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+---- Thread: Lightning L. Drago Test (/Thread-Lightning-L-Drago-Test)
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Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 13, 2009
So my L.L.Drago came in today, so I decided to test it. I did 4 tests, sets of 15 each. One set of tests with 100 track in each mode, and one set of tests with 90 track in each mode. All tests were against MFLibraC145WB, in HMS Tornado Balance, Libra shot first.
L.L.Drago 100RF (Multi-hit) vs. MFLibraC145WB
Win Percentage: 40% (6/15)
What I noticed is that Multi-hit mode (MHM) had decent smash, but it didn't always give Libra that decisive hit to knock it out of the Stadium. Libra had to be closer to the edge to knock it out more consistently in MHM than you would need it to be if you were using Storm or Quetz. I've noticed Storm and Quetz can knockout Libra when it's more towards the middle more consistently than MHM. However, MHM did live up to its name. It was pretty relentless on Libra, and would probably be more worthwhile against lighter Stamina types, but Libra was able to hold it's own pretty easily.
L.L.Drago 100RF (Upper) vs. MFLibraC145WB
Win Percentage: 60% (9/15)
This was pretty surprising actually, especially directly following MHM. From what I gathered about Upper Mode (UM) is that Metal + Plastic making contact on Libra as opposed to just Metal (or atleast less Plastic) like in MHM seemed pretty effective. We know that Plastic does a very nice job of absorbing hits from Metal, but here it seems it provided some knock back potential, at least when combined with the Metal Wheel underneath. The higher 100 track also meant that it didn't make a lot (nearly none) of contact with C145, which was an important factor. Even though Upper attack is more effective when both Blades spin the same direction, it did have some effect here as well. The point of contact between the upper part of L.L.Drago and Libra was in that small space between Libra's Wheel and C145. With a solid enough hit, it could knock it off balance and knock it out of the Stadium.
L.L.Drago 90RF (Multi-hit) vs. MFLibraC145WB
Win Percentage: 33% (5/15)
The lower 90 track made L.L.Drago make more contact with the hit absorbing C145. Combine that with the fact MHM doesn't provide as good a hit as Storm or Quetz on this track, and you got yourself a fairly winning, mostly losing combination. Another noticeable thing in this set was MHM's recoil element. There were 2 draws in this set where Drago hit Libra and they both took off flying out of the stadium. There were also exchanges where they hit with high recoil, but they both managed to stay in and Libra would win due to Drago being exhausted.
L.L.Drago 90RF (Upper) vs. MFLibraC145WB
Win Percentage: 46% (7/15)
Upper Mode's upper potential here was pretty negligible this time about due to the lower track. L.L.Drago's Upper slopes aren't as pronounced as Quetz, so it isn't as effective as on the 100 track because it constantly comes in contact with C145. One thing I did notice was its ability to tilt Libra off balance. The minor upper hitting the wings on C145 did make Libra tilt and have C145 scrap the stadium, but not enough to kill enough spin for Libra to spin out.
Conclusion
L.L.Drago is as nice as speculated, at least it was for me. Upper Mode, based on my testing, is more effective than Multi-hit Mode, at least against Defensive types. I've yet to test this against Stamina types (I'll get to it later on tonight) though, however, things looks promising. All in all, I definitely feel Lightning L. Drago is a tier 1 Attack Wheel. And it's so pretty.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Bae Master - Aug. 13, 2009
fiou, i wasnt so wrong.
upper is better than multi hit no matter what=)
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 13, 2009
I wouldn't say it's better no matter what, but against Libra it was definitely better. Like I said in the conclusion, I'm going to do this same test against VirgoDF145D later on tonight to see how each mode on each track compares.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Ozzy - Aug. 13, 2009
I bet the results would be much better and a whole lot different( a larger win rate for L.Drago) in the MFB attack stadium. Tornado Balance is just far too large for most attackers to do well in. For such a large stadium, L.Drago did well IMO.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Bae Master - Aug. 13, 2009
upper mode was better against attack and against defense... it should be against stamina=)
anyways im happy u got about the same conclusion than me. *fiou
do the testing against stamina, im 2 lazy to do it=)
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 13, 2009
(Aug. 13, 2009 9:17 PM)Ozzy Wrote: I bet the results would be much better and a whole lot different( a larger win rate for L.Drago) in the MFB attack stadium. Tornado Balance is just far too large for most attackers to do well in. For such a large stadium, L.Drago did well IMO.
