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+---- Thread: Takara Tomy Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion (/Thread-Takara-Tomy-Wizard-Gen-Testing-and-Discussion)
Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - AirKingNeo - Nov. 07, 2020
(Note: As of this thread's opening, Wizard is banned in Burst Limited.)
"Wizard? Isn't adding Bloody and Geist in enough? Also weren't you the guy who started out being against Geist? Plus isn't Wizard a bit, heavy?"
You think Wizard is a defensive layer?? Wizard is a radical, left spin, burst attacker! Its about 15.78 grams (Wizard + Spriggan + Gen), which is heavier than Drain Fafnir, but lighter than Geist, Bloody, and Nightmare. I also would have made a thread for Naked because Naked+Spriggan+Gen is about 13.38 grams, but I don't own it.
These results should show you how bad Wizard's defense is and how weird its attack potential is. I have the second mold of Wizard (Black and White one from WB.00C.Jl' Gen), so my results won't have any random bursting issues.
Same Spin Stamina
Wizard Spriggan.Outer.Orbit Gen vs Drain Fafnir.Outer.Orbit
(Simultaneous launch)
WS.outer.O Gen: 2 wins (2 OS)
dF.outer.O: 8 wins (8 OS)
Ties: 3
Wizard Spriggan.Outer.Orbit Gen vs Geist Fafnir.Outer.Orbit
(Simultaneous launch)
WS.outer.O Gen: 0 wins
gF.outer.O: 10 wins (10 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: I think gF wins in same spin stamina for no reason is because Wizard uses its offensive rubber against Drain, while Geist's defensiveness protects against that, which lets it beat Wizard in same spin stamina.
Opposite Spin LAD
Wizard Spriggan.00Expand.Destroy' Gen vs Twin Nemesis.00Expand.Destroy
(Simultaneous launch)
WS.00E.Ds' Gen: 0 wins
tN.00E.Ds: 10 wins (10 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: Yeah that wide shape in Wizard isn't helping its LAD, though the rubber only slightly compensates. Also, I got another Expand frame so that's why I'm not using Outer for this test anymore.
As a Stamina/Defensive Layer
(Aka, using Wizard incorrectly)
Wizard Spriggan.00Proof.Atomic Gen vs Nightmare Longinus.angle.Jolt
(nL launched second)
WS.00P.At Gen: 2 wins (2 OS)
nL.angle.Jl: 8 wins (8 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: nL won by OS because Wizard would bounce out of the pocket, or off a wall, and then have lost all its stamina, and just fall down or flip over. This was so bad I didn't even test it vs bL.Gn.
As an Equalizer on Ds' which makes it semi attack in same spin matchups
(Probably the most meta way to use it, but not as cool as pure attack)
Wizard Spriggan.00Expand.Destroy' Gen vs Drain Fafnir.00Proof.Atomic
(WS launched second)
WS.00E.Ds' Gen: 8 wins (2 OS, 6 BF)
dF.00P.At: 2 wins (2 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: Yeah so this combo just kills dF on Atomic. Based on the same spin test vs gF, the attack test vs gF later in this thread, and Destroy's lack of attack power, I decided not to test gF.00P.At against this Wizard combo assuming gF would win. Probably worth testing by someone, but honestly later tests will show not having tested this isn't really a huge issue (because any right spin layer just walls Wizard).
I don't have two Destroy', so I can't test Wizard on Ds' vs Drain on Ds'. Probably worth testing.
Wizard Spriggan.00Expand.Destroy' Gen vs Nightmare Longinus.angle.Jolt
(nL launched second)
WS.00E.Ds' Gen: 3 wins (2 OS, 1 BF)
nL.angle.Jl: 7 wins (7 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: Yeah that random burst on nL occured because I don't have Jolt' and only normal Jolt. I choose to use Jolt over Qc'/X' due to personal launching issues. Otherwise, this match went the same as the previous vs nL matchup, where Wizard got knocked around, hit a wall, and lose all stamina.
As an Attack Layer
(The coolest way to use Wizard)
Wizard Spriggan.00angle.Quick' Gen vs Drain Fafnir.00Proof.Atomic
(WS launched second)
WS.00a.Qc' Gen: 10 wins (10 BF)
dF.00P.At: 0 wins
Ties: 0
Wizard Spriggan.00angle.Quick' Gen vs Geist Fafnir.00Proof.Atomic
(WS launched second)
WS.00a.Qc' Gen: 4 wins (2 KO, 2 BF)
gF.00P.At: 6 wins (6 OS)
Ties: 0
Wizard Spriggan.00angle.Quick' Gen vs Drain Fafnir.00Expand.Destroy'
(WS launched second)
WS.00a.Qc' Gen: 7 wins (4 OS, 3 KO)
dF.00E.Ds': 3 wins (3 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: Not really sure how Wizard won rounds by OS. I guess the attack power just killed the stamina of Drain.
