World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.
Beyblade Random Thoughts - Printable Version

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RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dusk - Jun. 08, 2012

He may be wondering where Lemos gets his beyblades so that he has a better idea of where he could look to buy them, but ok.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - sarabscientist - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 07, 2012  3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote:
Whenever th!nk starts one of his scary beyblade rants,I highlight the text and let my iPhone read it.The computerized woman's voice is weird.



RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - *Ginga* - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 08, 2012  1:33 AM)Vortex-S Wrote:
(Jun. 07, 2012  3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote:
Whenever th!nk starts one of his scary beyblade rants,I highlight the text and let my iPhone read it.The computerized woman's voice is weird.

Haha, so you don't want to hurt your brain by reading it, because a vast majority of it is BORING!
Words
LOL


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Fantomu - Jun. 08, 2012

Then why don't you try to write 9 paragraphs of text that will actually be useful someday and try to make it interesting. And if you hurt your brain by reading that, you should really go for a check-up.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - *Ginga* - Jun. 08, 2012

Look, I know, but it was just a joke....
Sorry Unhappy


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Ingulit - Jun. 08, 2012


(Jun. 07, 2012  8:36 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: I don't own the part but would DS suffice? Also, is Destroy not better than Guardian for spin steal?
DS is the same height as the other D variants, unfortunately, though EDS might work. I'm getting a new one in the mail soon and LDG TR145EDS will be the first thing I test.

Destroy would probably be better, but I was using LDG because of its extra weight in the hopes of making a "safer" spin-equalizer than the ultra-light Meteo. Also, I recently got a penny scale and found out that my LDG is particularly heavy (46.9 grams, which is actually heavier than one of my Basalts), so I wanted to try to find a way to abuse that.
(Jun. 07, 2012  11:25 PM)GM Phantom Wrote:
(Jun. 07, 2012  8:31 PM)Ingulit Wrote:
(Jun. 07, 2012  6:55 PM)GM Phantom Wrote: Speaking of which, some testing I did a while ago shows that Jade Capricorne AD145WD beats Phantom Cancer TH170D most of the time. And then I beat a MF Basalt Aquario 230CS with it. Both of the test combos are outclassed, but still, it's a decent combo.
Actually, Phantom Cancer TH170D is still a pretty darn good Stamina type. How did the custom do against shorter stamina beys? If it was doing well against tall foes, that might also mean Jade can destabilize (I don't have the part, I'm just speculating).
Actually, it mainly depends on the height of the TH170. at 170, the result was 6-4 Cancer. at 195 and 230, Capricorne won 90% and 80% of the time, respectively. I think some of it may have been the "horns" on the Capricorne CW; I've seen Capricorne combos do well against 230 beys before. BTW, and not that anyone really cares, but the way i came up with Jade Capricorne was by thinking if Grand Capricorne evolved.

Nah, that's cool, any way to come up with new ideas is a good idea Grin

You really think it was Capricorne doing the destabilizing instead of Jade? Does Jade let the clear wheel get a lot of contact? If it does, it might have a (very, very small, practically microscopic) niche as being good for clear wheel attackers, in which case you might try Quetz or Crown as well (what other clear wheels are good for clear wheel attacking again?).


Something else I've found: I know destabilizers have really fallen out of style nowadays, but for those who still like them, SWD is one of the best (if not the best) tips for destabilizers I've ever seen. The reason is that the sharp tip protrudes far enough down that it enables the bey to spin at an angle while staying in the center, unlike the other D variants that start to move and lose stamina when they tilt. This allows the bey to really get under the opposing wheel for destabilization while still staying in the center (and thus continuing to make contact with the opposing bey), and SWD's outer ring enables it to still spin for about as long the D variants (just a little less stamina, as has been shown in its testing thread). So, for those who are still destabilizer enthusiasts, I would go so far as to say SWD is probably the best tip you can get.

One of the things I'm actually testing right now is using Scythe and EDS as a sort of destabilizer custom based on the fact that Scythe is thin enough to fit between BD145 and a LOT of wheels (not Duo, Death, Scythe, or the like, but wheels like Phantom that leave a large gap). I'm not sure if it will work even the slightest bit, but I'm gonna try!


