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+--- Thread: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play (/Thread-The-Case-For-Banning-F230-From-Zero-G-Tournament-Play)
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Leone19 - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 3:09 AM)AÉ´É¢Ê€Ê Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: I should've made it clear originally, but your second point is what I was really trying to draw attention to. If even I could pull numbers as high as some of those with the alleged worst version of F230, and on cardboard no less, then you can just imagine what somebody with a good orange Takara Tomy F230 should be able to do.
At the same time, the vast majority of Hasbro F230's are pretty bad. Even when I cleaned my Orange and Red ones, they both constantly lost to Duo and even Phantom Stamina.
(Mar. 12, 2014 10:28 PM)Leone19 Wrote:(Feb. 22, 2014 9:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote: Speaking of that, I got the Hasbro's Orange, on Dragoon F230 CF it lost to Phantom Orion, about 95% of my informal matches.
(Mar. 13, 2014 7:33 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: I can confirm what Leone19 said. Hasbro's orange F230 Track isn't as effective as a TT one (which puts it back behind the point where it actually becomes a threat, as Duo SAA165EWD/B : D can out spin it pretty consistently).
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 16, 2014
That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - 6 God - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 7:36 PM)Lord Wrote: That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.
Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Leone19 - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 7:53 PM)Echizen Wrote:(Jul. 16, 2014 7:36 PM)Lord Wrote: That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.
Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.
It's just that only a specific version of the piece (which does happen to be the most expensive and rare) actually is being the problem, rather than the other versions of it.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Tri - Jul. 16, 2014
It's not hard to obtain at all, just expensive. Like whats been stated already so many times, that won't affect anything. A mass produced toy that was released just this past like year or two defintely isn't hard to get.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 7:56 PM)Leone19 Wrote:So the goal is to find a solution without taking money/availability into this?(Jul. 16, 2014 7:53 PM)Echizen Wrote:(Jul. 16, 2014 7:36 PM)Lord Wrote: That will make it less likely to ban. I think we shouldn't ban it at this point at least due to the decreasing of Zero G tournaments this year. If we were the only proper format would be Zero G and we also have to take in the factor that it's hard to find a good F230 for most people.
Like Kei said, money/availability shouldn't be a factor.
It's just that only a specific version of the piece (which does happen to be the most expensive and rare) actually is being the problem, rather than the other versions of it.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Leone19 - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 8:01 PM)Tr! Wrote: It's not hard to obtain at all, just expensive. Like whats been stated already so many times, that won't affect anything. A mass produced toy that was released just this past like year or two defintely isn't hard to get.
The expense can make it harder for people to get (not sure how many are willing to pay $50+ for that), not to mention the most common way is through Random Boosters.
But, I wasn't trying to say its a big affect, I was simply stating that it really is the only one version of it that is causing concern.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 16, 2014
That just makes it less likely to get banned. I think we should be specifying molds if we ban it, so how is it a problem if we just ban the Orange version?
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - The Supreme One - Jul. 16, 2014
Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 8:10 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.So it's ultimately determined by luck to see if you get a good F230 or not. Therefore we should ban all then?
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - 6 God - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 8:16 PM)Lord Wrote:(Jul. 16, 2014 8:10 PM)The Supreme One Wrote: Some brown Takara Tomy molds pose as much a problem as orange, not to mention thst there's a Hasbro orange & no way of differentiating between a Takara Tomy orange F230 & a really good Hasbro F230.So it's ultimately determined by luck to see if you get a good F230 or not. Therefore we should ban all then?
Yeah, plus it would be a big hassle determining which are usful and which aren't, at tournaments.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Angry Face - Jul. 16, 2014
(Jul. 16, 2014 4:49 PM)Leone19 Wrote:(Jul. 16, 2014 3:09 AM)AÉ´É¢Ê€Ê Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: I should've made it clear originally, but your second point is what I was really trying to draw attention to. If even I could pull numbers as high as some of those with the alleged worst version of F230, and on cardboard no less, then you can just imagine what somebody with a good orange Takara Tomy F230 should be able to do.
