(Jun. 25, 2011  12:36 PM)th!nk Wrote: Sup. Got something interesting for ya:

Hell Kerbecs BD145CS vs Hell Kerbecs BD145WD
Standard Conditions: BB10 Attack Stadium, WD launched first R1, alternate launches. Identical moldwise for hell and BD145, both are A1 (Wheel)/A4 (BD) and identical with holes/reinforcements, Kerbecs’s are identical, facebolts identical (down to the horuseus sticker and set). WD mint, CS plastic rounded, slightly aggressive (moves a little, not quickly). All combo’s launched as straight as possible.
Tips switched after 10 rounds, because I really want this to be accurate.
Beylauncher LR used (right spin). No grip as I launch steadier without one.

Obviously, both are in Boost Mode, and launched at 100%, dead straight.

Full Results (Click to View)

1. CS KO
2. CS KO
3. CS KO
4. WD KO
5. WD KO
6. CS KO
7. CSKO
8. WD KO
9. CS KO
10. CS KO
11. CS KO
12. CS OS
13. WD KO
14. WD OS
15. CS KO
16. CS KO
17. CS KO
18. WD KO
19. CS KO
20. WD KO

Win Rates
CS: 13/20 (12KO, 1OS) = 65%
WD: 7/20 (6KO, 1OS) = 35%

th!nks Notes (Click to View)

The longer the battle went on, the more likely CS was to KO
CS seemed to destabilise it’s WD counterpart, (on whichever bey it was on), so yeah, it can OS WD (though WD managed a narrow OS at R14).
CS is taller, and that seems advantageous here.
There were a lot of wall saves. I think the results are representative, though, to be honest.

What do I think this means? Well, given we already know Hell Kerbecs BD145CS beats other stamina combo’s by OS or KO, and does passably against attack, as a bonus: In my opinion, CS should be at least listed as an option for Hell Kerbecs on our top tier list.

Frankly, I think Hell BD145 should also be a defence option (or, give us a balance list, for (MF) Hell Kerbecs BD145CS, MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS and MF-H Basalt Bull/Kerbecs/Aquario 230CS). It does better than earth defensively, if I recall from the testing.

Further testing can be found around the forum, I’d suggest you look around, as I don't have time to baby anyone

(Jun. 25, 2011  12:55 PM)th!nk Wrote: By the way, just tried MF-H Basalt Aquario TH170CS vs MF-H Basalt Aquario 230CS. Basically, TH170 is usually a safe bet, but sometimes it gets caught under a wobbling 230, which risk OS (though CS normally stabilises you enough). 195 is hall enough to hit the opposing basalt wheel in the right spot to keep it off-balance, and can't get caught under a wobbling opponent. That's the best approximation I can give, I'd suggest using 195 against 220 would be the best option, though 170 may be safer due to the 1mil difference, I'd not risk it until it has properly been tested.

That said, if you're in a mirror match, you should both opt for 170, I think, for safety (on the off chance they choose 195, you should be safe, and 220 is only a minor risk).

Yeah, I'm using a similar combo right now and didn't exactly want to share this, so count yerselves lucky.

(Jun. 25, 2011  1:00 PM)® Wrote: IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.

(Jun. 25, 2011  1:00 PM)® Wrote: IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.

(Jun. 25, 2011  1:19 PM)th!nk Wrote: jan: 90 gets a solid winrate vs 100 IIRC, but yeah.

Honestly, I know it's 1mm difference, but in this case it's not the hugest thing ever,

[quote='®' pid='693437' dateline='1309003218']

(Jun. 25, 2011  1:19 PM)th!nk Wrote: Rusty True dat.
jan: 90 gets a solid winrate vs 100 IIRC, but yeah.

Honestly, I know it's 1mm difference, but in this case it's not the hugest thing ever, and that's the best I can do for you guys unless someone at my tourney has a TH170 (in which case I'll pressure them into testing once they're done beating me )

(Jun. 25, 2011  1:00 PM)® Wrote: IMO, 230 is VERY easy to beat. I dont find it as scary anymore. IMO BD145 and Gb145 are better than 230. 230 Weakness is a left spinning bey. Most likely, L drago, LLD, LDD, and Gravity Persues. 230=Ez Win.

Disagree. Have you played with MF-H Basalt Kerbecs/Aquario/Bull 230CS lately? It's still a tower of pain for most attackers, even at 145 and in left spin, it causes problems for many, for example, the old staple, MF LLD CH120RF doesn't do very well against it.
Also, you forgot meteo, it's actually more viable than a lot of wheels as the rubber lets it grip 230 properly to deliver hits. Pretty sure Pre-HWS is too light to take basalt, but I forget.

Also, TH170 is like the nightmare of 230 all over again, times three. It's got three incredibly useful heights. Honestly, it's AMAZING.

(Jun. 25, 2011  3:16 PM)th!nk Wrote: What do you mean, grip?
BTW, MF LLD CH145RF loses to it as I said.


By the way, guys. MF Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS is great and all, but seems to fail miserably against ol' MF MLD CH120XF. Not to say I won't still be using it hugely at my tourney, but yeah, that's a shame, as it seems to do far better against MF LLD BD145LRF than 230, but yeah, still failing against MF MLD CH120XF.

(Jun. 25, 2011  3:16 PM)th!nk Wrote: What do you mean, grip?
BTW, MF LLD CH145RF loses to it as I said.


By the way, guys. MF Basalt Kerbecs TH170CS is great and all, but seems to fail miserably against ol' MF MLD CH120XF. Not to say I won't still be using it hugely at my tourney, but yeah, that's a shame, as it seems to do far better against MF LLD BD145LRF than 230, but yeah, still failing against MF MLD CH120XF.

(Jun. 25, 2011  3:55 PM)th!nk Wrote: I don't use a grip at all, or at least, only when I feel it's giving me a better launch. normally it's just a LR launcher.

(Jun. 25, 2011  4:12 PM)th!nk Wrote: Well, don't buy the TT 3 segment grip, because hasbro launchers won't fit into them They seem specially designed to "just" not fit.

(Jun. 25, 2011  4:12 PM)th!nk Wrote: Well, don't buy the TT 3 segment grip, because hasbro launchers won't fit into them They seem specially designed to "just" not fit.

(Jun. 25, 2011  4:37 PM)th!nk Wrote: I guess that's something, and the RUL fits on the handle, but it's still stupid.