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+---- Thread: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion (v1.5 - 9/20/16) (/Thread-MFB-Limited-Ban-List-Discussion-v1-5-9-20-16)
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 19, 2014
Honestly, I'd personally rather people just use whatever they think is best. As it is, Gravity is already banned anyway so it's kinda besides the point now, but what I would most want to see is what is normal - whether other factors or things that have changed since the tournaments it dominated took place, or whether it could continue to do so anyway. Keep the factors as few as possible, ya know?
I'm still curious about what exactly stopped certain gravity spin stealers from doing really well in the last tournament you had, mostly whether it lost or just wasn't used and in the latter case, I'm curious as to why people didn't use it seeing as from what I remember there weren't too many threats to gravity f230cf it in the winning combos list (I understand why gravity attack might not but from what I remember your winning combos list was one that was a bit susceptible to other uses of it, also if you did reply to this if I asked you before sorry, bad memory.)
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Coach - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 12:05 PM)th!nk Wrote: I'm still curious about what exactly stopped certain gravity spin stealers from doing really well in the last tournament you had, mostly whether it lost or just wasn't used and in the latter case, I'm curious as to why people didn't use it seeing as from what I remember there weren't too many threats to gravity f230cf it in the winning combos list (I understand why gravity attack might not but from what I remember your winning combos list was one that was a bit susceptible to other uses of it, also if you did reply to this if I asked you before sorry, bad memory.)Most bladers up here are more creative than that. Yes we do have Orange F230s as well. But we find using a combo like that completely boring. Which is another reason you'll see our bladers like Yuko and formerly Panasher using combos not on the CC list but that end up getting on the list.
Spamming F230(g)CF is not challenging. I've spammed Flash in the past, Wyatt's spammed Wyvang^2 at the last tournament but spamming attacks is actually challenging when you allow your opponent to counter you. But for the most part each blader will have about 4 beys already put together, and usually they'll have their own customization to them. It's about the spirit of the game, not going undefeated by using a pretty much guaranteed win bey.
Last tournament you gave props to Shining for trying out all sorts of different zero-g combos. And that's what we do a lot of just not quite to Shining's extent.
Edit: Oh and I did use Gravity D125GCF, and lost tied 2-2 on a SKO to Round Shell MS, giving her her only win. I believe she KO'd me twice I don't remember what she was using.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 19, 2014
That sentiment is something your community should be proud of (and something with which I agree fully), but at the same time I have to ask, if Gravity is so good you've decided using it goes against the spirit of the game, does that not show an underlying belief that it is too powerful in some way for regular play? I understand not using it because it is boring and generic, but at the same time that only gives credence to the tournaments it did dominate or at least doesn't say much against it being overpowered.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Coach - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 12:26 PM)th!nk Wrote: That sentiment is near to my heart, but at the same time if Gravity is so good you've decided using it goes against the spirit of the game, does that not show an underlying belief that it is too powerful in some way?
actually I did use it twice and lost both times, so obviously I was reluctant to use it again.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - East - Jan. 19, 2014
This is legitimately lame. Not only was another viable and great, yet completely beatable, wheel banned because of lack of creativity and testing. I would even take it a step further as to say utter laziness. Honestly, I feel like people who were against Gravity being banned were cut out of the discussion or decision to ban it. Gravity was in no way dominating any region that was attack heavy or even creative enough to use other than what the general tier list or meta game suggests. Coach put in a significant amount of work and made countless points on why this was unwarranted and many others shared their own individual input. Still, the ban was made out of fear not because it is broken. Now Scythe is next I'm sure and yet again, an easily beaten wheel with the right concept in mind especially considering those ridiculously vulnerable protrusions it has on the top of the wheel to replace TT Scythe's PC frame. Jade kills that all day. Floor scrapes galore and Pegasis H145 (even W145) does the same. We all know Cosmic is no pushover . All these wheels with potential and they all could beat Gravity and Scythe.
Also, every combo Coach listed could indeed contest, and in many cases, defeat Gravity.
