MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion - Printable Version +- World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. (https://worldbeyblade.org) +-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion) +--- Forum: Beyblade Customizations (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Customizations) +---- Forum: Metal Fight Customizations (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Metal-Fight-Customizations) +---- Thread: MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion (/Thread-MFB-Standard-Competitive-Customs-List-and-Public-Discussion) |
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Sep. 24, 2012 There's not enough testing of Killerken Killerken. We only have Zionson's tests to go on and they are limited in scope. An attacker not beating many defenders isn't unusual and in this case it's largely a matter of Defense changing to stand up to Flash, as they now rely on tips with lower stamina than before. Killerken Dragooon is far from a pure attack type, and while it could be added, classification would be a concern, and it's definitely not enough to warrant removing Flash, for example. SA165 needs more formal defense testing before it can be added, and while the small amount of testing we have thus far indicates it could, its survival in its more unwieldy mode, the mode in which it slightly outperformed BD145, could be a concern. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ya - Sep. 24, 2012 Keep Flash then. But remember its usage will start to decline quickly very soon... B:D niche in certain combo's are notable but not top tier worthy... I would add MF-H MLD TR145 EWD and MF-H GP TR145 EWD in spin equalizers. As for Killerken Dragooon, it performs best as an attacker rather than a spin equalizer, defender, or balance type. If there was an honorable mention, then Kudos to: MSF-H/MSF Saramanda Saramanda B:D. Killerken Killerken needs to be tested much more. Saramanda Saramanda should also be added into defense. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Dark_Mousy - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: Keep Flash then. But remember its usage will start to decline quickly very soon...Add Metal Flat problem solved. MF H Flash Orion W145 Mf say sup (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: B niche in certain combo's are notable but not top tier worthy...This has been said already (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: I would add MF-H MLD TR145 EWD and MF-H GP TR145 EWD in spin equalizers.Been added under the Stamina section of the current tier list in the advanced forum As for Killerken Dragooon, it performs best as an attacker rather than a spin equalizer, defender, or balance type. (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: If there was an honorable mention, then Kudos to: MSF-H/MSF Saramanda Saramanda B.Duo BD does it better then Saramanda Saramanda. Refer to MSF H Revizer Dragoooon SA165 EWD Testing thread (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: Killerken Killerken needs to be tested much more.This has already been said several times. Kei is going to try and get some test done. (Sep. 24, 2012 11:17 AM)Ya Wrote: Saramanda Saramanda should also be added into defense.To this Kei Wrote:Considered:I like Saramanda Saramanda. But I prefer Revizer Revizer. Heck even Revizer/Dragooon Dragooon has some defense capabilities from the tests ive done. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - gameboysuperman - Sep. 24, 2012 shoudnt scythe be used for stamina purposes? cuz i still think due to its free- spinning PC frame its able to take a lot of hits without loosing much stamina? RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Dark_Mousy - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 5:13 PM)gameboysuperman Wrote: shoudnt scythe be used for stamina purposes? cuz i still think due to its free- spinning PC frame its able to take a lot of hits without loosing much stamina? Scythe was used for stamina for a short while. But Phantom & Duo outclass it now. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - bj3rdd - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 12:24 AM)GaHooleone Wrote:(Sep. 24, 2012 12:17 AM)Ultra Wrote: Same I feel it is balance considering its weird ability to outspin things despite being on a rubber attack bottom. Also I feel it should be noted however that the which rubber attack bottom is used on it probably makes little to no difference. It cost 35 dollars on amazon heres the link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008B43FIQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&smid=A3YS6Z1KFLHAA RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ya - Sep. 24, 2012 Flash W145 MF will be outspun by standard left spin defense combos such as MF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF. Duo B:D gets an honorable mention as well but is not top-tier worthy. Spin-Equalizers should not be on the same section as Stamina Types. 