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+--- Thread: WBO Random Thoughts (/Thread-WBO-Random-Thoughts)
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RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Angry Face - Apr. 07, 2016
I just learned what a spinster is, but it only makes Spinster's username all the better. xD
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 07, 2016
I don't think that's what he had in mind haha
Something that's been on my mind a lot lately has been this obsession with tier lists and kind of "defining" what the metagame is. While I do think it's necessary for people to back up their claims with evidence and I do think there's intense value in doing that research and figuring out what parts work well together, one of the charms of Beyblade has always been its subjective and experimental nature.
I was reading the Obelisk Odin thread that Kai-V posted in the customizations forum, and IMO it also solidified for me just how subjective play experience is and how the testing system fails to account for that. Furthermore, it takes way more than twenty rounds to reach anything approaching statistical significance, and I can't help but think that we are sometimes fooling ourselves with the confidence we have in this "proof."
Pandora's box can't be closed, of course, but I do think there is some value in keeping things more vague and nebulous that's probably been lost.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Apr. 07, 2016
It might be just that less people can be trusted at 'word value' than you think hah? It at least helps when someone is ready to sit down and conduct tests officially and has the confidence of being able to do it all over again on camera if someone challenges it. Just Zoroaste's own experience of coming up with a win percentage that was less than what he had originally claimed solidifies, for me, how doing tests in an 'official' setting is required rather than just vaguely sharing experience.
Of course the biggest problem is single-player testing though hah.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 07, 2016
Nah, that's not really what I mean. It's less about reaching a consensus and more about leaving room for subjectivity, for individuals to come to their own conclusions. It's clear that certain types of Bey work better for certain types of players, due to whatever nearly-infinite amount of variables that we cannot measure nor convey on a message board.
Basically, do we need to decide, as a community, that X part is better than Y part? That Z combination belongs on a "tier list"? Tier lists were something that came way after I left and IMO are part of the reason that the game has become a bit less interesting. But if the tier lists are helpful and rooted in data, then it's hard to say they're a bad thing, too. It's just organizing what people are already discovering.
I'm not trying to say that one approach is better than the other, but that each has their own merits, and something has been lost to this culture of quantification.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Thunder Dome - Apr. 07, 2016
(Apr. 07, 2016 2:33 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Nah, that's not really what I mean. It's less about reaching a consensus and more about leaving room for subjectivity, for individuals to come to their own conclusions. It's clear that certain types of Bey work better for certain types of players, due to whatever nearly-infinite amount of variables that we cannot measure nor convey on a message board.The idea of the tier list is something that definitely needs to be worked on. A lot of times in past format tier lists I found my self questioning why certain things were on there, due to it being a "worse" combination than another on the list.
Basically, do we need to decide, as a community, that X part is better than Y part? That Z combination belongs on a "tier list"? Tier lists were something that came way after I left and IMO are part of the reason that the game has become a bit less interesting. But if the tier lists are helpful and rooted in data, then it's hard to say they're a bad thing, too. It's just organizing what people are already discovering.
I'm not trying to say that one approach is better than the other, but that each has their own merits, and something has been lost to this culture of quantification.
A pretty efficient way to continue the tier list might be to base it solely off of tournament results, while this might offend those who can't attend tournaments it seems to be a good method. We have spreadsheets (honestly not sure where they are on the forum or how up to date they are) that show every winning combo ever for all the formats. We can see the real "top tier" by looking at these lists. Who cares what's the best defense if it's not winning events? Who cares if this attack type is phenomenal in testings but no one is using it in events? Honestly the current tier lists for formats appear to be a "suggestion" list. The tier list should be solely off the major reason people check out this forum, tournaments. Tournaments show a pretty accurate representation of the meta. Not only that but literally every other competitive game in existence bases their "tier lists" based on how it performs in tournaments. I'm actually on a Yugioh forum that has a tier list thread where the decks get ranked due to how they play out in events. Now they also incorporate the size of events in the matter, like if a deck won a regional it would be counted less than if it won something like nationals, which in beyblades case would be like a average tournament to Anime North's events. We don't have to do all that if people didn't want to (although it makes since), but I do indeed want something to change about how we make our "tier lists".
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 07, 2016
I think that's an interesting approach, don't really disagree with any of the points you raised, either.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Ultra - Apr. 07, 2016
(Apr. 07, 2016 2:33 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Nah, that's not really what I mean. It's less about reaching a consensus and more about leaving room for subjectivity, for individuals to come to their own conclusions. It's clear that certain types of Bey work better for certain types of players, due to whatever nearly-infinite amount of variables that we cannot measure nor convey on a message board.