It's becoming far too familiar seeing these cop outs for the format lately. Only good thing I can say about this is now I don't have to spend time recording and wearing down my parts to show how Gravity F230 or even just Gravity gets beat out by other viable combos but it at least would have been fun to see other people explore and find this out too. I really just think it's wrong for the people who went out to buy a Gravity, despite whatever price they paid, just for this format to now have to throw it back in a heap of trash because it's been banned before they had a chance to enjoy it. It's really going to come down to Flame vs. Thermals, Dark vs. Poison and Pegasis vs. L-Drago.
All in all, I respect other testers for them taking time to test. I just feel like a lot more could have been done to Gravity and the potential ban, Scythe. I can help with Scythe testing as I have already done some recently.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Cake - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 2:31 AM)th!nk Wrote:(Jan. 19, 2014 2:16 AM)Cake Wrote: So I've been doing some more tests with Jade, and I am completely in favor of unbanning Jade. While Jade appears to be extremely effective vs. Stamina, anything with a rubber tip will completely stop it. Jade smashes stuff into the ground quite a bit, so anything with rubber just gets that grippy stuff crammed even harder into the stadium floor.
For Jade to get unbanned, more formal testing is needed.
The tricky part about testing Jade is that there really aren't any pre-defined combinations to use with it; should I just run through conventional Defense and Stamina setups, and throw in a few Force Smash combos for Attack?
Here's what I'm thinking:
Defense: MF-H Jade (Attack Mode) Aquario TR145/85RB
Stamina: Jade (Attack Mode) Aquario AD145/85WD
Attack: MF-H Jade (Defense Mode) Pisces 160RF
Force Smash: MF-H Jade (Defense Mode) Pisces SR200RF
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - East - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 3:24 PM)Cake Wrote:(Jan. 19, 2014 2:31 AM)th!nk Wrote:(Jan. 19, 2014 2:16 AM)Cake Wrote: So I've been doing some more tests with Jade, and I am completely in favor of unbanning Jade. While Jade appears to be extremely effective vs. Stamina, anything with a rubber tip will completely stop it. Jade smashes stuff into the ground quite a bit, so anything with rubber just gets that grippy stuff crammed even harder into the stadium floor.
For Jade to get unbanned, more formal testing is needed.
The tricky part about testing Jade is that there really aren't any pre-defined combinations to use with it; should I just run through conventional Defense and Stamina setups, and throw in a few Force Smash combos for Attack?
Here's what I'm thinking:
Defense: MF-H Jade (Attack Mode) Aquario TR145/85RB
Stamina: Jade (Attack Mode) Aquario AD145/85WD
Attack: MF-H Jade (Defense Mode) Pisces 160RF
Force Smash: MF-H Jade (Defense Mode) Pisces SR200RF
Jade R145R2F, Jade UW145RF, Jade A230R2F and Jade H145R2F have all worked well for me against LTDC and stamina. I would start there for attack and as for the rest, not so sure . I generally don't like Jade on stamina or defensive set ups as it is an easy target for KO and has low stamina anyway.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kaneki - Jan. 19, 2014
East: Um... If we didn't ban Gravity or any other stuff what would be the point to have this format? The onl reason it was banned, was because, people kept using it at tournaments and it seemed "Game Breaking" Whilst I agree it isn't that "powerful" I believe it was a great step in Limited. We can see use of other attack wheels now. Scythe is only OP if it's a "AA2" mold.
I honestly think Jade could come off, I got some tests for it I'll post shortly.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 19, 2014
I'd go with H145 or GB145 for the Attack track just to hopefully put weight behind contact points, against (145-height) Defense and another competitive attack type preferrably one with decent weight also on a 145-height track.
Defensively I'd go with 85 as one of them, but for 145-heights which is also worth looking at I don't know what the underside is like i.e. if anything can help it. Either way, GB145 or R145 will probably be fine, again testing against 145-height attack.
Dunno what CW you're gonna want for attack, tempted to say go for Aquario or Bull for weight but if they're getting in the way use what you think is best. Aquario is actually not that hot for stamina IMO (Cygnus, Cancer and SonoKong's Pegasis II are way better (heck TT's Pegasis II is probably at least on par)) but I need to do solo spins to show that, still though, better choice for that.
