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MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16) - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16) (/Thread-MFB-Limited-Ban-List-Discussion-v1-5-9-20-16)

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RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Neo - Jun. 09, 2014

There probably should be mode bans.
Like maybe some wheels could be unbanned if used with a Bottom that make the wheel fail?


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kai-V - Jun. 09, 2014

(Jun. 09, 2014  3:44 PM)Neo~ Wrote: There probably should be mode bans.
Like maybe some wheels could be unbanned if used with a Bottom that make the wheel fail?

The ban list is already complicated, so that would be too much.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - LikeABoss921 - Jun. 09, 2014

But if you did use an banned wheel with a part that is to make the banned part fail then no one would use it so then u would just stick to using other customizations instead. Which would just lead to the conclusion to just leave it banned.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Angry Face - Jun. 09, 2014

(Jun. 09, 2014  3:29 PM)Dark_Mousy Wrote: Whatnif we had it wjere sa165 had to be in zero g attack mode? Ill try amd get some tests up today

Regardless of SA165's mode, it's still a powerhouse Track for every type.

The way I see it, if SA165 was unbanned:
  • +- Every type could get a weight boost
    +- Right-Spin Stamina would use SA165 to counter Left-Spin Stamina on SA165
    +- Vice versa
    +- Stamina types of both directions would become heavier
    -- SA165 would become the most popular Stamina Track due to all the Spin-steal countering
    -- Players would be less likely to use other defensive Tracks for lack of security
    -- Attack would be forced to use SA165 to counter all the similarly matched height opponents

In short, the game becomes a little more like Standard format. SA165 can be used over any other Track in the format for almost every purpose. What good does unbanning it do for the game? Make the already dominant types even more dominant, but with less variation? Confused


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Wombat - Jun. 09, 2014

Alright guys, I did some SA165 tests last night (kept me up until 1 because I have no life) and it is broken in Defense, Stamina, and Anti-Attack. The only Attack types that really appreciate it are Jade and Wyvang, and even they don't put up great numbers. Note that I don't own any of the "OP" wheels in Limited (Libra, Scythe, Omega) so these won't be as relevant as some others, but they're still something.

I wasn't quite sure what the other mode for SA165 besides Zero-G Attack was called, so I called it funnel/Stamina.

Attack

Defense

Anti-Attack

And if that's not argument enough so that SA165 should stay banned, a few of you people are talking about bringing Gravity back. I also did some Gravity SA165 tests and they cannot exist at the same time in the Limited meta.


Like I said earlier, I don't have the parts, but I think Omega SA165 would get at least 50-60% (I think it hits horizontally, I've never actually taken a close look at Omega), and Omega attack would have scored higher on SA165 Defense/Anti Attack/Perseus. Also imagine Scythe SA165 defense and Libra SA165 Anti-Attack.

As for Gravity and SA165, it's either one or none. I don't even have the Stamina version of Perseus and it almost shut out the Attack types. We could do that thing where Gravity gets locked into one direction or where SA165 has to be in Zero-G Attack mode, but I'm personally not a huge fan of those more complex bans.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Leone19 - Jun. 09, 2014

Big thanks to Womb@ for posting these.

It pretty much proves what a lot of us (including me) have been saying, recently.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 09, 2014

Quote:At least personally, I feel that unbanning SA165 just makes spin stealers more of a problem, reduces the number of competitively viable tracks, and fails to add any new wrinkles to the metagame
also, I thought sa165 was supposed to be used in zero-g attack mode for defense which if that is the case it just proves how ludicrous the idea of it being unbanned is


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - RagerBlade - Jun. 09, 2014

(Jun. 09, 2014  11:15 PM)Time Wrote:
Quote:At least personally, I feel that unbanning SA165 just makes spin stealers more of a problem, reduces the number of competitively viable tracks, and fails to add any new wrinkles to the metagame
also, I thought sa165 was supposed to be used in zero-g attack mode for defense which if that is the case it just proves how ludicrous the idea of it being unbanned is
Then there needs to be major tests for it's defense, to see if it does as good Defense and Attack in limited, as it does in Zero-G.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Tri - Jun. 09, 2014

It does, unquestionably. It's ridiculous really how much it would wreck the format with one part.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kei - Jun. 10, 2014

This is definitely a fun discussion, and it certainly doesn't hurt to do testing with parts like this just for the assumptions they confirm, but I can say with great certainty that SA165 will not be unbanned for Limited Format. As you guys have already outlined, it's way too good for too many things. If it were unbanned, the format in many ways would revolve around it.

That said, I don't think you should necessarily stop testing; it's always possible to discover something unexpected.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 10, 2014

What is the combo people are most afraid of if gravity were to be unbanned with both spin directions? If it's f230, there are many an option for beating it, my personal favorite being scythe hades 230 tb


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Tri - Jun. 10, 2014

Gravity F230/D125 GCF/CF are the main 2 I believe. Attack wise it wasn't unstoppable so I'm guessing those were the main 2.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Leone19 - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  2:21 AM)Tr! Wrote: Gravity F230/D125 GCF/CF are the main 2 I believe. Attack wise it wasn't unstoppable so I'm guessing those were the main 2.

