about to hit you with. Weight is a good way to ensure Rage has a harder time knocking it around. I'll try World tomorrow in right with Xtend+ in attack mode for you.


RE: Any possible Anti-Attackers in Burst with the new parts? - Orbit - Jun. 04, 2021

I wonder what the dynamite disks would do to help the situation. Also, the ability to change from high to low mode could affect things greatly, having more attack or in one mode and more defense in the other. That’s just a hypothesis though, testing is needed. Try it whenever you get a dynamite disk

(Jun. 04, 2021  2:44 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:
(Jun. 04, 2021  1:05 AM)Dan Wrote: Yes. I redid Tempest vs. Rage, but used Attack Mode instead, as you alluded to in your request.
I can't imagine it doing better in one spin over another, Xtend+ would still be Xtend+. It is possible a specific Ring may come along and be strong enough to carry Xtend+'s propensity to get yeeted, but that is just speculation, and would probably be unhealthy on other Drivers anyway.

I think tempest has too much recoil? I used world and it slammed into Rage without letting rage give it recoil? Maybe just that it needs to be light?
I already mentioned I only tried this World Xtend+ 1A combo so idk about tempest

Maybe you were fighting stock rage, destroy’ is weaker than Xtreme

Could Volcanic’ Awakened work for anti-attack? It has been used for tornado stalkers in the past so it has the stamina to outlast a lot of things, and the friction it has is a lot so it could deliver hard hits. Not sure though

Im probably just wrong though