EDIT: If people are interested, I could make a thread at some point with all the random stuff I've found, because lord knows there's a lot of it. I know that's what this thread is supposed to be in theory, but it's turned into more of a social thread than one about actual random Beyblade thoughts and discoveries.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dracomageat - Jun. 08, 2012

My next suggestion for a spin stealer tip would be CF. The ring should keep it upright even when its rpm is too slow to do so on any other tip, giving it a better shot at survival. Also, it's the heaviest tip in existance except perhaps GCF.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Janstarblast - Jun. 08, 2012

DRACO- Hm, CF might be a decent thing to use in a spin steal combination...
I wonder how safe would it be, though. After all, its a flat tip, and a sudden aggressive movement (which is very much possible upon gaining enough RPM through spin stealing) might even lead to a loss...
Or, it can even be regarded as a successor of MLD CH120XF, which defeated opponents through Tornado Stalling.

As for DS, that has been my favorite tip since I got into MFB. It actually stabilizes very well later on in the game and has helped me beat certain Stamina customs when used on a spin-steal combo, and vice versa.
Then again, what I faced can be regarded as outdated anyway...
Hence I cannot say, with true proof, that its a nice tip or not...

Being the owner of an unusually small beyblade collection, I always really have to try some unorthodox stuff. So I might help with this initiative of trying out certain outrageous things, haha!




RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dracomageat - Jun. 08, 2012

That was my worry with CF but I'm pretty sure that, assuming your angular momentum is weaker by a reasonable margin (through weight or spin speed), the spin gain should off-balance the CF bey a bit, causing CF's ring to hinder its motion enough to prevent KO and quickly reduce spin speed until it returns to the center. This is just theory though since I own no Zero G but it's the most promising use of CF I can think of.

EDIT: Ingulit: do you have a bunch of GB145s and a magnet?


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - th!nk - Jun. 08, 2012

A thread like that, I really think it would be a great thing to have, especially if we can limit *some* of the cynicism that pervades many other threads (though not to the point of discussing truly ridiculous and impossible things as possible "ultamit comboz" or whatever). I will talk to the staff about it, methinks.

Re: calling parts outclassed, there are valid arguments on both sides but for things like tips, it's hard for a part to truly be outclassed, especially permanently. With wheels, the weight increases over time certainly allow for some parts to be completely outclassed by others, but in terms of tracks and such, we could go easier, I mean, I recall reading 145 works better than AD145 in the hasbro fireblaze stadium because it doesn't hit the floor as much due to being thinner, and so on. "Does not currently find any use in competitive customization" would probably be a better way of terming it for such parts. I also agree that beywiki should pay more attention to describing the limited uses "bad" parts have than instantly dismissing them with no real description. I mean, sometimes, yes, there are parts that really are just that bad, but even then we should be explaining how they are so bad (which is something I did in the griffolyon article when discussing the base, for example).

I am pretty quick to dismiss some parts (notably LF), and that probably is sometimes hasty of me. though XF, WF, MF, HF and HF/S mean it is always going to have a lot of trouble standing out, and that's probably not been a good thing for the forum (though I still reserve the right to blast people for recommending it in Build Me A Combo, until/unless someone does find a combo it works in), but in my opinion it is somewhat an issue of balancing open-mindedness and being sensible/recommending good things, so neither side should be demonising the other.

Really just another ramble, but I'd definitely like to see a thread like that, while testing would need to be done to justify things, given a lot of what has been said in this discussion there's also a lot to be said for simple discourse, as that can provide others with new ideas and inspiration.

As for the CF Stuff: I really want to see it looked into as well. I was actually looking forward to the part as it provides something for things to sit upon for illegal combos, but I'm also curious to see more from it in BB-10, given the disk and everything...

Fantomu: Thanks very much for that, much more succinct and pleasant than my response would have been. Smile


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Jun. 08, 2012

Personally, I doubt CF would beat EWD for spin-stealing ...


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Janstarblast - Jun. 08, 2012

Ah, I'd once proposed a theory of having different groups of classification instead of the three we have at the moment(at the moment, we usually classify parts as Top Tier, Niche, and of course- Outclassed), which was appreciated by certain members, but wasn't adopted.

