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+--- Thread: Make your suggestions! (/Thread-Make-your-suggestions)
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
Why the hell should advanced members be the only people making these decisions? As has been said by Committee members, they are people that fit a particular mold, not necessarily those who know the most. Therefore, there are people better suited to making the decisions who are not able to.
I honestly see no reason intelligent but for whatever reason not-advanced members shouldn't be able to discuss important issues. It IS elitist and segregationist to have that kind of thing occurring.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Poseidon - Aug. 12, 2011
whilst i get what your saying anyone could post then and itll full of spam, which is why the mods paretially created it
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
Then those that are knowledgeable, not just those that are "model members" should be able to join the discussion, so the requirements must be lowered, as I said.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 3:22 PM)th!nk Wrote: As I've said, my main issue is that not enough actually gets done, when it should be, and easing the requirements or promoting more people would help that.
Then that's not just the advanced forum's fault, or the amount of members, that's also your impatience.
Lord wolfblade, ultrablader's need some shifting around(not that I'm against ultrablader or anything). I might post in it today, but as an example of how it is like the top tier list is earth mold 2 is tier 1 for defense, which is where basalt is.
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Th!nk, you keep treating it like anyone outside has no say, when that's not the case.
As an example here, just because people can't post about the banning of basalt doesn't mean they have no say. What says they can't do tests to show that other wheels would or would not change things in defense? You did all that libra unbanning stuff, what's different?
I know you are mainly talking about the top tier list, so what says that those members who want to have a say can't do a bunch of tests to show what combos should be worth it.
And, more influence goes into the top tier lost from the customization forum than from the advanced forum, because the list is based on tests, and tests come from the customization forum.
RE: Make your suggestions! - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 5:10 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: As an example here, just because people can't post about the banning of basalt doesn't mean they have no say.
when people where posting about the banning basalt thread in the random thoughts thread, kai-V said this
(Aug. 11, 2011 12:30 AM)Kai-V Wrote: What I meant is that it was posted in the Advanced Forum because we wanted the opinions of the Advanced Members. Not to offend anyone, but if we had wanted any member to reply to it like some of you just did, then we would have made the topic in a section which was not limited to only a few users.
in a way she said: stop posting about it, we don't want your say
really, if we can't post about it anywhere then our say isn't heard, so we have no say
RE: Make your suggestions! - Serotonin - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 5:05 PM)th!nk Wrote: Then those that are knowledgeable, not just those that are "model members" should be able to join the discussion, so the requirements must be lowered, as I said.
I don't agree with this at all; the criteria, however vague, isn't about "model members", but about knowledge. It just so happens that in order to prove your knowledge, being a positive influence will help.
Look, when we agreed to post a thread up in Advanced we always had the intention of discussing this on a wider level at some point to pick up any further opinions before any changes were to take place. If however, you feel sufficiently passionate about this at this present moment, you are welcome to present your findings, thoughts or results in a similar fashion to your Libra testing thread, as SSJFisherman already pointed out. At this present moment in time, although it's not a complete solution, I'd like to add that the poll in Advanced is available for everyone to vote in, as well.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 12, 2011
Tests are a say.
(this was to lord wolfblade)
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
While people in the advanced forum need only post their thoughts to have a say. Great.
It's not only on the basalt issue.
<3, that criteria is what I've been told by other committee members.
To be honest, I think I've made my point here, it has gotten to the point where I'm repeating myself and trying to get back to what I actually said originally :\
RE: Make your suggestions! - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 12, 2011
Shabalabadoo true, true
Quote:can there just be a compromise that will keep both the normal members and the mods happy? IMO this is really getting offtopic and out of control. so just make a compromise or something to keep us all happy
i just want to bring this back up
in short, all th!nk wants is more advance members, because he thinks we need more (am i correct?). so do we really need to make this big fight over that?
@th!nk personally i think you could of gone about this differently to not cause a argument and maybe get your suggestion noted in a better way...
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
I tried to. It would have been easier were I already an advanced member, because then people couldn't accuse me of jealousy/selfish motivations.
