(Jun. 07, 2012  3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote:

Spoiler (Click to View)

If it actually works then it'll hopefully spur people to do exactly what you're doing, which is exactly what is lacking in this community right now and causing most of the issues: actually tinkering with stuff and finding uses for parts rather than settling for cookie cutter combos. Even if great things don't come from it instantly, keep tinkering until you find something.

Also, it exemplifies that Chemistry is important and good and something people should look for. Obviously it is just the right height and distribution for Fusion physically. This actually affects most combos but not that many are noticeable, but then again, the 1:30 increase in stamina for Phantom ___ AD145WD from the seemingly minor change from aquario to cancer is quite something.

The experimentation actually used to be a common thing but recently it has only appeared in a couple of isolated cases.

Basically, I don't have fusion, cannot offer much input (though testing from anyone would be really good for that, especially as it might give 135 some use), but I'm REALLY, REALLY glad to see someone still has the true spirit that fuels this forum and separates good members from great members. Keep it up, keep tinkering away, and good things will eventually come of it.

Everyone else: this is an example of what all of you with access to the parts should be doing, rather than settling for cookie-cutter combos, and exactly what this forum, and the game of beyblade needs. Test parts that are just average/middling and find a way to make them work - I'm not talking about stuff like LF or Q (though there could perhaps even be use for those), I'm not talking about gimmick combinations, I'm talking combinations that actually work for at least the majority of people, are as versatile as any combination on the top tier list.

I find the best incentive is to work as if you have a tournament coming up and want to find something, an ace in the hole, to pull out that is so unusual that no one will know how to counter it, and even better, won't expect it to beat them until it starts wiping the floor with everyone and everything. Find out everything about that combo, weaknesses, strengths, imagine someone takes the parts and copies it off you, be prepared to deal with that (and remember, you will still have the advantage of understanding the combination).

Honestly, that's rambly, just do whatever it takes to not just look outside the box, but to force the box to change shape to account for it. Experiment, share, collaborate (that's a big one - working with a partner can be a huge motivator), help others do the same, and so on.

Perhaps MFB is at a point where only cookie cutter combinations are effective, and if that is the case then there is nothing to do, however, I do not think it has reached that point yet, where it is beyond someone finding something new and exciting.

Yes, there have been some small incidents of this, but this is what a huge number of people used to do, not a tiny selection.

(Jun. 08, 2012  1:33 AM)Vortex-S Wrote:

(Jun. 07, 2012  3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote:

Spoiler (Click to View)

If it actually works then it'll hopefully spur people to do exactly what you're doing, which is exactly what is lacking in this community right now and causing most of the issues: actually tinkering with stuff and finding uses for parts rather than settling for cookie cutter combos. Even if great things don't come from it instantly, keep tinkering until you find something.

Also, it exemplifies that Chemistry is important and good and something people should look for. Obviously it is just the right height and distribution for Fusion physically. This actually affects most combos but not that many are noticeable, but then again, the 1:30 increase in stamina for Phantom ___ AD145WD from the seemingly minor change from aquario to cancer is quite something.

The experimentation actually used to be a common thing but recently it has only appeared in a couple of isolated cases.

Basically, I don't have fusion, cannot offer much input (though testing from anyone would be really good for that, especially as it might give 135 some use), but I'm REALLY, REALLY glad to see someone still has the true spirit that fuels this forum and separates good members from great members. [b]Keep it up, keep tinkering away, and good things will eventually come of it.

Everyone else: this is an example of what all of you with access to the parts should be doing, rather than settling for cookie-cutter combos, and exactly what this forum, and the game of beyblade needs. Test parts that are just average/middling and find a way to make them work - I'm not talking about stuff like LF or Q (though there could perhaps even be use for those), I'm not talking about gimmick combinations, I'm talking combinations that actually work for at least the majority of people, are as versatile as any combination on the top tier list.

I find the best incentive is to work as if you have a tournament coming up and want to find something, an ace in the hole, to pull out that is so unusual that no one will know how to counter it, and even better, won't expect it to beat them until it starts wiping the floor with everyone and everything. Find out everything about that combo, weaknesses, strengths, imagine someone takes the parts and copies it off you, be prepared to deal with that (and remember, you will still have the advantage of understanding the combination).

Honestly, that's rambly, just do whatever it takes to not just look outside the box, but to force the box to change shape to account for it. Experiment, share, collaborate (that's a big one - working with a partner can be a huge motivator), help others do the same, and so on.

Perhaps MFB is at a point where only cookie cutter combinations are effective, and if that is the case then there is nothing to do, however, I do not think it has reached that point yet, where it is beyond someone finding something new and exciting.

Yes, there have been some small incidents of this, but this is what a huge number of people used to do, not a tiny selection.

Whenever th!nk starts one of his scary beyblade rants,I highlight the text and let my iPhone read it.The computerized woman's voice is weird.

(Jun. 07, 2012  8:36 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: I don't own the part but would DS suffice? Also, is Destroy not better than Guardian for spin steal?