I actually would have liked classification of parts into these groups- Underused, Overused, Out of use, etc.
This is because, outclassed is a very bold term to use sometimes.

I actually completely agree to what th!nk said. Having a thread like that would be a great thing to have. It certainly would have its disadvantages, most of which would be extremely annoying for our Mods and Admins, so I don't see it coming soon.
But well, reviving the parts which were "killed" by the current top tiers is a good idea!

Still, considering that the current top tiers are WAY too strong, it might be difficult to use outdated parts for making counters to these. As th!nk already said, Metal Wheels do outrank one another. And considering that a Metal Wheel plays an important role in determining the uses and the strength of a combo, it might be worth considering that certain metal wheels are truly outclassed, and finding a use for them is difficult.
Even if it does get useful, it will only manage to get into the "Niche Use" category.

For instance, the person who started this whole discussion here(i.e. Ingulit) is trying his level best to find some use for Fusion. He did succeed, but he still knows that his combo will ALWAYS be dominated by the top tiers of the game(he said that Flash is a major problem for his combo).

Actually, I should not even be writing about this, as I never really understood as to what factor decides whether a good part is outclassed by another good part or not. But well, I am sure that I am not the only person to not know this.
The main thing is, only an Attack part can outclass another Attack part. A Defense part can NEVER "outclass" an Attack part, because this is not what the term "outclass" means.
At the most, a Defense part can only put an Attack part "out of use". Why?
Defense is meant to counter Attack. If the Defender does it successfully, it can very well put the Attacker out of use.

The most notable example for what I said above, is of course, Lightning L Drago, which was put out of use(though not entirely) after Basalt started dominating.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dracomageat - Jun. 08, 2012

Stick R145 on it and it chucks Bassalt around like there's no tomorrow.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Janstarblast - Jun. 08, 2012

Well, I was talking about the time when it first came, haha!
I wonder why what you said didn't happen back then, but yeah! What you said is true, but Basalt did strike a nail into LLD's coffin. The final nail in the coffin though, were probably the 4D Attackers. And the first 4D Attacker was probably Fang... So, Fang is what finally ended LLD's reign(then again, we are entirely forgetting Gravity here! XD).


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - th!nk - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:40 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Personally, I doubt CF would beat EWD for spin-stealing ...

I'm mostly interested in two parts: Destabilisation, or whatever it was MF MLD CH120XF did, and Life After Death. I'd generally just like to see more testing on it for that, though we don't have any really great spin-stealer wheels from the limited selection Left-Spin provides us, it is still a part that I think needs to be kept in mind for the future, and experimented with more often.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dracomageat - Jun. 08, 2012

From my experience, Gravity is about on par with LLDR145. I guess Gravity R145 might surpass it though, I don't have a second R145...


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - 50uNdW4v3 - Jun. 08, 2012

When I was messing around with random parts one day, (keep in mind that this was before I joined the WBO) I actually found a combo that worked fairly well in Hasbro stadiums, as well as some old combos. It was Flame Aquario ED145HF/S, which is very similar to th!nk's "White Whale" combo (which I was unaware of at the time). The point of the combo is to expose ED145 as much as possible, and since Flame tends to do that and HF/S is a fairly tall tip, it blocks hits fairly well. It also works decently in both tip modes.
However, as I mentioned before, I only recall using it against "old" combos. I'll try playing around with it more when I get back from vacation on the weekend.
EDIT: What other roundish MWs are good for exposing tracks?


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Fantomu - Jun. 08, 2012

Hell would probably work better. It exposes even more of ED145's "wings" and is heavier than Flame.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - 50uNdW4v3 - Jun. 08, 2012

Neat! I should be able to try that out when I get back.

One other combo I'd like to mention is Burn Lacerta 135SD. It works particularly well as an "old" Stamina combo. Has a weird way of surviving hits, too (let's just say my brother launched it across a room, and it was spinning when it landed there).


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - th!nk - Jun. 08, 2012

That White Whale combo was really just made to look nice and fit the White Whale theme, haha, though it did work okay against a few competitive things at the time (back when the metagame was much more open). I do have a more updated version of it, though it isn't legal.