160 needs to be added for stamina. Cosmic needs to be added for attack. Hasbro Jade needs to be added for attack also. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - King of Misfits - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Flash W145 MF will be outspun by standard left spin defense combos such as MF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF. I know I'm not a Beyblade expert but... I think Jade needs waaay more testing, Cosmic is iffy, VariAres, Blitz, and Flash outclass it. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Dark_Mousy - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Flash W145 MF will be outspun by standard left spin defense combos such as MF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF.Maybe, its never been tested IIRC. But Im pretty sure a decent attack player can ko that. And RDF does have bad stamina. This does require more testing Ill admit. (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Duo B gets an honorable mention as well but is not top-tier worthy.There is no honorable section on the tier list. (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Spin-Equalizers should not be on the same section as Stamina Types.I would agree with this. I can see why Kei put them in stamina. Spin Stealers are sort of a stamina type. Its more of a subsection of stamina. But I would feel comfortable with either them staying under stamina or add a spin stealer/Equalization section (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: 160 needs to be added for stamina.More testing needs to be done. But 160 was added to Duo (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Cosmic needs to be added for attack.Why? Its okay for Hasbro. But it hasn't impacted the metagame at all. Has it topped ANYWHERE? No. Blitz>Cosmic (Sep. 24, 2012 5:56 PM)Ya Wrote: Hasbro Jade needs to be added for attack also. Like I said about cosmic. Its okay for Hasbro. BUT Blitz is better. Why would we take Blitz off and add something worse? Wouldn't make sense. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ya - Sep. 24, 2012 Dark Mousy, Cosmic can KO Duo BD145 CS. It can K.O. Duo BD145 CS much more consistently when compared to BOTH VariAres and Blitz. Jade is better than Cosmic for attack. However, neither Cosmic or Jade should be added in attack, so you are right in that aspect. Edit: I was wrong. Jade is about the same as Cosmic in Attack. Neither should go on the list. They both sadly lack the raw powerful smash attack. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Dark_Mousy - Sep. 24, 2012 (Sep. 24, 2012 9:42 PM)Ya Wrote: Dark Mousy, Cosmic can KO Duo BD145 CS. It can K.O. Duo BD145 CS much more consistently when compared to BOTH VariAres and Blitz. Of course i was right because i looked at the test. If your going to post inthis particular thread please make sure you have test to back up what you say. No test=No post RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Sep. 25, 2012 No one should humor ya's posts with responses, btw. Just trust me on this. EDIT: See? RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - slyx - Sep. 25, 2012 time to give my 2c worth: seeing as most metas (referencing the Winning Combinations thread), are being dominated by track heights of 145 and higher, i personally think that the lowest track for flash combos should be 120 on CH120 to make good contact against 145 heights. i might do some tests later with MF-H Flash Escolpio 105 RF later against MF-H Death aquario BD145/SA165 (attack mode) RDF to verify this. however seeing as the most popular tracks for flash now are CH120, S130, and GB/H/W145, i see no reason for 105 to remain on the list i also echo Ultra's opinion that MF-H Gravity Perseus (STAM) BD145 RDF is rather underrated. i personally love how this combo easily draws with non-Death based stamina customs, and if not, beats them by a few rotations. i know that currently the LDD/LDG is more popular, but i feel that the dual spin capabilities of Gravity gives it an edge in terms of versatility. with dragooon becoming more available and thus more popular, having a left-spin locked spin stealer can be detrimental. that said, no one can say for sure that dragooon cannot KO gravity on flat tips (it probably can with relative ease, i would imagine). yet even in early testing this