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+--- Thread: Make your suggestions! (/Thread-Make-your-suggestions)
RE: Make your suggestions! - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:06 AM)th!nk Wrote: That is the problem, you don't really get any say. I've explained that already, so I'd really appreciate if you could just look through the discussion and find that
That is somewhat what I mean, but not really so vague/open. I've listed people who I think should be "advanced", and as I said, an intermediate tier would be nice.
The way I see it, the difference between the advanced forum and the rest of the WBO, is that the advanced forum is a place where there's no stupid comments, interruptions, spam, having to answer questions, etc. Other than, IMO It is the same thing as the rest, just more ... Filtered. Yes there's things non veterans don't get a say about, but the amount of things that happen outside the advanced forum that are significant, is a bigger number than what happens in the advanced forum. And they're just as important.
You've said what you've wanted to say in the past, why the notion that anyone outside has no say?
RE: Make your suggestions! - Kai-V - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:14 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: th!nk and Rusty. They said they feel like they don't have a say.
Well, if we had not already made that topic in the Advanced Forum and that they had actually come up with this intelligent, specifically similar discussion themselves before, that would have been fine, but now, after we have purposely made the thread in the Advanced Forum, I do not know.
Deikailo Wrote:Your skill as a blader varies minimally from format to format. In PND! and HND!, the top four winners (with the exception of Crimson Unhappy) are all high ranking bladers with MFB as well. In those two events, Daegor and To still did horribly, as usual, meaning we're all skilled as bladers, not in formats.
I completely agree. Yes, competitive parts might be more difficult to get since they are absolutely out of order, but there are similar rules to make everything fair, so I think all those formats should be processed together.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
I took the closing of the Competitive MFB Combo's in the non-advanced forum as a precedent indicating we weren't meant to discuss it. I do generally post these things in various places, but they are rarely acknowledged. I would feel presumptuous making a thread about it in the normal forums.
Things should be happening in the advanced forum, though, is honestly my main point.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Cye Kinomiya - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:15 AM)Deikailo Wrote:I'd rather say this isn't true than to accept that I'm no longer good at beyblade!(Aug. 12, 2011 6:09 AM)Kai-V Wrote:Your skill as a blader varies minimally from format to format. In PND! and HND!, the top four winners (with the exception of Crimson(Aug. 12, 2011 6:06 AM)RustyXD Wrote: I have my own question , why are we not able to host plastic/HMS tournaments this is the world beyblade organization no? I mean , it would be nice that you could choose a certain format , since that would encourage me to host more tourneys , maybe twice a month having a plastic and MFB tourney. I no that plastics/HMS are not being produced anymore , but there are heaps of people who love plastics/HMS and a tourney would be nice , but maybe limit the amount of plastic/HMS tournaments to once every 2 months or something because most kids only have MFB , and I can imagine plastic tourneys getting out of control.
Hm, you are able ? And personally, there should be nothing stopping us from just processing them in the same Beypoint System, but other Committee Members disagree for some reason.) are all high ranking bladers with MFB as well. In those two events, Daegor and To still did horribly, as usual, meaning we're all skilled as bladers, not in formats.
EDIT: I guess I should let you guys know that this was intended to be humorous.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Deikailo - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:19 AM)Kai-V Wrote:Although they are harder to get, I have absolutely no problem importing them for users and reselling them here to get that off the ground.Deikailo Wrote:Your skill as a blader varies minimally from format to format. In PND! and HND!, the top four winners (with the exception of Crimson Unhappy) are all high ranking bladers with MFB as well. In those two events, Daegor and To still did horribly, as usual, meaning we're all skilled as bladers, not in formats.
I completely agree. Yes, competitive parts might be more difficult to get since they are absolutely out of order, but there are similar rules to make everything fair, so I think all those formats should be processed together.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:19 AM)th!nk Wrote: I took the Competitive MFB Combo's in the non-advanced forum as a precedent indicating we weren't meant to discuss it. I do generally post these things, but they are rarely acknowledged, is all.actually I believe it was put in there because of the ridiculous amount of spam.