Basically, do we need to decide, as a community, that X part is better than Y part? That Z combination belongs on a "tier list"? Tier lists were something that came way after I left and IMO are part of the reason that the game has become a bit less interesting. But if the tier lists are helpful and rooted in data, then it's hard to say they're a bad thing, too. It's just organizing what people are already discovering.
I'm not trying to say that one approach is better than the other, but that each has their own merits, and something has been lost to this culture of quantification.
Tbh this is one of the things I dislike about beywiki. Wolborg's SG is definitely outclassed by nearly all other bearing cores for stamina but in the article it doesn't outright come and say it even though it is true. Beywiki articles don't really compare the performance of parts which just means people ask questions about it in the threads.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 07, 2016
Well, if it's truly outclassed by all other bearing cores, why doesn't it say so? The Beywiki is a living document; there's nothing stopping anyone from updating it to reflect what's true.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Apr. 07, 2016
Eh, I do not know about plastics articles, but I definitely try to do it in all articles I write... In any case, you know you can edit Beywiki articles if you want.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - SoSteve - Apr. 07, 2016
Who has the most post I wonder?
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Thunder Dome - Apr. 07, 2016
You can actually see the most posts by looking at the member list.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - FIREFIRE CPB - Apr. 08, 2016
Bey Brad. Is it possible for us to some how get in contact with that Chinese beyblade community? http://beyblade.sclub.com.tw/index.php
Edit:- sorry if i shouldn't post that
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Thunder Dome - Apr. 09, 2016
So I'm guessing the Burst Rankings will be implemented soon seeing as the font size of the rankings under our profiles got smaller?
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Stormscorpio1 - Apr. 09, 2016
Yeah I noticed that aswell, so do we have a date we can expect them?
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 09, 2016
(Apr. 09, 2016 8:33 PM)Top Doge Wrote: Yeah I noticed that aswell, so do we have a date we can expect them?
Please stay tuned.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Manicben - Apr. 09, 2016
Regarding that, @[Balance Blader] found the current Burst rankings, but it only has Londoners on it from the first Burst tournament we had after BOTS. O.o
Interesting eh?
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 09, 2016
(Apr. 09, 2016 11:17 PM)Manicben Wrote: Regarding that, @[Balance Blader] found the current Burst rankings, but it only has Londoners on it from the first Burst tournament we had after BOTS. O.o
Interesting eh?
Way to spoil the surprise. We're testing the system out!
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Manicben - Apr. 10, 2016
(Apr. 09, 2016 11:20 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:(Apr. 09, 2016 11:17 PM)Manicben Wrote: Regarding that, @[Balance Blader] found the current Burst rankings, but it only has Londoners on it from the first Burst tournament we had after BOTS. O.o
Interesting eh?
Way to spoil the surprise. We're testing the system out!
...
Dammit. Sorry about that. Well, uh... Announcement will be on its way I guess?
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - ~Mana~ - Apr. 10, 2016
Kinda glad I kept quiet when I found it myself, haha.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Manicben - Apr. 10, 2016
I mean, we were getting PMs about it so...
@Committee, I apologise for leaking info.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Apr. 10, 2016
Hahah, I was wondering if it really just conveniently omitted to send private message notifications unlike the regular Beypoint System. It would have been too perfect.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 10, 2016
(Apr. 10, 2016 4:20 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Hahah, I was wondering if it really just conveniently omitted to send private message notifications unlike the regular Beypoint System. It would have been too perfect.
Haha, oops~
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Ultra - Apr. 11, 2016
Is it like a busy time in the school year? Forum seems kinda dead lately especially on weekends which is when you'd expect there to be activity and posts.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Bey Brad - Apr. 11, 2016
(Apr. 11, 2016 9:06 PM)Ultra Wrote: Is it like a busy time in the school year? Forum seems kinda dead lately especially on weekends which is when you'd expect there to be activity and posts.
That could be part of it, but honestly, a lot of members stopped visiting the site as often once they started talking in chat rooms off the site. So there is probably lots of discussion happening, but since it happens privately, most of the community won't get the chance to join in, nor will that information be archived in the future.
RE: WBO Random Thoughts - Kai-V - Apr. 11, 2016
For those of us in university, it really is the end of semester though. But yes, there was a clear cutoff when the private chatrooms got created.