Apparently the stamina is awful but yeah, generic 145 v 145 on WD's or whatever, not as big a priority as the attack and defense.
Force Smash, personally for that kind of thing I've always liked TH170's extra versatility over something fixed height but again, I don't have jade so I couldn't tell you for sure. A230 is an interesting suggestion as it *is* the heaviest track in the format, however personally I find its recoil very problematic even with RF, though admittedly I haven't used it much. Play around and see what you think works best and then test it, really.
Hope that helps, kinda tired atm.
East: I'll get back to your posts some other time, sorry, do wanna respond to stuff you've said about scythe though probably better to have that discussion in one of the directly related topics. Just quickly though I'm not sure how pegasis H145 or any 145 really is gonna do much to scythe defense which is primarily 145-height, so its topside doesn't take hits, any pegasis combo getting under it sacrifices weight which seems to cause problems for me with more aggro RSF's. Knowing the mold number of your scythe would be really good too (AA# under the crossbar the CW sits on) - scythe ch120rf thread has some info on the whole thing if you haven't read it, so I'd give that a look.
For the record, stillllll on the fence about gravity, awaiting further post-mortem examination of NC's tourney today and have some things to say about my belief we should look into any possibilities of unbanning it if they arise (for me it makes a lot of otherwise useful parts vaguely viable but I need to test more etc), but more concerned again about the process as per my huge post on the previous page.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - [)ragon - Jan. 19, 2014
I flat out completely oppose banning Gravity in every way. With all due respect to such high ranking members who made the descision, I am going to make this short, blunt, and to the point:
Gravity F230 customs are broken. Saying "Gravity is the scource of the problem," is no more viable than saying "F230CF/GCF is the source of the problem." Neither F230CF/GCF nor Gravity are broken on their own. If you're gonna go back on the argument that Gravity is far better than any other Attack wheel in the format, give me testing, because I have found this notion to be false. It's recoil is also extremely high when used on Stamina setups, and I don't care how weak you launch it, you will lose to an Attack type.
Here is, again, a cut-out from one of my previous posts.:
Quote:On the subject of Gravity, I oppose its ban. In my honest opinion, given 1) the fact that it truly is not the highest powered Attack wheel in the format, 2) the fact that, in a tournament situation and with an average launch, it will lose consistently to LTDC, 3) the fact that RF Defense can easily take it out, and 4) the fact that RB is being reintroduced, that Gravity Attack types are not unhealthy for this format. They work consistently against MTDC, and HTDC, both of which Lightning and Beat cover. Regardless of your 50-60% wins rates against Earth LTDC ( I would like to note that Bakushin can easily take it out), you will not win in a tournament scenario without an extreme degree of luck.
Overall, it is not really much more effective than other options. I would just as soon use Lightning, Beat, Cosmic, Phoenic or Omega as I would use Gravity.
Gravity spin-equalizers, though they are effective, are not unhealthy for the format in my opinion. Gravity EWD is easily countered with an Attack type, no matter how weak you launch it. The idea that these customs choke the use of other Stamina Metal Wheels could be true, or it could not. The fact is, in a match with Earth 85EWD vs. Gravity 85EWD, Earth will most likely win regardless of what spin direction the opponent uses. Its weight distribution is quite undesirable for a spin stealer in and of itself, and I honestly don't think conventional Stamina will become unviable.
Again, depending on the situation, I would definitely use other competitive Stamina wheels over Gravity it I had the option. I just really don't think the Stamina meta will take a beating from Gravity. Just because it's good isn't a reason to ilegalize it. As long as it isn't dominating/choking the use of other wheels (which is hasn't yet), then IMO we should just leave it alone.
Again, we've only had like, what, 3 limited tournaments? All in different places? So I could definitely be wrong, or I could be right. This is one of those subjects that's a little cloudy, and we just have to wait and see what happens before we take action.