Quote:Things should be happening in the advanced forum, though, is honestly my main point.Yeah, the thing is, slow but proper progress is better than too much wrong things being said (which is what i believe would happen if people weren't 100% capable) just to get things done faster.
Well, In my opinion at least.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
I know that was the reason, but it still sets a precedent.
I agree to a point. There is a difference between slow progress and no progress. That is my issue. The issue with the top tiers list, for example, is that if it was updated quickly and with somewhat lower testing requirements, it would still be more accurate than it is the way it is currently done. Sure, things may slip through, but TBH they do the way we currently do it (Ray, for example), and frankly, having one or two combo's that might not deserve tobe top tier slip in is better than a whole tier list that is out of date.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Cye Kinomiya - Aug. 12, 2011
In any other game a tier list is often created a while after the fact anyway.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
Then we should remove it from the introductory PM, as it is not of the stated use.
Why can't we be better?
RE: Make your suggestions! - Hero - Aug. 12, 2011
I'm back for this one post. I hope my opinion still counts. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong as I am behind on everything. Because I have not frickin' idea what's up anymore. Haha. ;D
Congrats Shabalabadoo and Uwik on advanced members. You guys deserved it. Although, before I left I recall Shabalabadoo being really inactive. I guess he got off his hiatus. Although, I feel that several other members deserved the title "advanced member" too. I asked the committee about it and they gave me answers that satisfied those inquires. Here I am though posting after I announced my hiatus to find those same members not italicized yet. What?
I feel that the selection process is entirely up to the committee. Yes, their opinion is important but 'normal' members recognize a good member when they see one. Hmm, if there was a more public way to voice their opinions. Perhaps if the committee would like to elaborate on the selection process or perhaps have a place where we can place recommendations. Let's say ... when a member receives enough legitimate recommendations the committee would give it a screening.
The veteran/advanced member process is very, very messy. We have so many proper members who should be there but just aren't. I know it's very hard for the committee to evaluate each member and that you have lives of your own but seriously; it's clearly evident who deserves it. You guys know who they are.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Temporal - Aug. 12, 2011
I'll have to be totally neutral here.
Spoiler (Click to View)
RE: Make your suggestions! - Kei - Aug. 12, 2011
Regarding the "Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos" thread: you're misunderstanding it's purpose, th!nk. As Shabalabadoo pointed out by posting my quotes from the Beyblade Random Thoughts thread: that thread is not about providing all of the answers. It in meaningless to "tell" someone something completely and directly. How will they learn anything? It is a starting point, and as long as there is discussion elsewhere (like, say in the thread itself like there has been recently), then I think everything is OK. I do concede that it has not been updated quickly enough … but as you can see, I and others are trying to rectify that right now. There are a number of changes that just need to be edited in right now actually, now that no one has objected to them.
th!nk Wrote:And anyway, aren't you guys the people who are SUPPOSED to be doing this?!? THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE AN ITALICISED NAME.
Advanced Members are not obligated to contribute anything. In creating the Advanced Forum, we never saw giving the status of "Advanced Member" to someone as a 'privilege' that carries certain 'duties'; it is merely a distinction designed to help newer Bladers verify who they can generally trust in relation to community issues, and more importantly, issues related to the game of Beyblade itself. This does not mean that other people cannot be trusted though, of course.
The Advanced Forum is simply a venue for intelligent, thoughtful discussion of advanced Beyblade concepts by highly skilled Bladers who have proved–whether recently or in the past (some even on different forums)–that they are the "leaders", so to speak, of the game. They are people who have set a good example for younger Bladers to follow in nearly all aspects of their interaction with the community, and they all have a deep knowledge of the game of Beyblade. That's why they have an italicized name, and I find it insulting and incredibly egotistical that you've gone as far as to insult the entirety of the Advanced Member/Veterans group and what they have all individually done for the game and for the community, by insinuating in a later post that "there are less deserving people who are advanced members" than yourself.