(Jun. 07, 2012  11:25 PM)GM Phantom Wrote:

(Jun. 07, 2012  8:31 PM)Ingulit Wrote:

(Jun. 07, 2012  6:55 PM)GM Phantom Wrote: Speaking of which, some testing I did a while ago shows that Jade Capricorne AD145WD beats Phantom Cancer TH170D most of the time. And then I beat a MF Basalt Aquario 230CS with it. Both of the test combos are outclassed, but still, it's a decent combo.

Actually, Phantom Cancer TH170D is still a pretty darn good Stamina type. How did the custom do against shorter stamina beys? If it was doing well against tall foes, that might also mean Jade can destabilize (I don't have the part, I'm just speculating).

Actually, it mainly depends on the height of the TH170. at 170, the result was 6-4 Cancer. at 195 and 230, Capricorne won 90% and 80% of the time, respectively. I think some of it may have been the "horns" on the Capricorne CW; I've seen Capricorne combos do well against 230 beys before. BTW, and not that anyone really cares, but the way i came up with Jade Capricorne was by thinking if Grand Capricorne evolved.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:40 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Personally, I doubt CF would beat EWD for spin-stealing ...

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:18 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: Neat! I should be able to try that out when I get back.

One other combo I'd like to mention is Burn Lacerta 135SD. It works particularly well as an "old" Stamina combo. Has a weird way of surviving hits, too (let's just say my brother launched it across a room, and it was spinning when it landed there).

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:05 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: My next suggestion for a spin stealer tip would be CF. The ring should keep it upright even when its rpm is too slow to do so on any other tip, giving it a better shot at survival. Also, it's the heaviest tip in existance except perhaps GCF.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:17 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: DRACO- Hm, CF might be a decent thing to use in a spin steal combination...
I wonder how safe would it be, though. After all, its a flat tip, and a sudden aggressive movement (which is very much possible upon gaining enough RPM through spin stealing) might even lead to a loss...
Or, it can even be regarded as a successor of MLD CH120XF, which defeated opponents through Tornado Stalling.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:17 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: As for DS, that has been my favorite tip since I got into MFB. It actually stabilizes very well later on in the game and has helped me beat certain Stamina customs when used on a spin-steal combo, and vice versa.
Then again, what I faced can be regarded as outdated anyway...
Hence I cannot say, with true proof, that its a nice tip or not...

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:25 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: EDIT: Ingulit: do you have a bunch of GB145s and a magnet?

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:46 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Ah, I'd once proposed a theory of having different groups of classification instead of the three we have at the moment(at the moment, we usually classify parts as Top Tier, Niche, and of course- Outclassed), which was appreciated by certain members, but wasn't adopted.

I actually would have liked classification of parts into these groups- Underused, Overused, Out of use, etc.
This is because, outclassed is a very bold term to use sometimes.

I actually completely agree to what th!nk said. Having a thread like that would be a great thing to have. It certainly would have its disadvantages, most of which would be extremely annoying for our Mods and Admins, so I don't see it coming soon.
But well, reviving the parts which were "killed" by the current top tiers is a good idea!

Still, considering that the current top tiers are WAY too strong, it might be difficult to use outdated parts for making counters to these. As th!nk already said, Metal Wheels do outrank one another. And considering that a Metal Wheel plays an important role in determining the uses and the strength of a combo, it might be worth considering that certain metal wheels are truly outclassed, and finding a use for them is difficult.
Even if it does get useful, it will only manage to get into the "Niche Use" category.

For instance, the person who started this whole discussion here(i.e. Ingulit) is trying his level best to find some use for Fusion. He did succeed, but he still knows that his combo will ALWAYS be dominated by the top tiers of the game(he said that Flash is a major problem for his combo).

Actually, I should not even be writing about this, as I never really understood as to what factor decides whether a good part is outclassed by another good part or not. But well, I am sure that I am not the only person to not know this.
The main thing is, only an Attack part can outclass another Attack part. A Defense part can NEVER "outclass" an Attack part, because this is not what the term "outclass" means.
At the most, a Defense part can only put an Attack part "out of use". Why?
Defense is meant to counter Attack. If the Defender does it successfully, it can very well put the Attacker out of use.

The most notable example for what I said above, is of course, Lightning L Drago, which was put out of use(though not entirely) after Basalt started dominating.

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:09 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: When I was messing around with random parts one day, (keep in mind that this was before I joined the WBO) I actually found a combo that worked fairly well in Hasbro stadiums, as well as some old combos. It was Flame Aquario ED145HF/S, which is very similar to th!nk's "White Whale" combo (which I was unaware of at the time). The point of the combo is to expose ED145 as much as possible, and since Flame tends to do that and HF/S is a fairly tall tip, it blocks hits fairly well. It also works decently in both tip modes.
However, as I mentioned before, I only recall using it against "old" combos. I'll try playing around with it more when I get back from vacation on the weekend.
EDIT: What other roundish MWs are good for exposing tracks?

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:11 PM)Fantomu Wrote: Hell would probably work better. It exposes even more of ED145's "wings" and is heavier than Flame.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:40 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Personally, I doubt CF would beat EWD for spin-stealing ...

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: I'm mostly interested in two parts: Destabilisation, or whatever it was MF MLD CH120XF did, and Life After Death.

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:11 PM)Fantomu Wrote: Hell would probably work better. It exposes even more of ED145's "wings" and is heavier than Flame.