Here is my response to something Ingulit posted in the advanced forum, and that has been widely accepted, reagardless of the fact that there is virtually zero evidence to back it up, and, in my humble opinion, and with all due respect to Ingulit, isn't the best though-out or thoroughly researched statement:
Ingulit Wrote:While Gravity is more debatable, it is currently overwhelmingly dominating Limited tournaments according to current tournament results...
... Seriously?
With all due respect, you're saying that Gravity has completely taken over the entire Limited format meta, based on 1 tournament that wasn't even played for points? In Toronto, only two Gravity customs were used that weren't CF/GCF based, and in Illinois, it literally never showed up. (those were the only Limited format tournaments played at that point)
TheBlackDragon Wrote:In North Carolina, I'm around the players a lot and I can say with confidence that it's honestly mostly their mindset. Thunder Dome and I really like playing Gravity, and so did Angry, and at that tournament all the other kids playing (including Z Cole, the third placer) just copied us because they figured our strategies were effective, seeing as we were all ranked top 50 at that point. Nobody worried about having to beat Gravity (in fact, I was almost sure Thunder Dome was going to pull it on me, and I was fine with switching out to Earth. didn't bother me at all). Thunder Dome and I played the final match both with Earth customs. It's not like we were super insecure without it. We weren't even thinking about whether or not we were overusing it. We were just having fun with a tournament that didn't cost us points!
Well, I've finally confirmed this, at the Limited format tournament nobody decided to wait for, this happened:
Quote:Alright, I'm home.
Well, the results for Limited format!
1st: TheBlackDragon (MF-F/H Earth Pegasis II 85CS, MF-H Lightning L-Drago TR145/CH120R2F, MF-H Duo Pegasis II 230MB, Scythe Pegasis II 230CS, MF-H Gravity Perseus (Stamina ver.) F230CF)
Yes, I used Gravity F230. XD I was in the middle of a stalling clause, and Dark called 30 seconds and it was the only thing I had built, so I had to go with it. I only used it once, though.
2nd: BladerLight (Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F, Meteo L-Drago B : D)
He used plenty of other stuff, but I can't remember exactly what. I know he didn't use Gravity, though.
3rd: Wombat (MF-H Bakushin Leone 90RSF, MF-H Lightning L-Drago TR145R2F)
He also used a couple other things, but I'm not totally sure what. Positive there was no Gravity.
All in all, today was an awesome day. Both events were absolutely fantastic... Gravity F230 actually only won twice today. Lightning Attack was all over the place, and it kinda took a dive (plus, we actually found out that Burn 85MF can take it out).
I'd also like to note that there are no conventional Gravity Attack/Stamina customs in the winning combos. Gravity Attack was not used, and Gravity Stamina only showed up twice, both cases in which it lost. Called it...
And I went 2-0 against Geester! CHEW ON THAT MARYLAND!!
It turns out, in the one place Gravity was spammed in a tournament with no beypoints where we were all goofing off was not representative of our meta at all. Gravity was used today, but it got beat, really, really bad. Like I mentioned before, Gravity spin equalizers have extremely high recoil, and are altogether unsafe in a meta where semi-aggressive combos are used. It actually lost to Defense yesterday via KO.
This was the first Limited tournament format in history that was played for points. The others are honestly not the greatest representation of the meta, since the players weren't concerned much at all about losing. This here is the first bit of solid tournament results we've gotten, and it shows that, even in the same meta where Gravity was spammed before the announcement that these tournaments would be played for beypoints, if you place the players in a competitive situation their style is completely different.
Gravity is not "overwhelmingly dominating the Limited format metagame."
Even if you take the misrepresentative tournaments that were played with no competitive consequence invloved, out of all the Limited format tournaments we've ever had, only 9 of the 54 winning combinations were conventional Gravity Attack/Stamina. that's only 16.7%. Hardly overwhelmingly dominant if you ask me.
