World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.
Beyblade Random Thoughts - Printable Version

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RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - loyd87 - Aug. 12, 2015

cool thx Zoroaste


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Aug. 13, 2015

Before I say anything else, I just want to be clear that if someone wants to stay away from Beyblade Burst right now due to technical issues, it's hard to hold it against them. I knew getting into this that it would be essentially an "alpha" product. The price of entry is worth it for me to come along for the ride and watch the game evolve, but that won't be the case for everyone.

However, I also feel confident that the majority of these issues will be handled pretty quickly. Takara-Tomy has always responded promptly to design issues, releasing new moulds just a month or two after initial release sometimes. My hope is that this tooth design will be altered, and the BeyLauncher and Light Launcher iterated to function more reliably. We'll see if I'm right.

(Aug. 12, 2015  8:35 PM)MissingNo. Wrote: The concept of Zero-G was weird, but overall really cool and original. The whole gimmick of the Burst serie is childish. It only shows us how short is the attentional capacity of kids these days.

The concept of Zero-G is awesome, so it's a shame it was tacked onto the end of MFB rather than being given the chance to shine as its own generation. Had Zero-G not been forced out as an attempt to revive the ailing Beyblade brand, it could've been something really cool. But I don't think it's well executed at all, and to me, it certainly feels worse executed than Beyblade Burst does.

I find it a bit weird to complain that Burst is childish. I'm going to resist any attempt to frame "childish" as a bad thing in the context of discussing a children's battling toy line — and especially when the initial plastic Beyblades are still so beloved despite their more toy-like nature compared to MFB and Zero-G.

And for sure, Burst is a return to those more toy-like roots. But it's also a return to its more game-like roots, focusing more on the interplay of gameplay elements rather than raw performance. I saw a video of Phantom Osiris spinning for like 9 minutes. Why is that a good thing? Beyblade is at its worst when its a drawn-out stamina-fest, two Beyblades tapping against eachother in the center of an arena until one finally stops spinning.

This is actually one of the huge gameplay improvements that's come to Burst that I'm not sure has been fully appreciated yet (although, I mean, it could be completely undone later in the line). Battles have been drastically shortened, and as a consequence, the part of the match that the player's actions most directly affect — the moments after launch — has been given much more importance.

Another factor in this is the fact that due to the awkward weight-balancing of these designs, they topple pretty quickly once they start to slow down. This was kind of worrying at first, but as my technique has improved I've come to really appreciate it. Again, it cuts down on the least-interesting part of gameplay by just ending the match once one of the Beyblades starts spinning really slowly.

Another big gameplay issue has also been rectified, which is the inability of Attack-types to bring valuable results if they miss the KO early in the match. Earlier, I was playing Spriggan Spread Accel Vs. Kerbeus Heavy Defense. I scored four really good consecutive hits with Spriggan SA before starting to circle Kerbeus HD. Without Burst, Spriggan would be doomed to lose this match, but a few hits late in the match were enough to trigger the burst and get Spriggan the win.

The hits I got early in the match were really good — the KO was only missed due to the RNG known as fate. :') So to see the results of my good launch and good attack pay off later in the match, even though the KO was missed early on, was gratifying. It still felt like an earned victory.

These moments where the Burst feels earned and justified as a gameplay mechanic happen more often than I would expect, actually, and I expect that to only improve over time as they tune the system. Sure, Double-Bursts are frustrating, and I get sick of reassembling the Beys sometimes, and the teeth are wearing down right now boy I sure hope they fix that, but when you score a few really good hits and you break through the opponent's Bey and all the pieces go flying out of the top of the stadium ...

It's worth it, man.



One final thing. Initial impressions made the game look very imbalanced in favour of Kerbeus and Spriggan basically, but we're at a point now where almost all of the initial part releases seem to be valuable in the early metagame. The only junk parts are Ragnaruk and Wing. Having such a competitive atmosphere so early on is pretty impressive.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Kei - Aug. 13, 2015

Really great post, Brad. Pretty much sums up many of the thoughts I've had about Beyblade Burst so far. I feel like this deserves to be posted somewhere where even more people who are debating whether or not to purchase Burst products will read it!


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Aug. 13, 2015

Oh man, there's another thing I meant to bring up, but didn't work it in.

I remember when Final Fantasy XII came out, there was a huge hubbub over its Gambit system, which essentially let you program your characters to automatically perform specific actions when specific conditions were met. e.g. when a character's HP drops below 25%, you can have them automatically use a healing spell.

A lot of people were upset about this because they felt it removed gameplay, but what it actually did was lay bare just how programmatic a lot of this gameplay is. Selecting "heal" from a menu when your HP drops below 25% is not meaningfully different from having it happen automatically. That barely constitutes gameplay. But people were still upset that it was taken away from them.

I feel the same way about Burst finish, in a lot of ways. I don't think Burst is a more luck-oriented game than any other Beyblade series, and the difference between a great launch and a poorly angled one versus Kerbeus HD/HS proves that. But it makes the game seem luckier, or more rather, the luck element of the game is more highly visible. How many MFB matches have you won in your life just because there was a stadium wall behind your Bey and not the opponent's? Gotta say, things like that don't happen super-often in Burst. There is certainly a luck element in triggering the Burst mechanism, but I'd say it's a type of luck that feels reasonably balanced.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - ZachBob - Aug. 13, 2015

Bey Brad is a Beyblade genius.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Aug. 13, 2015

I am just a gameplay details obsessive. That's one of the reasons I love Beyblade so much!


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - ZachBob - Aug. 13, 2015

(Aug. 13, 2015  3:17 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: I am just a gameplay details obsessive. That's one of the reasons I love Beyblade so much!

Same here! And because Science!