From what I hear, the Tornado Balance Stadium isn't that much bigger. Nevertheless, it did go well.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Ozzy - Aug. 13, 2009
Yeah it's actually a good amount larger, it isnt a HUGE amount but its enough to change results and the slopes are deeper.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 13, 2009
With deeper slopes as well the Point of Contact between both combo's will be different for sure as well. Which could result in performance differences between 90 and 100 heights too, and likely will. I'm glad someone else bothers with heights like I do
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 13, 2009
I hope that doing this in HMS Tornado Balance doesn't invalidate my test. If anything it gives us an idea of what it is capable of. Should I still continue on and do the Stamina test?
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Ozzy - Aug. 13, 2009
I think you should. This will give us a round about idea of how it performs and then when someone does it in the MFB attack we can see how much of a difference it shows.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 14, 2009
A bit of input on the testing numbers if I could. I personally dislike odd numbered rounds for testing. By doing so you "force" a sort of superior aspect to things, where in reality, the performance could actually be 50/50. By doing it 15 rounds there can be no middle ground, just one being superior to another, potentially only through that single "tie-breaking" match up. At times I do 21 rounds, but that is mostly to simulate an actual battle, and when I do multiple rounds of 21.
EDIT: wow, I put even instead of odd, my bad, not sure where my brain went.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Serotonin - Aug. 14, 2009
I'm not sure what you mean by "forcing superiority" on a particular combo?
If anything, isn't that the by-product of an odd numbered set of testing?
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 14, 2009
Yea, that's why I went with 15. It's a nice solid number and, like you said, doesn't provide a middle ground. Just a definitive answer to which is better. I plan to do the same number of rounds for the Virgo test.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 14, 2009
Well, the problem is when you have two equal blades, you basically give one a mark in superiority when it could be luck. For instance both get 7 wins 1 and 1 consecutively. You get the 15th in there, one HAS to be superior by that test when it might actually not be. Further there isn't multiple tests of the same rounds, circumstances, so you have that one mark to go off of when the next 15 rounds could very well be 8 wins for the previously inferior combo.
An unfortunate bi-product of testing is repetitiveness and a bit of a necessity for consistency and follow-through. 50% is a very possible reality, but if a single match of 15 rounds is the "final product" that 50/50 aspect can't happen because you didn't allow it to. In the event of such a case I tend to up my rounds higher in an even number because if one actually is superior, it will eventually get to a more noticeable differential.
The only reason I brought this all up was because your 7/15 testing on L.L Drago bugs me a bit, but that's more personal reasons than anything. When I see 46% on an attack combo it's a big difference between Storm and Quetz's 50-55% vs the leading defense combo, in these tests, it's potentially a matter or just 1 match. Considering the close values we have with attack types currently, I'm more critical I suppose.
Plus it was more of a suggestion than anything, pay no mind on it if you don't feel it necessary yourself ^^;
EDIT: Updated the relevant post with what I actually meant. Majorly retarded typo >> Meant to put in Odd instead of Even
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 14, 2009
Would you suppose I go up to 20 matches?
And I think you had a typo in your earlier post.
Quote:I personally dislike even numbered rounds for testing
Do you mean odd numbered matches?
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Serotonin - Aug. 14, 2009
(Aug. 14, 2009 12:39 AM)Hiro Ayami Wrote: Well, the problem is when you have two equal blades, you basically give one a mark in superiority when it could be luck. For instance both get 7 wins 1 and 1 consecutively. You get the 15th in there, one HAS to be superior by that test when it might actually not be. Further there isn't multiple tests of the same rounds, circumstances, so you have that one mark to go off of when the next 15 rounds could very well be 8 wins for the previously inferior combo.
By that very token, which is very valid point, is 15 rounds, or even 21 rounds, not exactly the same? It's 14 + 1, or 20 + 1.
As an advocate of the odd numbered match ups, I also found it strange you said it caused the very "forcing of superiority" onto the results.
I'm very confused, did you originally mean to say you dislike "odd numbered rounds"?
Edit : While sitting here trying to work out what was happening Hiro edited, haha.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 14, 2009
haha, yeah I was actually an advocate for even numbered rounds >> edited ^^;
Left little edited notes too. My bad, my bad.