Plus, we can even go farther than that, considering these are two different types of combinations, let's see what happens when we divide the up into Attack and Stamina subsections and compare them to the statistics of other popular wheels:
Lets' see the statistics for conventional Lightning/Earth combinations:
Lightning Attack: 4/54 (7.4%) vs. Gravity Attack: 5/54 (9.2%)
Not many other Attack wheels have come to be used yet (probably due to the fact that nobody owns them yet), so these are the only two listed. IIRC Beat was used once. If you count that crazy tournament with all the Gravities in it, which is obviously not representative of NC's meta based on the results that came out yesterday, Gravity is used about 50% of the time for Attack.
Earth Stamina: 10/54 (18.5%) vs. Gravity Stamina: 4/54 (7.4%)
Burn Stamina: 4/54 (7.4%) vs. Gravity Stamina: 4/54 (7.4%)
I don't honestly see how you could come to the conclusion that Gravity is choking the meta based on these numbers. I would also like to note specifically that Lightning is far less available to most players than Gravity, and as such, if Gravity was truly dominant over Lightning, its percentage should be at least 50% higher, but it isn't.
In short, I honestly think the idea that Gravity is being crazy spammed at tournaments and completely shutting down use of other wheels is kind of ridiculous based on these numbers. The fact is, it's not. I don't know how you can argue with these statistics. From what has been suggested, it sounds like Gravity is 60-70% of the entire format, which is, in fact not true in the least.
Now, the problem was Gravity F230CF/GCF. However, I have proposed a perfectly efficient way to fix that problem in the past (though nobody seemed to pay attention to it), without hurting the conventional combos, which, in fact, are not dominating tournaments by any stretch. In my honest, humble opinion, we should do something to rid ourselves of the F230/T125CF/GCF customs, rather than slamming a slew of conventional Gravity customs to get them out of our way.
That said, I can't stop the update from happening, but IMO we should seriously look into re-introducing Gravity later. It's super fun to use and makes everything more interesting. It's really kind of a drag to see it go.
It will be great to see Gravity F230 gone, but it kind of kills the moment to see everything else get tossed along with it.Super sorry if I sounded rude. I really don't want to disrespect anybody with this post, let alone the members who made the decision concerning Gravity. Please forgive me if I did. I'm just really kinda ancy about it right now. XD I'll probably calm down within the next couple hours, LOL!
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Snoop Dog MS - Jan. 19, 2014
I am in complete agreement with TheBlackDragon because IMO, I don't see how Gravity attack dominates, especially in tournaments. And another thing, Round Shell MS used Gravity Perseus(Left Spin) F230(Orange)GCF and weak launched plus banked but got KOed by Burn Bull 230CS.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kaneki - Jan. 19, 2014
I'm not in agreeing with TheBlackDragon. All I'm gonna say is why didn't you guys say so? I mean all I could see in the "Winning Combos" thread was Gravity being used. Now, if I was advanced and I saw this, I would think it's OP. If Burn could win it, why didn't you do tests to back it up? Maybe Gravity might of not got banned. Anyway, if it never got banned, what would if? I'm gonna say banning Gravity was OK. I never once saw any Non-Gravity Attack wheels being used. So I'm guessing that's why it got banned. It may not be OP, but from threads it looked like it was taking over. F230 Gravity is quite good, in fact, it's kinda OP. Whilst the rest of the Gravit combos (Attack) mainly get 70% wins.
I'm sticking with my post. Sorry if I came of rude, haha.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Snoop Dog MS - Jan. 19, 2014
But... ya know tournament results are better, right? At the Illinois tournament, Gravity was SO weak. I mean it couldn't even KO Stamina :\
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kaneki - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 4:57 PM)Shining Dog MS Wrote: But... ya know tournament results are better, right? At the Illinois tournament, Gravity was SO weak. I mean it couldn't even KO Stamina :\
If tournament results are better, then how come Gravity allways showed up? If it couldn't KO Stamina: 1. You must not be launching right. 2. Why did it allways show up as winning. Now, I know it can KO stamina. I used to go to tournaments and I used it once against Burn__ and I got all 3. This was in free play. So yeah...
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Snoop Dog MS - Jan. 19, 2014
Coach was using it, and he is a pretty good Attack user so. And free-play against who?