(Aug. 12, 2011 6:15 AM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: The way I see it, the difference between the advanced forum and the rest of the WBO, is that the advanced forum is a place where there's no stupid comments, interruptions, spam, having to answer questions, etc. Other than, IMO It is the same thing as the rest, just more ... Filtered. Yes there's things non veterans don't get a say about, but the amount of things that happen outside the advanced forum that are significant, is a bigger number than what happens in the advanced forum. And they're just as important.
QFT. Everything that is discussed in the Advanced Forum is a result of what happens within the community (at tournaments and on the forums), so in that sense, everyone does 'contribute' and 'have a say'. In addition to this, I shall leave this quote here:
(Nov. 26, 2010 4:21 AM)Kei Wrote:(Nov. 26, 2010 3:23 AM)Commie Wrote: This new forum sounds like an elitist idea. But whatever.
This is not what we want to convey with the addition of the Advanced Forum. Just as much as the forum is an outlet for the more experienced members to discuss advanced concepts in Beyblade without the added noise of certain members who do not have that experience or knowledge, it is also meant to be another resource for those very members who are new to the game or do not have a high level of knowledge to learn and grow themselves. And then one day perhaps they would be able to join the Veterans group. We are always open to adding new members who have demonstrated they have the type of knowledge we are looking for.
We have 20,000+ members now, and with this immense growth, it has also become more difficult to find great, productive, and informative posts. In doing this, hopefully finding such posts will be a little bit easier. That being said, do not mistake all of this as us trying to segregate the community, that isn't our intention.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Temporal - Aug. 12, 2011
It seems like this is a huge misunderstanding. I think that Th!nk is trying to say that some of the members in the regular forums can discuss Beyblade just as well as everyone else. Kai-V's acknowledged it, you've mentioned it a few times, so why is this conversation still on? The point is, whether it was intended that way or not, it's kinda doing just that: segregating the community. I've been a supporter of the Advanced system for ages, especially with the type of discussion had there (The Italian Metagame, Bearings, and even haggling on what parts make the cut on the top-tier list.) but the point is, a lot of members aren't seeing results. Not a blast in any way, but when an important thread becomes a joke as Th!nk mentioned? Not good. The diversity you've got on the advance forum is amazing, McFrown playing the devil's advocate, Yamislayer and Galaxy pointing out the Italian perspective, but really, some of us really feel left out, which is against the idea of "community" in the first place. Just elaborating on what I think was said. If I'm wrong, by all means say so.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 7:52 AM)Kei Wrote: Regarding the "Competitive Metal Fight Beyblade Combos" thread: you're misunderstanding it's purpose, th!nk. As Shabalabadoo pointed out by posting my quotes from the Beyblade Random Thoughts thread: that thread is not about providing all of the answers. It in meaningless to "tell" someone something completely and directly. How will they learn anything? It is a starting point, and as long as there is discussion elsewhere (like, say in the thread itself like there has been recently), then I think everything is OK. I do concede that it has not been updated quickly enough … but as you can see, I and others are trying to rectify that right now. There are a number of changes that just need to be edited in right now actually, now that no one has objected to them.
I'm sorry, but it is presented in that fashion. Either way, it is still hilariously dated. Frankly, we should have something that "just tells them", sure they mightn't learn, but then most of them won't bother to anyway, so why not give them the answers?
Quote:th!nk Wrote:And anyway, aren't you guys the people who are SUPPOSED to be doing this?!? THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE AN ITALICISED NAME.
Advanced Members are not obligated to contribute anything. In creating the Advanced Forum, we never saw giving the status of "Advanced Member" to someone as a 'privilege' that carries certain 'duties'; it is merely a distinction designed to help newer Bladers verify who they can generally trust in relation to community issues, and more importantly, issues related to the game of Beyblade itself. This does not mean that other people cannot be trusted though, of course.
The Advanced Forum is simply a venue for intelligent, thoughtful discussion of advanced Beyblade concepts by highly skilled Bladers who have proved–whether recently or in the past (some even on different forums)–that they are the "leaders", so to speak, of the game. They are people who have set a good example for younger Bladers to follow in nearly all aspects of their interaction with the community, and they all have a deep knowledge of the game of Beyblade.