I believe one of the other reasons it was banned was to promote the use of other Attack wheels, since it seemed to overshadow a lot of them, as Gravity was thought to be very powerful.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 10, 2014

Hmm, so omega basically took it's place. But, at least Pegasis, Wyvang, balro and possibly thief phoenic all have more pure attack than it


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Neo - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  3:00 AM)Time Wrote: Hmm, so omega basically took it's place. But, at least Pegasis, Wyvang, balro and possibly thief phoenic all have more pure attack than it

Pegasis is a top tier smash wheel with RF and a metal face. But Gravity is banned right?


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 10, 2014

Yes, sorry, I'm not understanding your post, was it just confirming something or trying to say something about pegasis?


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Mitsu - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  2:21 AM)Tr! Wrote: Gravity F230/D125 GCF/CF are the main 2 I believe. Attack wise it wasn't unstoppable so I'm guessing those were the main 2.

From attending a Limited Format event before Gravity had a ban, I know that those were the main two competitive Gravity-involving combos at the time. I myself can't remember a Gravity combo with as much competitive use as the two. I'm pretty sure Left-spin-non-synchromes on F230 were able to beat Gravity_D125GCF, though.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Angry Face - Jun. 10, 2014

If Gravity's spin becomes limited to just one direction per Beybattle, then the F230CF/GCF and 125GCF setups could become very risky choices at tournaments. If a player who uses Gravity picks the most advantageous direction for what the situation calls for, then nice job there, but a winner isn't declared till the battle's over. If a player picks the less appropriate spin direction, then, while the battle's not over yet, it certainly puts the Gravity user in a bind.

With this new 'one spin direction per Beybattle' ruling, Gravity users, unlike players of singular-directionally spinning tops, would have to make the decisions of what combination to use and what spin direction to use it in individually because their choice of Wheels has no set spin direction, while still offering the same customizability as Wheels that are limited to one. With the decisions split, Gravity users would have to not only pick an appropriate combo, but they would also have to worry about which spin direction the situation might call for, which, in a tournament environment, could make the decision-making process more difficult and stress the player further.

Overall, I believe introducing the rule that th!nk proposed to deal with the issue of Gravity would be effective, turning the use of dual-spin Wheels into a higher risk, yet same high reward type play.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Neo - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  3:33 AM)Time Wrote: Yes, sorry, I'm not understanding your post, was it just confirming something or trying to say something about pegasis?

If Gravity is banned in a certain mode; then Pegasis is the best wheel.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - 6 God - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  4:41 PM)Neo~ Wrote:
(Jun. 10, 2014  3:33 AM)Time Wrote: Yes, sorry, I'm not understanding your post, was it just confirming something or trying to say something about pegasis?

If Gravity is banned in a certain mode; then Pegasis is the best wheel.
There are a few metal wheels better than Pegasis for attack, such as Jade, Wyvang, Omega, maybe even Thief Phoenix.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Neo - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  5:07 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote:
(Jun. 10, 2014  4:41 PM)Neo~ Wrote:
(Jun. 10, 2014  3:33 AM)Time Wrote: Yes, sorry, I'm not understanding your post, was it just confirming something or trying to say something about pegasis?

If Gravity is banned in a certain mode; then Pegasis is the best wheel.
There are a few metal wheels better than Pegasis for attack, such as Jade, Wyvang, Omega, maybe even Thief Phoenix.

Omega is too OP and needs a ban.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Leone19 - Jun. 10, 2014

(Jun. 10, 2014  5:09 PM)Neo~ Wrote:
(Jun. 10, 2014  5:07 PM)TheWhiteTiger Wrote:
(Jun. 10, 2014  4:41 PM)Neo~ Wrote: If Gravity is banned in a certain mode; then Pegasis is the best wheel.
There are a few metal wheels better than Pegasis for attack, such as Jade, Wyvang, Omega, maybe even Thief Phoenix.

Omega is too OP and needs a ban.

That's a great statement, but based on AN results, it may or may not happen.

Before you post pretty big statements like that, which have been posted a lot before, get a little evidence to back it up. Tongue_out


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 10, 2014

On the subject of gravity f230, unless my f230 is complete carp all of a sudden, a ridiculous amount of things out spin it:

All tests out of 20.

Burn staller: 85% win rate
Meteo f230 gcf: 70% win rate
Scythe 230 tb: 55% win rate
Duo b:d: 80% win rate
Pegasis attack: 70% win rate
Libra th170 d: 70% win rate


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - 6 God - Jun. 10, 2014

Try using the F230 from your Meteo, to see if yours is having trouble.


RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - TimeOut - Jun. 10, 2014

I switched them around repeatedly