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Coach - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 5:11 PM)" L Wrote:(Jan. 19, 2014 4:57 PM)Shining Dog MS Wrote: But... ya know tournament results are better, right? At the Illinois tournament, Gravity was SO weak. I mean it couldn't even KO Stamina :\
If tournament results are better, then how come Gravity allways showed up? If it couldn't KO Stamina: 1. You must not be launching right. 2. Why did it allways show up as winning. Now, I know it can KO stamina. I used to go to tournaments and I used it once against Burn__ and I got all 3. This was in free play. So yeah...
Just because you ignore what we tell you doesn't mean we didn't tell you!
It was used at least 4 times and lost all 4 times. Believe it or not, it happened!
It didn't show up in winning combos because it didn't win, not because it wasn't used
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kaneki - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 5:14 PM)Shining Dog MS Wrote: Coach was using it, and he is a pretty good Attack user so. And free-play against who?
I know he is. So am I. I love Attack type and I'm saying I could KO stamina. Now I'm not gonna lie, its attack isn't that "POWERFUL" but it kept showing up in the winning combos for Limited...
I believe it was Void IIRC.
Coach: I saw MF-H Gravity Perseus R145R2F in some tournaments. It may not of won there, but it did in other places. I do take notice of what people say. We all have different launching. Now, I don't want to fight, but that's what I'm seeing.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - 6 God - Jan. 19, 2014
First off, TBD, there was no Gravity used in the NC tournament, because you agreed not to use it.
I'm nearly totally one-sided with its Ban TBH. With it gone, it really opens up more attack types being tested, even one some of us have never seen before, LLD TR145R2F, and the Meta aren't using things to try and defeat it.
There are a lot of amazing Gravity Customs besides Stamina.
Gravity D125GCF, Gravity F230CF/GCF, Gravity R145R2F(Even if it doesn't do well against LTDC), and the list goes on because of its versatility. The Gravity Stamina tests are kinda weird.... Why not post those sooner and have some one back them up? While I must admit, Stamina is not the strongest side of Gravity, Gravity is still used in limitless combinations throughout tournaments.
It's really kind of impossible to ban something like F230CF/GCF or D125/GCF because they have other uses in certain combos that fair viable to the Meta.
Just my 2 cents or something. And I don't mean to take offense, it's just my side of the arguement.
(Dec. 30, 2013 2:28 AM)UltimateOrion Wrote: New Bey Year-12/29/13(Limited Format)
- 1st:UltimateOrion-Dark Knight Balro W145CF(Crystal Up), Earth Bull C145BWD/EWD
2ndxtremeBlader3-MF-H Earth Bull GB145WD, Gravity Destroyer F230GCF ,Meteo L-Drago T125CF
3rd:UltimiteCrown- Earth Bull 85RSF, MF-L Gravity Perseus R145RF , MF-M Gravity Perseus B
And you can't tell me Dark Knight Balro, MLD, Earth Bull, weren't just put in there to counter the conventional Gravity combo. Over 1/3 of the combos used where gravity.
Edit: On the account of the first part of my post, there are two sides of the arguement and no way to tell which is true.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kai-V - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 5:20 PM)"Kira Wrote: First off, TBD, there was no Gravity used in the NC tournament, because you agreed not to use it.
Wah, can I just know where this comes from ? If your source is confidential, can you at least let me know by private message ?
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - DrPepsidew - Jan. 19, 2014
Wombat, post 135 I believe in the Raleigh Revival Cup thread.
I like Gravity, and I had two combos using it. Granted, I didn't stay for limited, but I'm happy it was banned. Stuff gets boring y'know? It makes room for more variety, that of which I love. Quit whining and play the game hah. Adapt, battle, conquer.
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Kaneki - Jan. 19, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 7:59 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Wombat, post 135 I believe in the Raleigh Revival Cup thread.
I like Gravity, and I had two combos using it. Granted, I didn't stay for limited, but I'm happy it was banned. Stuff gets boring y'know? It makes room for more variety, that of which I love. Quit whining and play the game hah. Adapt, battle, conquer.