Then why is it that the important decisions, such as the tier list, are discussed there, and they are the only people asked whether or not a part deserves to be top tier? They have the second-final say on everything, and I'd consider that something of a duty.
Quote:That's why they have an italicized name, and I find it insulting and incredibly egotistical that you've gone as far as to insult the entirety of the Advanced Member/Veterans group and what they have all individually done for the game and for the community, by insinuating in a later post that "there are less deserving people who are advanced members" than yourself.
Maybe it is egotistical, but it is my honest opinion. Pardon me for speaking it :\
Maybe they deserved it more than me when they were made advanced members, but not all of them do now, in my opinion.
The rest I've already answered.
Frankly, I did not wish to make this about me, that was not the point of my original post. Despite my best efforts, it has been taken as such. Point is, the criteria are too harsh. If it's a "worth listening to" forum, then everyone I suggested for that should be there too.
Temporal has summed it up excellently.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Janstarblast - Aug. 12, 2011
Well, I kinda agree with th!nk and Temporal. I think such things are similar to autocracy, instead of a democracy.
I am really not all that experienced that I raise a point against the Advanced Forum, I simply don't have the right to do so. Just that I would suggest-
Let the Advanced Forum take a certain decision, let it come down into Beyblade General/Customizations. Let people decide on it, and then pass the rule. One may simply keep a public poll out there so that it becomes easier to take a decision. The latest topic in the Forum regarding the ban of Basalt is atrocious!
I really want that to be discussed publicly as it was before.Well, I was just reading an article on the Indian Democracy as its our Independence Day on Monday. So what I suggested completely relates to the Indian form of Govt. Civics has devoured me!
<RE: Make your suggestions! - Cye Kinomiya - Aug. 12, 2011
What's atrocious about that discussion?
RE: Make your suggestions! - Janstarblast - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 10:50 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: What's atrocious about that discussion?
Well, considering that now there are many counters to most of its combos, I think its horrible to ban it now. Or, at least it should be discussed publicly, as there are many people who would want a say on it. Its just like Libra. Libra was banned, but then it returned as many counters were found, Basalt's release is also a BIG reason for it getting back into the game. So now, I think Basalt shouldn't be banned as it has its counters... Yes, if the bearing core tip turns out to be good, only then should it be banned.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Kai-V - Aug. 12, 2011
Kai-V Wrote:Plus, I believe that if Advanced Members are not able to imagine all the possible point of views of the community and come up with a common solution, then we have a problem.
I do not think we are egoists, so through our discussion, we should be able to take/imagine all possible point of views and see what the best solution would be for the metagame.
All this 'segregation' and 'elitist' talk slightly bothers me, because I do not see any Advanced Member act any different than other users, so it seems like the latter are getting this false impression. Is it just because there are topics you cannot post in ? There are indeed matters that should be kept away from the sort of post the majority does. For instance, that guy made a topic about banning BD145 last night : he is a bad member, his input is something I would barely consider.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Sparta - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 3:13 PM)Kai-V Wrote:Kai-V Wrote:Plus, I believe that if Advanced Members are not able to imagine all the possible point of views of the community and come up with a common solution, then we have a problem.
I do not think we are egoists, so through our discussion, we should be able to take/imagine all possible point of views and see what the best solution would be for the metagame.
All this 'segregation' and 'elitist' talk slightly bothers me, because I do not see any Advanced Member act any different than other users, so it seems like the latter are getting this false impression. Is it just because there are topics you cannot post in ? There are indeed matters that should be kept away from the sort of post the majority does. For instance, that guy made a topic about banning BD145 last night : he is a bad member, his input is something I would barely consider.
That's true. For example take the American Government (Just hear me out). Although there are many decisions made by the voters of America, there are also a lot of decisions made by Congress and Mr. Prez himself. Therefore, it's only right that advanced members, moderators, and committee members have rights to make some choices within that group.
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
And yeah, don't governments get so much done hey? This isn't the place for my political views though.
As I've said, my main issue is that not enough actually gets done, when it should be, and easing the requirements or promoting more people would help that.
