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+--- Thread: Let us discuss weight distribution (/Thread-Let-us-discuss-weight-distribution)
Let us discuss weight distribution - Creeperalpha - Jun. 02, 2019
Weight distribution-one of the stats that can be the deciding point between winning and losing
there are various weight distribution types
weight focused in one piont can be great at ko a burst potential but has little stamina and is unstable
weight focused in the outer area of the bey can increase stamina
weight focused in the inner area of the bey can increase ko resistance
wait but there is more
i have seen and tested this
if the layer has more weight than the disc it has great burst resistance because there is only little other acting force to skip the teeth
when the disc has more weight than the layer then it ha sthe opposite effect
idk about the tip TT or hasbro is not crazy to make a full metal driver. are they?
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - CitrusNinja3 - Jun. 02, 2019
One thing that you probably didn’t think to add. The Center of Gravity. The Center of Gravity is the spot in an object that indicates the halfway point of the weight. If the top half has more weight than the bottom half, the center of gravity will be somewhere in the upper half of the object, and vice versa. An object with high Center of Gravity (referred to as top-heavy) is easier to knock down than an object with a lower Center of Gravity, while a centralized COG is decently well balanced. Drivers like Charge and Ωcta give a combo a lower COG by a lot, while the Perfect Phoenix Layer raises the COG a lot, specifically when the armor is on. Also, using a taller or shorter Driver will change the COG.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - AirKingNeo - Jun. 02, 2019
(Jun. 02, 2019 1:50 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: One thing that you probably didn’t think to add. The Center of Gravity. The Center of Gravity is the spot in an object that indicates the halfway point of the weight. If the top half has more weight than the bottom half, the center of gravity will be somewhere in the upper half of the object, and vice versa. An object with high Center of Gravity (referred to as top-heavy) is easier to knock down than an object with a lower Center of Gravity, while a centralized COG is decently well balanced. Drivers like Charge and Ωcta give a combo a lower COG by a lot, while the Perfect Phoenix Layer raises the COG a lot, specifically when the armor is on. Also, using a taller or shorter Driver will change the COG.
A higher center of gravity isn't easy to knock down. That goes against basic physics of rotational inertia. Do you remember Flame Byxis from Metal Fight?
Rotational inertia is described as mass x radius^2. A taller bey (high center of gravity) would have more radius, so it has more rotational inertia, therefore harder to knock down.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - MagikHorse - Jun. 02, 2019
(Jun. 02, 2019 6:04 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: A higher center of gravity isn't easy to knock down. That goes against basic physics of rotational inertia. Do you remember Flame Byxis from Metal Fight?
Rotational inertia is described as mass x radius^2. A taller bey (high center of gravity) would have more radius, so it has more rotational inertia, therefore harder to knock down.
The radius is half the width, so height has nothing to do with the radius at all. It might weigh marginally more, but the gain of energy from the weight difference is negligible if it has to spend extra energy righting itself, which it will if it ever gets knocked off-kilter.
Flame Byxis' 230 track actually proves Citrus' point, not yours. Flame Byxis did so well mostly because of its Wide Defense tip and rounded shape, mitigating its poor balance and reducing the impact of blows. Even then it can take more time to right itself if it does get knocked off balance, and on small tips like Sharp 230 can seriously struggle to recover if it gets knocked over at all. If you can make any sort of contact with its fusion wheel it has to spend energy righting itself, which is why 145 is often able to outspin it.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - AirKingNeo - Jun. 02, 2019
(Jun. 02, 2019 7:46 PM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jun. 02, 2019 6:04 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: A higher center of gravity isn't easy to knock down. That goes against basic physics of rotational inertia. Do you remember Flame Byxis from Metal Fight?
Rotational inertia is described as mass x radius^2. A taller bey (high center of gravity) would have more radius, so it has more rotational inertia, therefore harder to knock down.
The radius is half the width, so height has nothing to do with the radius at all. It might weigh marginally more, but the gain of energy from the weight difference is negligible if it has to spend extra energy righting itself, which it will if it ever gets knocked off-kilter.