I love this guy!!! This is what I mean as well. It'd get boring without any change. It's been banned now, so I guess there's nothing we can do. I'm happy it's gone, now other attack wheels, Attack!
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - DrPepsidew - Jan. 19, 2014
Hah thanks, that and I love defense so it kinda sucks when it isn't much help in a type advantage either XD
VIVA LA DEFENSE. Lightning isn't all that hard to counter with BD145 outta the question so I'm satisfied with the list, especially RB unbanned. And I'm not worried about Omega
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - Ingulit - Jan. 20, 2014
(Jan. 19, 2014 7:59 PM)DrPepsidew Wrote: Wombat, post 135 I believe in the Raleigh Revival Cup thread.
I like Gravity, and I had two combos using it. Granted, I didn't stay for limited, but I'm happy it was banned. Stuff gets boring y'know? It makes room for more variety, that of which I love. Quit whining and play the game hah. Adapt, battle, conquer.
These are the times I really wish I could "like" posts
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 20, 2014
IDK I kinda like how gravity makes a few other parts mostly tips vaguely useful. I mean I still need to get my hands on an F230 before I can really talk about the main combo here and what part of it is to blame, but I guess we'll see how things turn out anyway.
The decision is made so there is little point arguing about it now, the NC tournament is interesting and definitely needs looking into but I would not expect a change before the March update if there is one so focusing on things that we could possibly look at for Feb 1st (i.e. Jade) right now would probably be a better approach for the moment. I very much understand that feelings might be a little fiery with what has been a less-than-smooth first update, but for the time being, I'd suggest we let it be. If you want to posts tests etc showing Gravity should be unbanned, then that's fine, if you want to argue for the banning of other parts that if removed would make gravity less of a problem, that's fine too, but I'd say it would be best to do so with more evidence and so on.
I've had a little more success handling scythe with attack lately - don't get me wrong it's still too strong for my tastes but MF-H LLD TR145RF fills the role of a solid attack combo that does well against it while also not being destroyed by bakushin even with weak launching (also without quite the same risk as LLD H145, though it still aint got nothin' on GP(ATK)R145 for me in terms of beating all the things - probably helps that I learnt to sliding shoot with gravity though) and while RB is a concern for various reasons, the verdict is to wait for tournaments, so we will - though obviously further testing on the defense of less-good molds would be good too, heck generally speaking if people have ideas for how to handle AA2 scythes with things that also work in the broader metagame then now would be a great time to post some tests or at least reasoned explanations of how they work in the relevant threads!
Personally, I still stand by my suggestions regarding changes to the process, but I can accept that those are fairly large things to bring up and therefore likely to take time and much serious discussion or may simply not be worth it at all if other things "fill in" for them, per se. Still think it's a win win tho
I like gravity, and I'm still on the fence about the ban but I think it's time to move on. We have two new parts to play with as well as the possibility of Jade making an appearance and the inevitable confusion between the 4D and Metal Fury versions that will ensue so let's not let one somewhat controversial decision ruin what I think we can all agree is a fantastic format anyway, okay (especially with some of that boring spin-stealer stuff removed).
RE: MFB: Limited :: Ban List Discussion - [)ragon - Jan. 20, 2014
I just wanna make something clear here. NOBODY in NC agreed not to use Gravity. I don't know where that rumor started, but it is completely false.
I'm still pretty happy-ish with the ban list. I seriously hate to see Gravity go, as I think the problem could've been dealt with much more efficiently, but at least Gravity F230 is gone. That's a serious load off, I'll admit, but I'm a bit disappointed and I expect tournaments around here won't be quite as interesting. But hey, with or without Gravity, this format will still be a flippin' blast!
I would also disagree slightly with the decision on scythe, given the fact that we do have gamebreaking results with it and we've pretty much confirmed that it's due to the mold number, but, as everyone around here has AA1's and AA3's, it won't impact us too much. Still, with the Defense numbers AA2 is putting up, unbanning RB and banning Gravity simultaneously is gonna be a serious hit to Attack.
However, I'm super stoked about Omega. Everyone in NC better pull out their 230's, 'cause the LTAC freight train's coming!!