And, Sparta, everyone deserves a say in all of the things I've seen in the advanced forum. It affects them, they deserve a say. They do not choose who is/isn't advanced either, so it is not what you've described at all.
Kai-V: So, because of idiots like that, the rest of us don't get a say on important issues, like banning one of the most useful and important parts of a metagame, or what is/isn't top-tier?
RE: Make your suggestions! - Sparta - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 3:22 PM)th!nk Wrote: And, Sparta, everyone deserves a say in all of the things I've seen in the advanced forum. It affects them, they deserve a say. They do not choose who is/isn't advanced either, so it is not what you've described at all.
Obamacare affected us a lot, but we didn't have much say. There are some things in the world that are beyond your control, whether it be by other people or by nature. Either way you just voice your opinion and know that there isn't anything you can do. Wanting to be in control of everything is called power, and it's something that's not always evenly shared. Instead of trying to fight it, you just bite your tongue and work with what you've got. Mountain climbers don't try to move the mountains, instead they climb them and work with it.
Meh, my $0.02
RE: Make your suggestions! - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 12, 2011
ok...
i do think their should be some more advance members, and with the discussion on basalt, the more input the better right? IMO with a important thing like that you should have more people to discuss it
on the tier list, a starting point starts with something that has been outclassed for more then half a year? really?
at least say this is just a starting point, or use ultrabladers guide instead, as a starting point i think it is better
now:
can there just be a compromise that will keep both the normal members and the mods happy? IMO this is really getting offtopic and out of control. so just make a compromise or something to keep us all happy
edit: and can we stop with the political points? last i checked, politics are against the rules
RE: Make your suggestions! - th!nk - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 4:47 PM)Sparta Wrote:(Aug. 12, 2011 3:22 PM)th!nk Wrote: And, Sparta, everyone deserves a say in all of the things I've seen in the advanced forum. It affects them, they deserve a say. They do not choose who is/isn't advanced either, so it is not what you've described at all.
Obamacare affected us a lot, but we didn't have much say. There are some things in the world that are beyond your control, whether it be by other people or by nature. Either way you just voice your opinion and know that there isn't anything you can do. Wanting to be in control of everything is called power, and it's something that's not always evenly shared. Instead of trying to fight it, you just bite your tongue and work with what you've got. Mountain climbers don't try to move the mountains, instead they climb them and work with it.
Meh, my $0.02
This is not relevant to the forum at all, I've worked quite well with what I have, and I'm trying to use that to climb said mountain right now :\
People elected Obama. We didn't elect the advanced members or the committee. I'd rather not argue a political point, though, as I can see you're very passionate about that, and, as I've said, it is entirely irrelevant.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Sparta - Aug. 12, 2011
(Aug. 12, 2011 4:51 PM)th!nk Wrote:Sorry, I was just trying to make a point. My suggestion is to just let the A.M's decide some of the major things. At least, that was somewhat what I was trying to say.(Aug. 12, 2011 4:47 PM)Sparta Wrote:(Aug. 12, 2011 3:22 PM)th!nk Wrote: And, Sparta, everyone deserves a say in all of the things I've seen in the advanced forum. It affects them, they deserve a say. They do not choose who is/isn't advanced either, so it is not what you've described at all.
Obamacare affected us a lot, but we didn't have much say. There are some things in the world that are beyond your control, whether it be by other people or by nature. Either way you just voice your opinion and know that there isn't anything you can do. Wanting to be in control of everything is called power, and it's something that's not always evenly shared. Instead of trying to fight it, you just bite your tongue and work with what you've got. Mountain climbers don't try to move the mountains, instead they climb them and work with it.
Meh, my $0.02
This is not relevant to the forum at all. I won't comment on your political views, either.
EDIT: Sorry for being off topic. Let's move on to something else.
Does anyone else think we should have more face contests? They're really fun, but I'm not sure how the committee feels about the number we have.
RE: Make your suggestions! - Poseidon - Aug. 12, 2011
maybe we keep the active advanced members and people that are active with the antique face maybe (best candates this way maybe) and we ellect a couple of new advanced mebers or even all the current adbanced mebers (active be mods and we ellect a few advanced members ?