At the same time, the vast majority of Hasbro F230's are pretty bad. Even when I cleaned my Orange and Red ones, they both constantly lost to Duo and even Phantom Stamina.
(Mar. 12, 2014 10:28 PM)Leone19 Wrote:(Feb. 22, 2014 9:57 PM)Leone19 Wrote: Speaking of that, I got the Hasbro's Orange, on Dragoon F230 CF it lost to Phantom Orion, about 95% of my informal matches.(Mar. 13, 2014 7:33 PM)TheBlackDragon Wrote: I can confirm what Leone19 said. Hasbro's orange F230 Track isn't as effective as a TT one (which puts it back behind the point where it actually becomes a threat, as Duo SAA165EWD/B : D can out spin it pretty consistently).
True, Hasbro F230s are usually far less effective against opposite spin Stamina. However, Kei made no requests for Left-Spin F230CF/GCF against Right-Spin Stamina on the other page, so I did none (and it's not like we would've learned anything new, lol).
I not gonna do anymore Synchrome tests for now because my Beylauncher's gears are beginning to skip a lot when I launch Synchromes, but here are a few Right-Spin comparisons between my red F230 from before and my other Hasbro F230s for thoroughness' sake.
Equipment:
BBG-03 Zero-G Stadium Attack Type
Beylauncher + Launcher Rubber
Conditions:
Cardboard playing surface
Duo in Stamina Mode
SA165 in Normal Mode
Hasbro F230s (Click to View)
(Jul. 15, 2014 11:14 PM)AÉ´É¢Ê€Ê Fᴀᴄᴇ Wrote: Genbu Genbu F230[1]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 20/30 (1 OS, 19 KO)
DG: 10/30 (8 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[1]GCF Win Rate: 66.7%
Genbu Genbu F230[1]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 10/30 (10 KO)
DG: 20/30 (14 OS, 6 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[1]GCF Win Rate: 33.3%
Genbu Genbu F230[2]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 17/30 (17 KO)
DG: 13/30 (10 OS, 3 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[2]GCF Win Rate: 56.7%
Genbu Genbu F230[2]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 14/30 (14 KO)
DG: 16/30 (12 OS, 4 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[2]GCF Win Rate: 46.7%
Genbu Genbu F230[3]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 22/30 (22 KO)
DG: 8/30 (6 OS, 2 KO)
Ties: 1
F230[3]GCF Win Rate: 73.3%
Genbu Genbu F230[3]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 11/30 (11 KO)
DG: 19/30 (18 OS, 1 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[3]GCF Win Rate: 36.7%
Genbu Genbu F230[4]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165BWD:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 18/30 (1 OS, 17 KO)
DG: 12/30 (7 OS, 5 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[4]GCF Win Rate: 60.0%
Genbu Genbu F230[4]GCF vs. Duo Gasher SA165TB:
- Duo Gasher always launched first
GG: 9/30 (9 KO)
DG: 21/30 (14 OS, 7 KO)
Ties: 0
F230[4]GCF Win Rate: 30.0%
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 17, 2014
It still seems to me that luck determines which Habsros are good, but Takara Orange still seems to be the best.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - *Ginga* - Jul. 17, 2014
Sorry I I sous rude here but just going throught the posts today ... Can we avoid the points that have been repeated forever and ever ("lets only ban orange," "it's 2 expensive for me and others," "it's a rare bey").
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - LMAO - Jul. 17, 2014
Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.
Anyone else agree?
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:07 AM)LMAO Wrote: Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.
Anyone else agree?
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - LMAO - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:10 AM)Lord Wrote:(Jul. 17, 2014 3:07 AM)LMAO Wrote: Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.
Anyone else agree?