PS. If anyone is thinking of reporting/warning for the use of nicknames, the combination was a display combination I made using a Ketos Sticker I made where the whale was totally white, themed after a Mastodon song, based on the tale of Moby carp, in which the chorus mainly consists of the line "WHITE WHALE! HOLY GRAIL!", and of course the bey was also partially based on Moby carp. It was not any kind of competitive combination, just a name for a specifically coloured custom I made.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Fantomu - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:18 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: Neat! I should be able to try that out when I get back.

One other combo I'd like to mention is Burn Lacerta 135SD. It works particularly well as an "old" Stamina combo. Has a weird way of surviving hits, too (let's just say my brother launched it across a room, and it was spinning when it landed there).

A lot of Beyblades can do that, I think, aha. There was once I was battling Gravity Perseus D125RF (Mine) and my cousins Basalt _____ 130WD, I standed on a chair about 15-20ft away and launched it from there. It landed into the stadium and it surprisingly KO'd Basalt. Smile


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Ingulit - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:05 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: My next suggestion for a spin stealer tip would be CF. The ring should keep it upright even when its rpm is too slow to do so on any other tip, giving it a better shot at survival. Also, it's the heaviest tip in existance except perhaps GCF.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:17 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: DRACO- Hm, CF might be a decent thing to use in a spin steal combination...
I wonder how safe would it be, though. After all, its a flat tip, and a sudden aggressive movement (which is very much possible upon gaining enough RPM through spin stealing) might even lead to a loss...
Or, it can even be regarded as a successor of MLD CH120XF, which defeated opponents through Tornado Stalling.

My response would be exactly what Janstarblast said; MLD C120XF worked, and CF's overall stability and added weight might actually work. I don't have any Zero-G parts yet, so I don't know how CF performs in BB-10s. The added stability that I assume is there by the ring might help overcome how poorly balanced LDG is...

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:17 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: As for DS, that has been my favorite tip since I got into MFB. It actually stabilizes very well later on in the game and has helped me beat certain Stamina customs when used on a spin-steal combo, and vice versa.
Then again, what I faced can be regarded as outdated anyway...
Hence I cannot say, with true proof, that its a nice tip or not...

I actually like DS a lot too, and I've seen all your posts about liking it so much, haha! I keep trying it in combos, but thus far I'm coming up short... I really wish it was taller, that would make it much more obviously useful.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:25 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: EDIT: Ingulit: do you have a bunch of GB145s and a magnet?

lol, yeah, I've got two GB145s and some magnets, I'll go test them Grin

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:46 PM)Janstarblast Wrote: Ah, I'd once proposed a theory of having different groups of classification instead of the three we have at the moment(at the moment, we usually classify parts as Top Tier, Niche, and of course- Outclassed), which was appreciated by certain members, but wasn't adopted.

I actually would have liked classification of parts into these groups- Underused, Overused, Out of use, etc.
This is because, outclassed is a very bold term to use sometimes.

I actually completely agree to what th!nk said. Having a thread like that would be a great thing to have. It certainly would have its disadvantages, most of which would be extremely annoying for our Mods and Admins, so I don't see it coming soon.
But well, reviving the parts which were "killed" by the current top tiers is a good idea!

Still, considering that the current top tiers are WAY too strong, it might be difficult to use outdated parts for making counters to these. As th!nk already said, Metal Wheels do outrank one another. And considering that a Metal Wheel plays an important role in determining the uses and the strength of a combo, it might be worth considering that certain metal wheels are truly outclassed, and finding a use for them is difficult.
Even if it does get useful, it will only manage to get into the "Niche Use" category.

For instance, the person who started this whole discussion here(i.e. Ingulit) is trying his level best to find some use for Fusion. He did succeed, but he still knows that his combo will ALWAYS be dominated by the top tiers of the game(he said that Flash is a major problem for his combo).

