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+---- Thread: Takara Tomy Knockout (Gen) Testing and Discussion (/Thread-Takara-Tomy-Knockout-Gen-Testing-and-Discussion)
Knockout (Gen) Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 06, 2021
So far all the allowed GT bases are either complete flops or just downright bad.
I decided to do testing for something more, well, meta
Knockout has always been on my mind, it has similar shape to Z Achilles, and the weight is not the most dangerous.
I'll be testing it's capabilities against Meta beys and the stats of the layer.
Do post testing here, trying to revive the limited subforum.
(The Knockout is my friends, I won't be able to do testing soon.)
Mirror Test:
dC.00C.At (MGC/MAC) VS KO.00C.At 幻
dC: 20 OS
KO: 0 Wins
dC Win Rate 100%
Do note dC was one click away from bursting almost every match.
KO probably lost cos of dC's gimmick
dF.00C.At (MAC) VS KO.00C.At 幻
20 Ties
I swapped my Atomic's around at this point.
KO: 15 KOs,5 BFs
dF: 0 Wins
KO Win Rate 100%
Do note the 40 ties.
From these I can tell that KO has below average stamina, but it seems to have decent recoil.
It also did better on the Mold III Atomic.
aB.00C.At VS KO.00C.At 幻
aB: 0 Wins
KO: 20 BFs
KO Win Rate 100%
The Opposite Recoil was enough to burst aB, but to show the true stamina, I decided to weak launch.
aB.00C.At VS KO.00C.At 幻
aB: 20 OS
KO: 0 Wins
aB Win Rate 100%
Then I did it for dF.
dF.00C.At (MAC) VS KO.00C.At 幻
20 Ties
The results were the same, albeit without the recoil given by KO.
KO as such seems to have less stamina than dF, dC, aB.
gF.00C.At VS KO.00C.At 幻
KO: 20 OS
gF: 0 Wins
KO Win Rate 100%
Then I weak Launched.
20 Ties.
KO seems to have slightly more stamina than gF, likely due to gF's unbalanced nature.
Overall Verdict:
Seems that KO has less stamina than many Layers, and the recoil is decent however if the opponents weak launch, the recoil can be easily diluted. KO doesn't seem to be that good in terms of stamina.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 07, 2021
Today I will Test it's attack Capabilities. It will be in comparison to bL when battling against opponents.
Attack Mirror Test:
Do note my Volcanic' is unworn and faster than 3rd Stage Evolution.
KO.00T.Vl' 幻 VS gF.0W.Ω
KO: 5 KOs
gF: 13 OSs, 2 KOs
5 Ties
gF Win Rate 75%
bL.00T.Vl' VS gF.0W.Ω
gF: 14 OSs, 3 KOs
bL: 3 KO
gF Win Rate 85%
Results weren't suprising due to the opposite spin match up for KO, however bL did even worse, suggesting that KO has better attack potential than bL.
KO.00T.Vl' 幻 VS aB.00.Kp'
KO: 10 KOs
aB: 7 KOs, 3 OSs
bL.00T.Vl' VS aB.00.Kp'
bL: 0 Wins
aB: 20 OSs
This match Up showed the proficiency of KO compared to bL. Even in an Opposite spin Match up, KO could go toe to toe with aB.00.Kp', one of the best defence types for limited, and tie. bL on the other hand did much worse even with the same spin match up advantage.
I'm back for more tests!
KO.00T.Vl' 幻 VS dF.00G.Om
KO: 15 KOs
dF: 5 KOs
KO Win Rate 75%
dF Actually did not bad against KO, likely due to my un-oxidised metal ball that carried away the recoil. Plus dF was able to utlise some of those to KO KO (lmao).
bL.00T.Vl' VS dF.00G.Om
bL: 3 BFs, 2 KO
dF: 13 OSs, 2 KOs
dF Win Rate 75%
Like I said earlier, the ball driver really helped, more often than not carrying out real life Shield Crashes and cause Vl' to wobble in the centre at high speeds, wasting stamina.
KO.00T.Vl' 幻 VS dC.00.Kp' (MGC/MAC)
dC: 12 OSs, 5 KOs
KO: 1 BF, 2 KOs
dC Win Rate 85%
bL.00T.Vl' VS dC.00.Kp' (MGC/MAC)
dC: 20 OSs
bL: 0 Wins
dC Win Rate 100%
dC really tanked these Beys, I'd thought KO could do it but seems that dC is too good, I don't have Xtreme' which will probably work well though. In any case, KO probably would win if I used something like Revolve on dC.
Overall Verdict:
KO has better attack than bL on something less uncontrollable like Vl', but likely falls behind Z Achilles for pure attack.
(I am not sure though, could someone help me test KO on X' and also do a comparison to Z Achilles?)
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - AirKingNeo - Feb. 16, 2021
I feel that given Myth is already pretty good, Knockout would be kind of OP.
Not sure why you're using the term "stamina" when referring to opposite spin matchups. You would use the term "LAD" (life after death) for opposite spin matchups.
You should probably test Knockout on drivers like X', Qc', Hn', and/or Ul' as those seem much better suited for raw attack than Vl'. Additionally, Ds' would also be a worthy candidate to test as it is a driver that would allow Knockout to use both its attack and stamina properties.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 17, 2021
(Feb. 16, 2021 10:14 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: I feel that given Myth is already pretty good, Knockout would be kind of OP.