Don't forget Genbull Genbull and Duo, those are very much still top tier and are still very effective. Banning it with Dragooon wouldn't really make that much of a difference since everyone would still use Duo or Genbull.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - 6 God - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:07 AM)LMAO Wrote: Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.
Anyone else agree?
Honestly, I think this would be the best for everyone. It's not like Libra, Basalt, or Gravity which can be used for any number of things, this can only be used on an F230CF/GCF setup. Granted, it's probably a bit more complicated for tournaments, but not by much.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Leone19 - Jul. 17, 2014
Just browsing and figured I'd post this. Please don't attack it- I know this is "repeating" a point, but I would like to point out that I was told how easy it was to master the F230 launch (and my "8 year old brother could do it in 2 minutes"), yet I also saw this:
TheBlackDragon Wrote:I really do not want to offend any of the players from Toronto, as I respect them for their advancements to the game and their exceptional competitive prowess, but the fact here seems to be that they are simply not launching Dragooon F230CF/GCF correctly.
I don't understand how Toronto players (some of the highest ranked in the world) aren't able to launch it correctly, if it truly is so simple.
Again, not trying to "repeat" that, just wanted to point that out.
Anyways, if it were to be banned on certain setups, I wouldn't see why it should be on things like Genbull or Duo- they're good, but easier to defeat.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - 6 God - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:21 AM)Leone19 Wrote: Just browsing and figured I'd post this. Please don't attack it- I know this is "repeating" a point, but I would like to point out that I was told how easy it was to master the F230 launch (and my "8 year old brother could do it in 2 minutes"), yet I also saw this:
TheBlackDragon Wrote:I really do not want to offend any of the players from Toronto, as I respect them for their advancements to the game and their exceptional competitive prowess, but the fact here seems to be that they are simply not launching Dragooon F230CF/GCF correctly.
I don't understand how Toronto players (some of the highest ranked in the world) aren't able to launch it correctly, if it truly is so simple.
Again, not trying to "repeat" that, just wanted to point that out.
Wait, who said it was easy to launch? There's actually several different ways to launch it against opponents, weak launch, aggresive launch, bank(Insanely hard in Zero-G IMO), stall launch. That's all I can think of, and there's probably more.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - *Ginga* - Jul. 17, 2014
None of those are hard to do. Even banking, it's just tilting your launcher to the slope of the stadium.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - 6 God - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:26 AM)*Ginga* Wrote: None of those are hard to do. Even banking, it's just tilting your launcher to the slope of the stadium.I suppose, but it's still difficult to determine when to use them, at least for me anyways.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - Neo - Jul. 17, 2014
Gattiyaki is hard to pull off.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - RagerBlade - Jul. 17, 2014
(Jul. 17, 2014 3:14 AM)LMAO Wrote:Duo F230 isn't as powerful in Zero-G as in standard IMO, but Genbull Genbull has it's uses.(Jul. 17, 2014 3:10 AM)Lord Wrote:(Jul. 17, 2014 3:07 AM)LMAO Wrote: Wait, hold up, I know this was mentioned a million times before as well, but why don't we just ban F230 with CF or GCF, it's not like it's amazing with anything else, so banning that would be better. It would be fair for both sides of the argument, because whoever wants it banned, mostly want it banned because of the F230CF/GCF setup, so just banning the use of those parts together would be better. Also, for those who don't want F230 banned get that satisfaction of it not being banned, yet only that specific set up is banned.I agree with that since F230 completely loses it's LAD with out a Circle Flat tip to keep it standing, but why not just ban it with Dragooon since that's the only useful combo with F230CF/GCF in Zero-G.
Anyone else agree?
Don't forget Genbull Genbull and Duo, those are very much still top tier and are still very effective. Banning it with Dragooon wouldn't really make that much of a difference since everyone would still use Duo or Genbull.
RE: The Case For Banning F230 From Zero-G Tournament Play - DrPepsidew - Jul. 17, 2014
Duo is much better in Standard from my understanding. Also Neo, Gattyaki is hard with any bey to perfect.