Flame Byxis' 230 track actually proves Citrus' point, not yours. Flame Byxis did so well mostly because of its Wide Defense tip and rounded shape, mitigating its poor balance and reducing the impact of blows. Even then it can take more time to right itself if it does get knocked off balance, and on small tips like Sharp 230 can seriously struggle to recover if it gets knocked over at all. If you can make any sort of contact with its fusion wheel it has to spend energy righting itself, which is why 145 is often able to outspin it.
The radius I am talking about is not of the layer from a top view, but the distance between the center of mass and the point where the bey touches the stadium from a side view. The bey can wobble from side to side when knocked off balance, which is a circular motion (look at it from a 2D side view), so the higher up the center of mass is the more distance it has from the floor, so the more rotational inertia with respect to the floor (going off balance). Again, not about the radius of the layer, but the distance between the floor and the center of mass (which is a radius).
Except 230 Sharp struggled to get back up because of Sharp. A lower height bey can be hit at its center of mass, putting it back upright, where 230 Sharp cannot. However, if you just took an off-balance 230 Sharp vs off-balance 145 Sharp, the 230 Sharp is going to stay up for longer. Burst doesn't have tips like Sharp where you can tilt and not recover, so this application does not apply. Plus switching to Sharp wouldn't change the fact that 230 WD stands up better than 145 WD.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - MagikHorse - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 02, 2019 11:05 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: *snip*How does any of this apply to how easy it's knocked off balance to begin with? It's one thing to wobble for longer and another to be easier to knock off balance, which is what the argument's all about.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - AirKingNeo - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 12:31 AM)MagikHorse Wrote:(Jun. 02, 2019 11:05 PM)AirKingNeo Wrote: *snip*How does any of this apply to how easy it's knocked off balance to begin with? It's one thing to wobble for longer and another to be easier to knock off balance, which is what the argument's all about.
Sharp tips wobble because they, by nature, don't have a natural way to get back up. Beyblade Burst avoids this issue by making stamina tips wide enough to always pick themselves back up. A low height bey on sharp will be hit back upright, but a tall one will resist being hit back upright because it takes more force to do so.
It is harder to knock a tall bey off balance since the center of mass is further from the pivot (the bottom of the bey where the driver touches the stadium) because that's how rotational inertia works.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - MWF - Jun. 03, 2019
(Jun. 03, 2019 1:48 AM)AirKingNeo Wrote:(Jun. 03, 2019 12:31 AM)MagikHorse Wrote: How does any of this apply to how easy it's knocked off balance to begin with? It's one thing to wobble for longer and another to be easier to knock off balance, which is what the argument's all about.
Sharp tips wobble because they, by nature, don't have a natural way to get back up. Beyblade Burst avoids this issue by making stamina tips wide enough to always pick themselves back up. A low height bey on sharp will be hit back upright, but a tall one will resist being hit back upright because it takes more force to do so.
It is harder to knock a tall bey off balance since the center of mass is further from the pivot (the bottom of the bey where the driver touches the stadium) because that's how rotational inertia works.
The higher the center of mass the more unstable it is.
An object will fall when it's center of mass is no longer above its base.
Higher the center of mass the less the object has to tilt to reach the tipping point.
That is why most attack types are on 90 100 or 105 because the center of mass is so low that it will be able to be launched at an angle and do a flower pattern without tipping over and wasting it's stamina on scraping to get back up.
230 is best with a fusion wheel with high OWD to take advantage of the gyroscopic flywheel effect. An object that is rotating generally will not tilt its axis of rotation.
You also have to take into effect the other beyblade. If the 230 combo is in its toppled state and is trying to right itself the opponent will be able to hit the fusion wheel either from the top or from the bottom causing knockback further ruining the combos stamina and keeping it in the toppled state.
Ideally you would use a mid hight track or the bearing drive to lower the center of mass and to prevent scraping from being too low. Using B : D would help when it does eventually tip over by allowing it to spin without scraping.
RE: Let us discuss weight distribution - Creeperalpha - Jun. 03, 2019
It depends on the weight of the layer. if the enemy bey has more weight than the other bey. it can make the other bey wobble. but it depends on its weight. if its only a litlle bit heavier it will have little effect.
against same spin opponents if a heavy bey hits a light bey that has more weight in the layer (both in high velocity) the kinetic energy of the impact (which the heavy bey will have superior effect) can tilt the bey away from its COG and tip over (same as light attack beys)