gravity combo never held it's ground against attack combos anyway, so it's not like it's role has changed significantly in any way. when i get my LDD soon i will test GP v. LDD with GP in right spin to see which has the edge over the other. i also believe that we need to test GP BD145 RDF in right spin as a counter to dragooon combos, giving it a large and unique enough niche has a dual spin spin stealer which also counters what seems to be a new metagame defining chrome wheel on the topic of dragooon, if dragooon sees enough use in the future death may have a place in anti-meta after all, but conclusions at this stage would be premature. that's all for now! i hope i haven't embarrassed myself too much with my relative inexperience xP RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Sep. 25, 2012 Flash managed good results on 105RF against BD145, however with the advent of E230 and SA165 and an overall taller meta thanks to Zero G, it should be scrutinised again, for sure, and SA165RDF/CS tests would be good - though SA165's attack mode itself needs some more testing, personally I want to see whether its survival stacks up against BD145 and E230 as the only tests I've seen of it against attack (and this was with EDS vs Flash MF) had it only get 5% higher than BD145. Also given it's shape, I'd like to see a battery of height matchup tests done against it with an attacker that could feasibly outspin it to see if the shape in attack mode is exploitable (eg whether it could be forced to scrape if something hits between the wheel and track). MF-H Gravity Perseus (STA) BD145RDF does deserve consideration (I think the rest of us decided it wasn't worth it after Yamislayer and Galaxy had their argument over it), and I think I echo you when I say I think the deciding factors are whether it can do well against any of the best/most popular Dragooon combos (both the more aggressive and the more stamina oriented onses) and whether (if it doesn't by doing that) it can differentiate itself from them - if it can, then I think it probably deserves a spot (especially as death stamina is pretty rare). RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - slyx - Sep. 25, 2012 i sat down for a while today to do some serious testing, here are the results: Standard procedure Beylauncer LR (oiled gears) Death 60-70% shot in the middle Flash banked at 100% (necessary to get the aggressive movement out of my rather worn RF) MF-H Flash Escolpio 105RF v. MF-H Death Aquario SA165 (attack mode) RDF Spoiler (Click to View) Flash 10 wins (2 OS, 8 KO) Death 10 wins (8 OS, 2 KO) what i noticed in this test is that death was easily knocked over, causing the plastic ring on RDF to scrape, leading to some OS's by flash but also some KO's by death, which tbh were really fun to watch xD i refuse to do tests for SA165 in normal mode with death because i have already almost broken my MF-H and the thread in my SA165 from previous attempts to do so, and do not wish to aggravate the situation. Benchmark: MF-H Flash Escolpio 105RF v. MF-H Death Aquario BD145 RDF Spoiler (Click to View) Flash: 8 wins (8 KO) Death: 12 wins (12 KO) i'm not sure if these tests are telling me that my flash is getting wayyy too worn... good thing i have a new one coming in the mail that just reached beijing today! hopefully it'll get dropped off along with all the other good stuff that i got, including a new R^2F to replace my rather worn RF (may have also resulted in the rather poor attack performances above)... probably gna have to redo these tests, which kinda makes me annoyed at myself cuz i put quite some time into them, only to realized i was foolish to do so with underperforming parts =( i hope you guys can use these tests some way or another! RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - KainHighwind - Sep. 25, 2012 slyx - Do you mind putting these tests in the SA165 Discussion Thread? That way we can discuss them without gumming up this thread. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Raigeko13 - Sep. 25, 2012 Finally, I'm at a computer to reply to this... First off Ingulit, thank you SO much for creating the thread. Maybe we can get some actual discussion of the metagame discussed outside of the Advanced Forum, and somewhere like Beyblade Random Thoughts, where posts like the ones here, are usually lost by (surprise! Random Thoughts!). To start it off, I'll just go with a few things off the top of my head: Attack: Everything here seems fine to me. I'd like to see H145 added to Vari, though. Given it does imbalance Vari, but you can't deny that it only adds to its offensive power. R145 >> H145 though, so yeah. Just a personal opinion. Defense: I'd like to see a side note or something mentioning that if you can do a Synchrome with any two wheels, it can be used for defense (pure weight based defense) but certain combinations like Revizer Revizer or Saramanda Saramanda should be used first if available. 