Not sure why you're using the term "stamina" when referring to opposite spin matchups. You would use the term "LAD" (life after death) for opposite spin matchups.
You should probably test Knockout on drivers like X', Qc', Hn', and/or Ul' as those seem much better suited for raw attack than Vl'. Additionally, Ds' would also be a worthy candidate to test as it is a driver that would allow Knockout to use both its attack and stamina properties.
I will try Ul' cos I only have one Qc' or Jl'.
Also I used Vl' because it wasn't worn and had speeds exceeding third evolution.
My Destroy is too worn for attack though.
I also referred to it as stamina because they were spin equalising, and I used Identical combos, so if they lost due to stamina, then the raw stamina of the respective layer was lower than the other.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - AirKingNeo - Feb. 17, 2021
(Feb. 17, 2021 12:31 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:(Feb. 16, 2021 10:14 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: I feel that given Myth is already pretty good, Knockout would be kind of OP.
Not sure why you're using the term "stamina" when referring to opposite spin matchups. You would use the term "LAD" (life after death) for opposite spin matchups.
You should probably test Knockout on drivers like X', Qc', Hn', and/or Ul' as those seem much better suited for raw attack than Vl'. Additionally, Ds' would also be a worthy candidate to test as it is a driver that would allow Knockout to use both its attack and stamina properties.
I will try Ul' cos I only have one Qc' or Jl'.
Also I used Vl' because it wasn't worn and had speeds exceeding third evolution.
My Destroy is too worn for attack though.
I also referred to it as stamina because they were spin equalising, and I used Identical combos, so if they lost due to stamina, then the raw stamina of the respective layer was lower than the other.
Your Ds' is fine and being more worn is better for stamina, which is still fine. Also if you have a Qc', then try Knockout on Qc' vs aC on Atomic.
Its just a terminology thing with LAD.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 17, 2021
(Feb. 17, 2021 3:42 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:I don't have aC, will dC or dF or gF do?(Feb. 17, 2021 12:31 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: I will try Ul' cos I only have one Qc' or Jl'.
Also I used Vl' because it wasn't worn and had speeds exceeding third evolution.
My Destroy is too worn for attack though.
I also referred to it as stamina because they were spin equalising, and I used Identical combos, so if they lost due to stamina, then the raw stamina of the respective layer was lower than the other.
Your Ds' is fine and being more worn is better for stamina, which is still fine. Also if you have a Qc', then try Knockout on Qc' vs aC on Atomic.
Its just a terminology thing with LAD.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - The Blacknight - Feb. 17, 2021
i dont like this. we might as well make a gt format with all the bases and stuff slowly creeping in. its getting stupid. burst limited was for god and some cho-z, but not gt. we should just leave this alone.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 18, 2021
(Feb. 17, 2021 5:11 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: i dont like this. we might as well make a gt format with all the bases and stuff slowly creeping in. its getting stupid. burst limited was for god and some cho-z, but not gt. we should just leave this alone.
The reason I made this is because I think KO deserves a place in limited due to its limited use (pun intended) and it's weight.
Though you definitely have a point, so I am continuing to conduct testing to determine, although there is alr myth, but I never thought it was good tbh.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - The Blacknight - Feb. 18, 2021
(Feb. 18, 2021 1:02 PM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:(Feb. 17, 2021 5:11 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: i dont like this. we might as well make a gt format with all the bases and stuff slowly creeping in. its getting stupid. burst limited was for god and some cho-z, but not gt. we should just leave this alone.
The reason I made this is because I think KO deserves a place in limited due to its limited use (pun intended) and it's weight.
Though you definitely have a point, so I am continuing to conduct testing to determine, although there is alr myth, but I never thought it was good tbh.
I mean, petition to make a gt-cho-z format or smth. knockout was good alternative for zwei and judgement.
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 19, 2021
(Feb. 18, 2021 4:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote:(Feb. 18, 2021 1:02 PM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: The reason I made this is because I think KO deserves a place in limited due to its limited use (pun intended) and it's weight.
Though you definitely have a point, so I am continuing to conduct testing to determine, although there is alr myth, but I never thought it was good tbh.
I mean, petition to make a gt-cho-z format or smth. knockout was good alternative for zwei and judgement.
Good Point, but knockout had a similar weight class to the turbo Beys allowed even with a gen weight so I thought it will be an interesting addition
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - The Blacknight - Feb. 19, 2021
(Feb. 19, 2021 12:07 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote:Dead hades still has a place in this format, and Phoenix and Hercules dominated for a time.(Feb. 18, 2021 4:10 PM)The Blacknight Wrote: I mean, petition to make a gt-cho-z format or smth. knockout was good alternative for zwei and judgement.
Good Point, but knockout had a similar weight class to the turbo Beys allowed even with a gen weight so I thought it will be an interesting addition
RE: Knockout on Gen Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Feb. 19, 2021
(Feb. 19, 2021 2:04 AM)The Blacknight Wrote:(Feb. 19, 2021 12:07 AM)[[ NØBØDY ]] Wrote: Good Point, but knockout had a similar weight class to the turbo Beys allowed even with a gen weight so I thought it will be an interesting additionDead hades still has a place in this format, and Phoenix and Hercules dominated for a time.
No that's too heavy.
The Hasbro Phoenix and Hercules do dominate.