I never wanted to cause a big fight, I just want something to be done about the state of the advanced forum, because it's ridiculous.
And, obviously, failing that, more recognition for people who actually know what they're talking about and help out around here, but for whatever reason aren't "advanced" members. Sure, we have a tiny little face newbies never notice, but yeah, somewhere where said people could actually discuss important stuff would be nice too.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 12, 2011
I give up. You seem to ignore the point that non-advanced members get just as much of a say as advanced members.
So it's pointless for me to continue, I'm repeating myself too.
RE: Make your suggestions! - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 5:29 PM)th!nk Wrote: I tried to. It would have been easier were I already an advanced member, because then people couldn't accuse me of jealousy/selfish motivations.
I never wanted to cause a big fight, I just want something to be done about the state of the advanced forum, because it's ridiculous.
yes, but the way that you did it was not the way
though to you it might be a good way, i think this would be better
(Aug. 12, 2011 5:11 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Why couldn't you just post something like, "I think these members should be Advanced Bladers. The topics in that forum are kind of stale and I think they'd have a lot to contribute."
though you had more to say then just that, IMO that would of worked better. really you could just add what your reasons are in a less... argumentative way
what you have done most likely just made it worse for yourself
i really think this discussion should be stopped now
i am sorry th!nk, i respect you and consider you a friend and mentor, but you need to let it rest
RE: Make your suggestions! - Kai-V - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 3:22 PM)th!nk Wrote: Kai-V: So, because of idiots like that, the rest of us don't get a say on important issues, like banning one of the most useful and important parts of a metagame, or what is/isn't top-tier?
You write "the rest of us" as if he is the only one who would make a bad post in a public topic. Unfortunately for you, "the rest of us" probably would not even represent one fifth of the response we would be getting in such a thread.
Also, I wanted to come back on something that Deikailo posted last night : th!nk's tournament is certainly not "over two months overdue", it only happened slightly over a month ago. It is right next on our list because finally some even older tournaments got processed.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
Shabalabadoo: my point is that they don't. We've all discussed how out of date the tier list is, and we've done testing, and NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
lord Wolfblade: Honestly I have very little to lose. Maybe it would have been a better way to post it, but that wasn't my point, my point was that the requirements should be lowered, not that certain people should be allowed in.
Kai-V: Okay, then, those of use who make intelligent posts but for whatever reason aren't worthy of veteran status cannot discuss issues because we allow idiots to sign up for the sake of the WBO. Same difference. Either you lower the requirements, make some kind of intermediary forum or even thread, or miss out on valuable opinions and actual progress.
RE: Make your suggestions! - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 5:36 PM)th!nk Wrote: lord Wolfblade: my point was that the requirements should be lowered, not that certain people should be allowed in.
well then you should of just said that instead of making a argument. things would of been allot easier
please, just give this a rest, it has gone on for to long. just walk away man
though i do agree with you in some ways, the argument should stop now
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
If you look back, that is exactly what I posted. Then people didn't get my point so I had to be blunt about it.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Raigeko13 - Aug. 12, 2011
I personally for one don't think they need to lower their standards. Their standards are just fine.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Temporal - Aug. 12, 2011
Maybe, but we need some sort of way where the better members can post THEIR thoughts on a certain subject, and not just test. And do it in a way where we can feel that it's being seen and taken into consideration. That seems to be the issue again. Because it doesn't seem like we're being listened to, and some of the worse members force our posts upwards, it seems like nobody sees our input. And it seems like we're being separated from the major discussions. Maybe we do come up with something or add a view that someone doesn't think of. It might not happen, but it's still better than nothing, right?
RE: Make your suggestions! - Raigeko13 - Aug. 12, 2011
A place where better members can post their thoughts?
No.