Also, I up the number of rounds as well as number of matches/sets. So I could very well do 5 sets of 21 rounds, part of my personal and recent obsession with testing, I have a lot of Storm Pegasis Metal Wheels I should paint and re-sell just to recoup some costs >>
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 14, 2009
No problem. I can do 20 matches for the Virgo tests, it's not much of a problem. I thought 15 wouldn't be much of a problem, but I can increase it.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 14, 2009
Haha, well its truthfully up to you, it might become necessary if the numbers get close, but even with the defense results, I can see LL Drago dominating in it's superior match up. What I would be interested in seeing is a 20 round match-up (Multiple! :o) with LL Drago (Upper) 100RF and LL Drago (Upper) 90RF. The 90RF is the most crucial one as it really was the one that spurred my ruined train of thought ^^;
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 14, 2009
Haha, I can't do that as I only have 1 L.L.Drago. Sounds like something Beynval will have to do. Did you have certain expectations for L.L.Drago when it came to 100 and 90?
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Hiro Ayami - Aug. 14, 2009
Not so much, and when I mean multiple I meant multiple sets of 21 rounds for LL Drago 90RF just to be sure.
I expected it to be a solid attacker, but I wasn't sure if it was on the same level as Storm Pegasis or possibly better than Quetz. I felt the fact that it was in a different direction would detract from it as well, so it's nice to know it hasn't actually.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Tempestas007 - Aug. 14, 2009
So I did the Virgo testing. 20 shots, Virgo shot first, each mode on each track. My knee (from kneeling), my thumb (from shooting) and my RF are all in pain right now, but I got it done.
L.L.Drago 100RF (Upper Mode) vs. VirgoDF145D
Win Percentage: 50%
Yea, I was surprised too. The most noticeable about this result as opposed to the result from the Libra test is that the Upper Attack of L.L.Drago was pretty much null thanks to Virgo being a bit shorter than Libra. Drago couldn't effectively get under Virgo and deliver as decisive a blow as it did against Libra. The Metal + Plastic thing I said against Libra doesn't hold much water. It's mainly the fact the upper part got underneath Libra that it was so effective against it, not so much against Virgo.
L.L.Drago 100RF (Multi-hit) vs. VirgoDF145D
Win Percentage: 60% (12/20)
Smash, smash, and more smash. MHM did a good job of delivering a good smash attack on Virgo, mainly because of it's low weight. Being able to hit it out of the stadium from the middle of the stadium is a big plus.
L.L.Drago 90RF (Upper) vs. VirgoDF145D
Win Percentage: 70% (14/20)
Pretty much the reverse of the 100 track test. The track difference was so huge, and its ability to utilize a little bit of Upper attack on Virgo was a testament to that. I don't think much else needs to be said here.
L.L.Drago 90RF (Multi-hit) vs. VirgoDF145D
Win Percentage: 65% (13/20)
The lower track allowed Drago to deliver a little bit of a greater Smash, but it only got 1 more win than it's 100 track counterpart. The recoil element was present here as well, but not so much so as it was in the Libra test. I guess that is due to Virgo's lower weight, which leads to a lower counter force on Drago.
Conclusion
The extra 5 launches definitely helped results be less skewed, and provided better results. If you see the individual breakdown of battles, you'd now what I mean. Even though it gave me greater stress on my RF and a minor blister on my thumb....the things I do haha...I was happy to do it for the community.
Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with these results, and I think it shows L.L.Drago 90/100 RF is a solid choice. And this should provide a nice blueprint for when someone is able to test this in the Attack Stadium. I'll retest myself once I get an Attack stadium in the not too distant future, and when I get more RF as mine is virtually done (
).I hope you find these results useful.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - StormDriger - Aug. 14, 2009
I did the right choice of picking L L Drago
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - theflightyellz - Aug. 14, 2009
The stadium choice makes these results pretty inconclusive.
It does give us a rough idea of Lightnings capability, but as has been said before.
The stadium is too large, and doesn't really aid attack types at all.
RE: Lightning L. Drago Test - Serotonin - Aug. 14, 2009
Actually, I'm quite surprised it's not beating Virgo DF145D far more consistently ...
Unless your RF has been worn pretty dramatically. :]
Edit : D'oh, I keep forgetting they're in Tornado Balance. ;[