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Hato - Aug. 13, 2015

(Aug. 13, 2015  3:06 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: Oh man, there's another thing I meant to bring up, but didn't work it in.

I remember when Final Fantasy XII came out, there was a huge hubbub over its Gambit system..
Words

TL;DR

But seriously; it is very interesting how you mention luck. Was talking to a former Beyblading friend about it, and I feel like the Bursting does have more luck involved, but strength and layer design too (adding to skill).


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Aug. 13, 2015

I think later on in the line, we'll be able to ascertain just how big of a factor luck is. But I don't find it any bigger of a factor than it ever was.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Zoroaste - Aug. 13, 2015

(Aug. 13, 2015  2:52 AM)Bey Brad Wrote: Beyblade is at its worst when its a drawn-out stamina-fest, two Beyblades tapping against eachother in the center of an arena until one finally stops spinning.

Another big gameplay issue has also been rectified, which is the inability of Attack-types to bring valuable results if they miss the KO early in the match.
Amen. That's why I love burst so much. You never know what is going to happen, but there still is a alot of skill and strategy involved. I can't stand boring stamina battles. When i play with MFB and a fight turns into a stamina battle, more often than not, I just stop the fight and grab two different beys. This is just the first bit of what will probably be a giant toy line, and, while there are flaws, there is a lot of stuff done really well. The possibilities of this toy line are super exciting and I am really glad I got in on the ground floor to see it evolve.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Aug. 13, 2015

And the thing is, you would actually really know what is going to happen if you could somehow get the measurement data of how many teeth the Layer has unscrewed from while it was spinning, during the battle. Nobody would be surprised if they saw that their combination's Layer had only one click left to burst right before they indeed burst at the end of the match "out of nowhere".


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Kei - Aug. 13, 2015

Yeah, that's what I've been saying. If your Beyblade bursts right at the end of a battle, it has to be because you endured strong hits earlier in the battle. You managed to stay in the stadium, but in Burst that isn't the only thing that matters. It's not "random" or "out of nowhere".


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Zoroaste - Aug. 13, 2015

Yeah. The only real difference is that the luck of the game is at the absolute forefront. It is the games namesake and a complex mechanic where the differences in spin velocity and angle mean a lot, but are difficult to pin point and can seem more like luck than it really is.
But this can also be a very good thing. This is the type of thing that draws beginners and masters alike. Look at poker and games like that. Beginners see the luck factor at the forefront and see a way for themselves to stand toe to toe with the best. And the masters play to that misconception and master the probabilities of the game. The thing about luck is that, on average, everyone gets the same amount of luck in the long run and the better players are the ones who understand that and also understand that their skill and strategy will put them ahead in the long run


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Deathscyther04 - Aug. 13, 2015

Definitely gonna have to agree with the above comments, especially with how unpredictable a burst finish can be. Through my testing for tge first few days of having the new beys, there's definitely a need to closely spot bursting, especially double bursting. I love it, the whole idea of it is a great experience, even my friend, who only likes the original plastic gen, is willing to try it out ^^.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Jinbee - Aug. 13, 2015

(Aug. 13, 2015  4:16 AM)Deathscyther04 Wrote: Definitely gonna have to agree with the above comments, especially with how unpredictable a burst finish can be. Through my testing for tge first few days of having the new beys, there's definitely a need to closely spot bursting, especially double bursting. I love it, the whole idea of it is a great experience, even my friend, who only likes the original plastic gen, is willing to try it out ^^.

While I don't mind drawn out battles or whatnot, Burst introduced us to something more unpredictable which was what I loved so much about Beyblade, until I found Top Tier Combos. It makes winning especially bursting very satisfying.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Deathscyther04 - Aug. 13, 2015

I have to agree that it really does, hopefully the next few beyblades will help more with customizing, I'm gonna have to try some serious combo testing when I get Wyvern and Trident to see if there will be some good top-tier combos can be used from their parts.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Angry Face - Aug. 13, 2015

TIL Beyblade Burst is like gambling. Thanks, Zoroaste.

EDIT: Eee


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Zoroaste - Aug. 13, 2015

Haha. Just the allure could be the same is what I meant.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Deathscyther04 - Aug. 13, 2015

Heh, it actually is a bit like gambling, definitely enjoying it, albiet, trying to get more points can bruise your fingeres, it's already happened to me in a few days, haha.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Aug. 13, 2015

I find it weird that Zoroaste seems to agree with me but is talking about how Burst puts luck at the forefront of the game, which doesn't feel quite like what I said. I would say it just makes the existing luck elements somewhat more visible to the player.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - ZachBob - Aug. 13, 2015

I've noticed that with burst battles, with burst finishes at least, I don't feel as bummed when I lose, yet I still get the same sense of accomplishment when I win.
When I lose its like; oh well, so I burst, not much I cold do about it.
When I win, it's like; I didn't burst?! Whooooo! I'm awesome!

It doesn't really make any sense, that's just how I initially feel about it lol.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Dual - Aug. 13, 2015

When I lose by burst I cringe imagining the teeth wearing down, haha. Even if it's not that bad, it still bothers me.


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - ZachBob - Aug. 13, 2015

(Aug. 13, 2015  5:59 AM)Dual Wrote: When I lose by burst I cringe imagining the teeth wearing down, haha. Even if it's not that bad, it still bothers me.

Yeah, well that is a whole different story. I cringe from the moment I click one together...... poor valkyrie


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - Zoroaste - Aug. 13, 2015

I agreed with you somewhat, took my belief a bit further than yours and went to show how that it could actually be a good thing. While completely respecting what you said and not being condescending, I might add


RE: Beyblade Random Thoughts - infinitycross - Aug. 13, 2015

Id rather lose by bursting out because if I'm going to lose at least I'm losing with style