Look at the commotion this has caused, an intermediate discussion would only cause even MORE seperation between members. You would think, "Yes that's a great idea!" but in fact, separation is the worst. Take for example segregation. That's how I kind of describe this situation.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Temporal - Aug. 12, 2011
Hence the "Maybe". It's more of a Band-Aid solution, thus it's not really a good idea, but something really needs to be done. I simply said we needed a way, not a whole new sub-forum.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Raigeko13 - Aug. 12, 2011
I say we just drop the subject and say that this suggestion wasn't good enough. I'm sick and tired of seeing every hateful response, it only worries me more about this fight.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Temporal - Aug. 12, 2011
I bring back up my first point. Nobody's really communicating, it seems like a bunch of people trying to get a point across without listening to other points. Not saying that's what happened. That's what it LOOKS like, though. But yeah, it's about time we dropped this.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Sparta - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:23 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: I say we just drop the subject and say that this suggestion wasn't good enough. I'm sick and tired of seeing every hateful response, it only worries me more about this fight.
Isn't this what I said 4 hours ago?
New topic:
I suggest that the WBO has a stage just below A.M., say...I don't know, but something that says you go on and post a lot. OR better yet, we have ranking systems! Like, newest members will have a small subtitle that says: rookie blader. Then, when you get better you become a "Moderate blader". And so on.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Poseidon - Aug. 12, 2011
that cause alot of resent look at where we are with the advanced more "ranking itll be a riotuless its a face 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 good posts maybe to get faces but that sounds fairly bad aswell
RE: Make your suggestions! - Serotonin - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 8:07 PM)Sparta Wrote:(Aug. 12, 2011 6:23 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: I say we just drop the subject and say that this suggestion wasn't good enough. I'm sick and tired of seeing every hateful response, it only worries me more about this fight.
Isn't this what I said 4 hours ago?
New topic:
I suggest that the WBO has a stage just below A.M., say...I don't know, but something that says you go on and post a lot. OR better yet, we have ranking systems! Like, newest members will have a small subtitle that says: rookie blader. Then, when you get better you become a "Moderate blader". And so on.
When we first discussed the idea of Advanced/Veteran Status, we actually wanted General and Customisations to be a place for anyone to stake a claim to post. Beyblade is actually one of few hobbies where it's quite clear from your posts what sort of understanding you have of the game. As a result, I don't think it's necessary to have a "ranking" system as such.
I have a bit more time to address some more general points now from my own point of view, and although I'm not going to say I speak for all of Committee, I'm confident they'll agree with me to some extent.
Advanced Forum is slow.
This has been brought up a few times here and in the past. I don't think it moves slowly at all. Yes, posts are sporadic, but discussion takes place. I don't think this is about activity either; a lot of Advanced Members are actually very active, but there's nothing particularly pressing to discuss. Most of us post prominently in Customisations, where most of tiering actually gets decided. I see no reason for Advanced to move that quickly anyway.
Criteria for Advanced is too vague.
I don't agree. Generally, people who are knowledgeable will know that their contributions are valued and respected; in turn, they will get noticed. This isn't something where you fulfil certain stone-set achievements on the forums, and you'll get access to Advanced, because let's face it, that will honestly never work. The sad reality is that not much in the world is concrete like that, and while this isn't an off-handed way of saying "Deal with it!", I am saying that it's just something you have to persevere with, and you'll eventually earn you reward. I realise that this is in serious danger of glorifying the Advanced Forum, and that's not my intention at all - which brings me to my next point.
Advanced Forum is the only place where opinions are heard.
This is untrue. As I mentioned before, we always had the intention of opening up discussion to everyone else at some point. That's not to say we are blocking any discussion at the moment. The BD145 ban discussion thread was locked because it did not present good arguments at all, and when people started to discuss this in Random Thoughts, we stopped it because we did not want such a mishmash of opinions in quite a fast-paced and generally disordered thread. Everyone's concerns about this has made us realise that we certainly made a bad call with that, but that's not to say we can work to a good solution for everyone - we will accelerate the creation of a thread for the discussion for a Basalt ban right now.
I appreciate that the discussion about Basalt and the Advanced Forum isn't the sole reason for a lot of grief on this thread, but I think it's a good issue to start with and to put to bed. We're all really happy to hear what other issues you might like to bring up, since this is an appropriate thread to raise it, so if you have anything else, please post. Otherwise, it would be much appreciated if we stopped with inflammatory remarks, mudslinging, and misguided peacemaking.