Actually, I should not even be writing about this, as I never really understood as to what factor decides whether a good part is outclassed by another good part or not. But well, I am sure that I am not the only person to not know this.
The main thing is, only an Attack part can outclass another Attack part. A Defense part can NEVER "outclass" an Attack part, because this is not what the term "outclass" means.
At the most, a Defense part can only put an Attack part "out of use". Why?
Defense is meant to counter Attack. If the Defender does it successfully, it can very well put the Attacker out of use.

The most notable example for what I said above, is of course, Lightning L Drago, which was put out of use(though not entirely) after Basalt started dominating.

One of the things you said is a very valid point: metal wheels DO outclass one another, no doubt. The way I've been looking at metal wheels is that unless they're over 40 grams or can spin left, they're probably not worth looking into just because of the weight creep that is 4D/Zero-G. I mostly look for potential in tracks, tips, and clear wheels, since they can be used on the heavier (and actually relevant) wheels, though I do like trying to find potential in the heavier underused wheels like Fusion.

As an example of low-weight wheels just not being up to snuff, for awhile I was trying to come up with a combo utilizing Devine because it really overhangs the track, and as such I was hoping to make some sort of "any-height destabilizer" utilizing CH120 that would be able to destabilize low opponents on CH120 and even tall opponents on CH145. Unfortunately, Devine is just far too light (and its weight distribution is horrid), so it just didn't work at all. If I try to keep going after the idea of an "any-height destabilizer" it will have to use some kind of heavier wheel.

I love the idea of an OU, BL, NU tier system for parts, just like competitive Pokemon (the only example I can think of off the top of my head).

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:09 PM)Crab Commando Wrote: When I was messing around with random parts one day, (keep in mind that this was before I joined the WBO) I actually found a combo that worked fairly well in Hasbro stadiums, as well as some old combos. It was Flame Aquario ED145HF/S, which is very similar to th!nk's "White Whale" combo (which I was unaware of at the time). The point of the combo is to expose ED145 as much as possible, and since Flame tends to do that and HF/S is a fairly tall tip, it blocks hits fairly well. It also works decently in both tip modes.
However, as I mentioned before, I only recall using it against "old" combos. I'll try playing around with it more when I get back from vacation on the weekend.
EDIT: What other roundish MWs are good for exposing tracks?

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:11 PM)Fantomu Wrote: Hell would probably work better. It exposes even more of ED145's "wings" and is heavier than Flame.

What Fantomu said, Hell is a good choice specifically for its weight, though there might be something better/less recoil-y that I can't think of off the top of my head. That's an interesting idea, utillzing HF/S and a tall metal wheel to specifically allow for track contact. I wonder what other tracks would be good for this idea... My gut reaction would be R145 or H145, but HF/S can't handle the recoil. I remember a longgg time ago someone posted Hell Kerbecs H145R2F to do something similar to this. Maybe C145, if you're going for defensive tracks? I don't have HF/S, so I can't test with it Lips_sealed


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Fantomu - Jun. 08, 2012

Well, there are only about 3(?) MW's which expose the tracks more than normal ones. (Inferno, Hell and Flame). I think R145 would be best on it. Hm... Maybe CS would be tall enough?


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Raigeko13 - Jun. 08, 2012

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:40 PM)Kai-V Wrote: Personally, I doubt CF would beat EWD for spin-stealing ...
(Jun. 08, 2012  3:02 PM)th!nk Wrote: I'm mostly interested in two parts: Destabilisation, or whatever it was MF MLD CH120XF did, and Life After Death.
 
It really isn't possible unless we ever get a LAD part like it was on Wolborg 4. I'd LOVE to see what an EG with RF on it would be like, it would either be suicide, or amazingly fast, haha.
Surprisingly, CF and GCF both have the effect and can replace XF, if it's not available. Whether or not it does the job better, I can't answer.

(Jun. 08, 2012  3:11 PM)Fantomu Wrote: Hell would probably work better. It exposes even more of ED145's "wings" and is heavier than Flame.
I don't believe so, Hell has quite a bit more recoil, and less stamina as well (don't own one so I just go by what others say) so I don't think it would do better. I remember playing around with the same combo, and in an earlier time of the metagame it'd be considered a Destabilizer.




RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Fantomu - Jun. 08, 2012

Yeah, it has disadvantages. That being the main disadvantage.