160. It's essentially a shorter 230, and a bit narrower. Might be worth looking into. SA165, should it be added? I don't own the part, nor have I kept up with the discussion very much, only skimming over results every now and then, but it looks like a defense powerhouse. And how does the Zero-G attack mode fare in defense as well? I'd vouch for RSF being removed. Given that it has good grip and better balance then RS, I still believe RS does most things RSF can do, but better. I also vouch for TH170 being removed. It's too light in an increasingly large weight based metagame, and I don't think that it will be useful much longer. It's still a great defense part, don't get me wrong - just not against things like Flash W145MF/R²F. Stamina: SA165 here too. It seems to be doing its job well on MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165EWD by adding LAD to it, even though it's in left spin. Does it do well on Phantom/Duo? What's with SWD on the list? IIRC, it was always inferior to WD/SD/D, but if that's true, should it belong there? I don't own one, so I can't say for sure. A couple more things I agree with you are removing AD145. While still great, and proving that to be so in tournaments, W145 >> AD145 any day of the week. Basalt? Yes. Yes. Also, yes. Great balance wheel, especially in MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF in particular. Dragooon should be added into a spin stealer section with other wheels, not sure which though. Aaaaaaannnnddddd that's about it! (sorry that there's a lot of questions in this post) RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - slyx - Sep. 25, 2012 Kain i think i'm going to redo these tests tmr or the day after once i get my new stock of parts, so i'll hold off posting the results in the SA165 thread until i see how a new flash and primed R^2F instead of a worn RF perform. BIG EDIT: so i was messing around with MF-H Gravity Perseus (STAM) BD145 RDF today while waiting for my new lot of beys to arrive. it could consistently OS stamina types above 145 heights and defense combos, no surprise there. but i noticed it had problems winning clearly against W145 based stamina combos and LTSCs, always getting draws and half rotation wins. not satisfied with the combo's performance, i tried banking GP in left spin to get a slightly aggressive movement to see if ko's were possible. while i was able to get the aggressive movement i wanted, all GP seemed to do was brush against the stamina combo, never really getting a clean KO hit. this was when i had my huge moment of epiphany, and switched GP to right spin and banking. the results were absolutely AMAZING. even with the stamina clear wheel, GP walked all over Death Cygnus W145 WD, Phantom Cancer W145 WD, and Phantom Cancer 85 WD in clean 10-0 shut outs (didn't do 20 because it was so clear that the stamina combos stood no chance) i think the reason for this is because the same-spin GP combo is actually smashing into the stamina combo instead of pushing it/letting itself be pushed around when it is in opposite spin. i don't have Duo, so if someone could test this combo against Duo Cygnus W145 WD (least recoil, and thus should be the hardest stamina combo to KO) that would be awesome. if my epiphany leads to a new niche for this GP combo to not only OS HTSCs, defense combos, BUT ALSO KO 145 based and LTSCs, i think that would be a major breakthrough in considering this combo for the top-tier list as well, given it's overwhelming versatility over anything that's not attack. GP still performs pitifully against attack, and that's not going to change unless it magically gets re-released at a 40+g weight xD i kid, i kid. on the launch: the launch is actually rather difficult to get right, especially so on my rather worn RDF. banking to steeply results in hilarious self KO's in less than 4 seconds, but straight shots don't garner enough movement and speed for a KO. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Sep. 26, 2012 Interesting. Sorry if I can't say much, but that is odd. I'll try it myself tomorrow if I remember, though I doubt I'll be well enough to do full tests. As for the SA165 tests, not much I can say, but I appreciate them greatly. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ingulit - Sep. 27, 2012 Okay, I finally got around to re-doing my top-tier list, and boy was it an update. I'll post a cleaned-up version first with a version with an explanation of every change afterward. I'll also be posting this both in here and in the advanced section since this is a lot to chew on and discuss. BE WARNED: THERE IS A MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT APPROACHING, PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK. PROPOSED TIER LIST
