[Takara Tomy] 8’ with proof frame Testing

Takara Tomy 8’ with proof frame Testing - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: Takara Tomy 8’ with proof frame Testing (/Thread-Takara-Tomy-8%E2%80%99-with-proof-frame-Testing)

8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 02, 2018

I looked at 8’ a bit more carefully today and then stuck proof on it to look at it some more. It reminded me of Outer a bit. I decided it was interesting enough to do the following test.

I did my test of 8’ and proof with the following:

Layers: Sr (blue) Sr(red) to be used in opposite spin
Disk: 8’, Red Ω
Frame: proof on 8’
Driver: Br x 2 (gold and white)

Launch: all soft

Sr.8’P.Br vs. Sr.Ω.Br Opposite spin:
Sr.8’P.Br. 11 wins all OS (55%)
Sr.Ω.Br. 9 wins all OS (45%)
6 ties

Added test results when disk or frame was changed.

The way I like to test would be to allow one major variable. That way I am getting information about one part and not a combo of parts. So I will add the following quick results:

Variable: frame P vs C
Sr.8’P.Br(left) vs Sr.8’C.Br(right)
Sr.8’P.Br 10 win 10 OS (100%)
Sr.8’C.Br 0 wins (0%)

Variable: disk 8’ Vs 10
Sr.8’P.Br (left) vs Sr.10P.Br(right)
Sr.8’PBr 9 wins 9 OS (90%)
Sr.10P.Br 1 win 1 OS(10%)

Okay so I ran the Sr.8’P.Br vs Sr.10.Br again but this time switching parts like Kei correctly pointed out I should do. Here are the results after 20 rounds:

Sr.8’P.Br vs Sr.10P.Br (disk+frame was swapped 1/2 way)
Sr.8’P.Br 14 wins by OS (70%)
Sr.10P.Br. 6 wins by OS (30%)
Ties 10

Did some measuring of the 8’ vs 10 diameter

8’ Measured 43.83 mm
10 measured 43.80 mm

8’ Seems to have more weight at the outer perimeter

My heaviest 8’ that I used for this-20.8g
My 10 disk that I used-23.9g
Both proof frames are 2.9g

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - brandbrick - Oct. 02, 2018

oMg It beaT oUter!!

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - MonoDragon - Oct. 02, 2018

Question is, is that because of 8' or Proof?

Try a comparison with 8'Cross and 10Proof?

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 02, 2018

(Oct. 02, 2018 10:20 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Question is, is that because of 8' or Proof?

Try a comparison with 8'Cross and 10Proof?

I did try 8’ against Outer in same conditions and 8’ was losing. Didn’t do enough of that to record.

(Oct. 02, 2018 9:49 PM)brandbrick Wrote: oMg It beaT oUter!!

I would not really call 55% beats..... I only ran this 26 times.... I would only make the claim that they are close. It you take the standard deviation....just kidding.

Feel like I need to mention this here too. I am not giving competitive advice here. I am not saying Sr.Ω.Br is competitive. Actually, if it were, Japanese bladers would be playing that a lot. Nor am I saying Sr.8’P.Br is competitive. I am just looking at parts that interest me. Nothing more.

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - brandbrick - Oct. 02, 2018

(Oct. 02, 2018  10:36 PM)Shindog Wrote:
(Oct. 02, 2018  10:20 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Question is, is that because of 8' or Proof?

Try a comparison with 8'Cross and 10Proof?
I did try 8’ against Outer in same conditions and 8’ was losing. Didn’t do enough of that to record.

(Oct. 02, 2018  9:49 PM)brandbrick Wrote: oMg It beaT oUter!!

I would not really call 55% beats..... I only ran this 26 times.... I would only make the claims that they are close. It you take the standard deviation....just kidding.

Feel like I need to mention this here too. I am not giving competitive advice here. I am not saying Sr.Ω.Br is competitor. Actually, if it were, Japanese bladers would be playing that a lot. Nor am I saying Sr.8’P.Br is competitive. I am just looking at parts that interest me. Nothing more.

well, outer is banned, so maybe that’s why you don’t see it in tournaments

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - DaJetsnake - Oct. 02, 2018

(Oct. 02, 2018 11:15 PM)brandbrick Wrote: well, outer is banned, so maybe that’s why you don’t see it in tournaments

Not in Japan's store-hosted tournaments, or the wbba's tourneys

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - brandbrick - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 02, 2018 11:17 PM)DaJetsnake Wrote:
(Oct. 02, 2018 11:15 PM)brandbrick Wrote: well, outer is banned, so maybe that’s why you don’t see it in tournaments

Not in Japan's store-hosted tournaments, or the wbba's tourneys

I guess, but outer is also really rare so I doubt that it’s common to see it there either

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 02, 2018 10:20 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Question is, is that because of 8' or Proof?