Wizard Spriggan.00angle.Quick' Gen vs Alter Chronos.00Proof.Atomic
(WS launched second)
WS.00a.Qc' Gen: 3 wins (3 KO)
aC.00P.At: 7 wins (7 OS)
Ties: 0
Notes: Wizard doesn't have the weight and upper attack that nL/bL have to take on right spin layers.
Wizard is a weird layer that hard counters Drain Fafnir, probably gets walled by or goes even with Geist Fafnir, is hard countered by Longinus layers, and its attack variant is walled by any right spin layer. The only holes in testing that would need to be filled are Wizard on Ds' vs gF on Atomic, Wizard vs Drain with both on Ds' mirror, and Wizard on Ds' vs practical right spin combos with decent amounts of LAD.
I'm leading towards advocating unbanning Wizard, but I also think making sure a Destroy' combo on it isn't overpowered with the potentially of only being consistently beaten by Longinus beys is something worth doing.
RE: Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - 6Jupiter5 - Nov. 07, 2020
The real problem is the spin equalization in my opinion
RE: Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - AirKingNeo - Nov. 07, 2020
Ok actually there were other combos I did not realize should be tested for Wizard as Armor in the discord informed me off Bearing/Mobius combos using Drain Fafnir would be an option.
Bearing/Mobius combos using Wizard Gen would probably getting beaten up by bL/nL like the Atomic combo of Wizard does, getting tossed around into losing all its stamina. However, if Gen and mold-2 Wizard are sufficient, Bearing would not burst like how it would with Drain Fafnir. As compared to Geist Fafnir, I have no clue. I cannot test Wizard on Bearing/Mobius since I do not own either driver.
Another thing to note is the ratio of Defense to LAD Wizard has. Drain Fafnir has low defense, good LAD, and good stamina. Geist Fafnir loses LAD and stamina but has superb defense. Wizard amazing burst attack, but low weight for a left spin attacker, likely has defense somewhere between Geist and Drain, its stamina is worse both Drain and Geist (especially worse when facing Geist it seems) to the point where left spin attackers beat it by outspin, but its LAD capabilities compared to the others I am not sure of. I can test this with Eternal (I have both a good and bad mold it seems, or my bad one is just worn), Destroy('), and Atomic, but I don't have Bearing. Defense and stamina don't really matter for left spin when looking at opposite spin matchups, which is where LAD is the only factor. We would have to make sure the LAD capabilities of Wizard are weak enough so that a Ds' combo has meaningful counters in right spin. So far, it seems like smaller right spin layers on the same driver beat it in LAD.
RE: Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - AirKingNeo - Nov. 07, 2020
Ok so I did a few more Wizard tests:
Wizard Spriggan.00Expand.Destroy' Gen vs Geist Fafnir.00Proof.Atomic
(WS launched second)
WS.00E.Ds' Gen: 5 wins (3 OS, 2 BF)
gF.00P.At: 5 wins (5 OS)
Ties: 0
Wizard Spriggan.00Expand.Destroy' Gen vs Bloody Longinus.Generate
(Alternating launches)
WS.00E.Ds' Gen: 2 wins (2 BF)
bL.Gn: 8 wins (6 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 0
It seems like Wizard trades Geist's defense for attack power, while still having similar defense in opposite spin. Which sort of makes it overpowered. Geist is countered by right LAD beys and Drain Fafnir, and checked by either Longinus. Drain is countered by either Longinus, and checked by right spin KO attackers. Geist is countered by either Longinus but with less risk than dF and by right LAD, but checked by virtually nothing.
The idea is that Drain Fafnir can win opposite spin matchups easily, but with significant risk against same spin attack types that can burst it. Geist Fafnir is more defensive in every way, but opens itself up in same spin stamina and opposite spin LAD. Wizard throws away all defense from same spin matchups besides burst resistance, but obtains significant offensive power in same spin for it while still having improved opposite spin defense.
Overall, I think Wizard with Gen is just a little too good for Burst Limited. Its beatable in a deck format easily if the deck contains bL/nL, but in first stage its way too safe of a pick.
RE: Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - 6Jupiter5 - Nov. 14, 2020
Wizard Diabolos gen outer rise vs Archer Hercules outer absorb-s
Wizard: 90% (9 os)
Hercules: 10% (1 os)
RE: Wizard (Gen) Testing and Discussion - [[ NØBØDY ]] - Nov. 22, 2020
So Wizard seems like a Left Spin Judgement in limited, but not too good however still too OP for limited