Quote: EXPLANATIONS
ATTACK Flash
**Changes/Comments:
VariAres
**Changes/Comments:
**Overall Attack Changes/Comments:
DEFENSE Duo
**Changes/Comments:
Reviser
**Changes/Comments:
**Overall Defense Changes/Comments:
ANTI-ATTACK Diablo
Basalt
**Overall Anti-Attack Changes/Comments:
STAMINA Phantom
**Changes/Comments:
Duo
**Changes/Comments:
**Overall Stamina Changes/Comments:
SPIN STEALERS Dragooon
**Changes/Comments:
Meteo L-Drago
**Changes/Comments:
**Overall Spin Stealer Changes/Comments:
BALANCE
**Overall Balance Changes/Comments
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Sep. 27, 2012 Yo: -Gravity not good enough for spin stealers? No Gravity BD145RDF? (it's featured a lot in the UK) -What about Reviser Reviser for anti attack? -I consider Phantom's recoil to be pretty major. In an age where there are Zero G combos where if they just touch it with any kind of force then it flies across the stadium I wouldn't consider that useful any more. Duo is better because of that IMO. Putting Duo on the list makes people assume that they're just as good when I don't think that's true. -Um lots of metagames favour 230 over TH170 (the UK for example) -B:D? As with 230 whether the experts think it is top tier or not it still comes out a lot in tournaments. Clearly personal preference and experience sometimes trump testing knowledge. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - One Direction - Sep. 27, 2012 ATTACK Metal Face/Metal Face-Heavy Flash Escolpio/ Orion/Pisces/lynx/CH120/125/130/W145/GB145/H145 RF/R2F/MF Metal Face/Metal Face-Heavy VariAres CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF Blitz removed as it cannot even handle death well. DEFENSE Metal Face-Heavy Duo Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Kerbecs BD145/E230 CS/RB/RDF/RF/RS Metal Face-Heavy Diablo Kerbecs/Unicorno II BD145/E230 CS/RB/RDF/RF/RS Metal-Stone-Face-Heavy Reviser Reviser BD145/E230 CS/RB/RDF/RS/RF Metal-Stone-Face-Heavy Saramanda Saramanda BD145/E230 CS/RB/RDF/RS/RF STAMINA Phantom Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Cygnus 85/AD145/BD145/TH170/230 D/EDS/EWD/SD/SWD/WD Duo Aquario/Bull/Cancer/Cygnus 85/AD145/BD145/TH170/230/160 D/EDS/EWD/SD/SWD/WD/PD BALANCE Metal Face-Heavy Duo Aquario/Cancer/Cygnus 230MB Metal Face-Heavy Gravity Perseus BD145RDF Metal Face-Heavy L-Drago Destroy/Guardian BD145RDF SPIN STEALERS Metal-Face-Heavy Meteo L-Drago CH120/TR145 EWD Metal-Face-Heavy Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ingulit - Sep. 27, 2012 (Sep. 27, 2012 7:43 AM)Ultra Wrote: Yo: I considered Gravity, but Dragooon is kind of really stealing its thunder. That said, I really like that Gravity custom a lot, and I'd love to see some more testing on it. Nobody uses Reviser Reviser for anti-attack, like, at all? I have to disagree, I very much think Phantom and Duo are both competitive stamina wheels despite Phantom's recoil. I would probably favor Duo personally, but I haven't seen enough testing to show it's THAT much better. Furthermore, I've never seen Zero-G customs that can "touch [Phantom] with any kind of force" to send it "flying" that aren't basically attack types, and stamina types shouldn't be used against those kinds of beys anyway. Why is it favored, exactly? Is it just because of availability or is there a concrete reason? B:D is terrible in the BB-10. If you want to talk about something that goes flying at a mere touch, you should talk about B:D. Not even the heaviest Synchrom with a MSF-H on B:D can withstand a stray sneeze in the stadium's direction. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Sep. 27, 2012 (Sep. 27, 2012 8:03 AM)Ingulit Wrote:(Sep. 27, 2012 7:43 AM)Ultra Wrote: Yo: Really? It should be tested then I think. Really? Even not on aggressive tips like WSF and RDF? I think it was due to personal testing showing different results to the testing by others and more availability. Fine but it's used continuously by people in many areas. Maybe that's just because of availability though. RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - slyx - Sep. 27, 2012 Ultra imo one of the main features of anti attack is using a heavy wheel with enough recoil, and reviser reviser just simply doesn't match up to diablo (i don't have basalt so i can't speak for that) in terms of being able to withstand flash and counter-KO it |