Try a comparison with 8'Cross and 10Proof?

The way I like to test would be to allow one major variable. That way I am getting information about one part and not a combo of parts. So I will add the following quick results:

Variable: frame P vs C
Sr.8’P.Br(left) vs Sr.8’C.Br(right)
Sr.8’P.Br 10 win 10 OS (100%)
Sr.8’C.Br 0 wins (0%)

Variable: disk 8’ vs 10
Sr.8’P.Br (left) vs Sr.10P.Br(right)
Sr.8’PBr 9 wins 9 OS (90%)
Sr.10P.Br 1 win 1 OS(10%)

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Infinite.Zero - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 03, 2018 4:44 AM)Shindog Wrote:
(Oct. 02, 2018 10:20 PM)MonoDragon Wrote: Question is, is that because of 8' or Proof?

Try a comparison with 8'Cross and 10Proof?

The way I like to test would be to allow one major variable. That way I am getting information about one part and not a combo of parts. So I will add the following quick results:

Variable: frame P vs C
Sr.8’P.Br(left) vs Sr.8’C.Br(right)
Sr.8’P.Br 10 win 10 OS (100%)
Sr.8’C.Br 0 wins (0%)

Variable: disk 8’ vs 10
Sr.8’P.Br (left) vs Sr.10P.Br(right)
Sr.8’PBr 9 wins 9 OS (90%)
Sr.10P.Br 1 win 1 OS(10%)

Omg Omg...8' is the Meta

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Valkyriology - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 03, 2018 5:03 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote:
(Oct. 03, 2018 4:44 AM)Shindog Wrote: The way I like to test would be to allow one major variable. That way I am getting information about one part and not a combo of parts. So I will add the following quick results:

Variable: frame P vs C
Sr.8’P.Br(left) vs Sr.8’C.Br(right)
Sr.8’P.Br 10 win 10 OS (100%)
Sr.8’C.Br 0 wins (0%)

Variable: disk 8’ vs 10
Sr.8’P.Br (left) vs Sr.10P.Br(right)
Sr.8’PBr 9 wins 9 OS (90%)
Sr.10P.Br 1 win 1 OS(10%)
Omg Omg...8' is the Meta

*COUGH COUGH* proof *COUGH*

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - DaJetsnake - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 03, 2018 5:24 AM)Valkyriology Wrote:
(Oct. 03, 2018 5:03 AM)Infinite.Zero Wrote: Omg Omg...8' is the Meta

*COUGH COUGH* proof *COUGH*

They both have proof,
Also what about doing same spin tests with Sr Shindog?

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 03, 2018

(Oct. 03, 2018 10:06 PM)DaJetsnake Wrote:
(Oct. 03, 2018 5:24 AM)Valkyriology Wrote: *COUGH COUGH* proof *COUGH*

They both have proof,
Also what about doing same spin tests with Sr Shindog?

The reason why I haven’t posted any test result in same spin is because I don’t like the alt launch testing technique in same spin. I don’t really have another appropriate person to test with right now. I am trying to reduce variables as much as possible. And having varing launch strengh in same spin doesn’t make for good testing.

I am hoping that the Hasbro Burst rev up launchers are good (probably not...). If they are I would be more comfortable doing/posting same spin as I can rev up two launchers the same way and release both beys at the same time... I know I am just dreaming...

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - DaJetsnake - Oct. 03, 2018

Ah ok, cool

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - brandbrick - Oct. 04, 2018

I knew that outward weight distrubution would account to something!!

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Kei - Oct. 05, 2018

@[Shindog] for the 8’P vs 10 results, did you switch the parts half way through? Interesting that it was so one-sided.

(Oct. 03, 2018 12:56 AM)brandbrick Wrote:
(Oct. 02, 2018 11:17 PM)DaJetsnake Wrote: Not in Japan's store-hosted tournaments, or the wbba's tourneys

I guess, but outer is also really rare so I doubt that it’s common to see it there either

It’s common depending on where you play. Random kids don’t, but top players all have it.

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 05, 2018

(Oct. 05, 2018 5:47 AM)Kei Wrote: @[Shindog] for the 8’P vs 10 results, did you switch the parts half way through? Interesting that it was so one-sided.

(Oct. 03, 2018 12:56 AM)brandbrick Wrote: I guess, but outer is also really rare so I doubt that it’s common to see it there either

It’s common depending on where you play. Random kids don’t, but top players all have it.

Parts were not exchanged. I know what you mean by the results being surprising. When I just looked at the 8’ vs 10 I didn’t expect these results. I am using the heaviest 8’ I have but still with proof it is under 24g. Actually, in my hands 8P did better than 10P against 8’P. I will see if I can re-run the test and switch the parts.

Okay so I ran the Sr.8’P.Br vs Sr.10.Br but this time switching parts like Kei correctly pointed out I should do. Here are the results after 20 rounds:

Sr.8’P.Br vs Sr.10P.Br (disk+frame was swapped 1/2 way)
Sr.8’P.Br 14 wins by OS (70%)
Sr.10P.Br. 6 wins by OS (30%)
Ties 10

I also recorded the matches this time to allow slow motion playback. Previously I forgot to include the ties. I will edit this into original post.

Did some measuring of the 8’ vs 10 diameter
8’ Measured 43.83 mm
10 measured 43.80 mm

8’ Seems to have more weight at the outer perimeter
My heaviest 8’ that I used for this-20.8g
My 10 disk that I used-23.9g
Both proof frames are 2.9g

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Oct. 06, 2018

Added 1 video 10P vs 8’P

https://youtu.be/MqnBQGsJ-6A

Added video of 8’P vs Ω.
https://youtu.be/9ZvY3gMhM6E

To be complete added 10P vs Ω
https://youtu.be/YeRJLBG3FCc

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Wombat - Nov. 22, 2018

Didn't use 8', but I did some Proof tests today:

Hell Salamander 7Proof Atomic vs Archer Hercules 7Cross Atomic
hS.7P.At: 7 wins (all OS)
aH.7C.At: 3 wins (all OS)
Hell Salamander 7Cross Atomic vs Archer Hercules 7Proof Atomic
hS.7C.At: 3 wins (all OS)
aH.7P.At: 7 wins (all OS)

Proof Win rate: 70%

I swapped the Atomics every 5 rounds, but it looks like more often than not Proof beats Cross in opposite spin.

Drain Fafnir 7Proof Atomic vs. Drain Fafnir 7Glaive Atomic
dF.7P.At: 5 wins (all OS)
dF.7G.At: 5 wins (all OS)
Proof Win rate: 50%

It really seemed to come down to which combo was launched first, but it seems that Proof offers a LAD advantage on Atomic over Cross/Glaive without a significant loss in same spin perfomance like Polish used to.

EDIT: Here's a side by side comparison of Proof and Polish. Proof actually seems to hang slightly lower over the Driver, which is interesting
[Image: R1geXUL.jpg]

RE: 8’ with proof frame Testing - Shindog - Nov. 22, 2018

(Nov. 22, 2018 7:42 PM)Wombat Wrote: Didn't use 8', but I did some Proof tests today:

Hell Salamander 7Proof Atomic vs Archer Hercules 7Cross Atomic
hS.7P.At: 7 wins (all OS)
aH.7C.At: 3 wins (all OS)
Hell Salamander 7Cross Atomic vs Archer Hercules 7Proof Atomic
hS.7C.At: 3 wins (all OS)
aH.7P.At: 7 wins (all OS)

Proof Win rate: 70%

I swapped the Atomics every 5 rounds, but it looks like more often than not Proof beats Cross in opposite spin.

Drain Fafnir 7Proof Atomic vs. Drain Fafnir 7Glaive Atomic
dF.7P.At: 5 wins (all OS)
dF.7G.At: 5 wins (all OS)
Proof Win rate: 50%

It really seemed to come down to which combo was launched first, but it seems that Proof offers a LAD advantage on Atomic over Cross/Glaive without a significant loss in same spin perfomance like Polish used to.

EDIT: Here's a side by side comparison of Proof and Polish. Proof actually seems to hang slightly lower over the Driver, which is interesting

For me.
Et pairs Outer
Xt+ pairs cross/glaive. Cross seems better either spin slightly
At pairs proof.