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+---- Thread: MFB: Standard :: Competitive Customs List and Public Discussion (/Thread-MFB-Standard-Competitive-Customs-List-and-Public-Discussion)
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - zeneo - Jun. 13, 2013
Yes, Raigeko13.
Sharven12 used to think that RDBD is top-tier in MFB, he saw NObody using it once in a BB-10, so he decided to use it against me during testing. He used to slow launch it.
That's what gave me the idea to use it. And for my expectations, it did well.
I had 13 matches in that tournament. I used RDBD in 12 of those games.
9 wins. 3 losses. That too with a screwed up LR
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Izhkoort - Jun. 13, 2013
(Jun. 13, 2013 4:00 PM)Raigeko13 Wrote: Ah, darn, forgot to mention the CF for Tornado Stalling. I don't like it because it's just a WF with a disk around it. Literally, they're the same sizes IIRC, and the disk can really screw up your plans. If you don't have a MF, lots of weight goes towards the outer part of the bey, and then that leads to scraping with CF... In a BB-10. I think that should be enough explanation in itself, haha.
There's really no reason to use CF over WF, though, and even then, WF isn't recommended.
That's why I said that could be only useful with LW160, I tested GCF and it has the same problem when scrapes, so yeah, is not a very reliable option
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Janstarblast - Jun. 13, 2013
(Jun. 13, 2013 4:00 PM)zeneo Wrote: Uwik, that tournament had stuff like Diablo, Flash, and Gryph-Gryph customs. RDBD didn't get KO that easily. Weak launch is the key. I lost in the finals due to that bad LR, or else, I would've killed everyone. I put forth things to be discussed. I'm running short on parts currently, hence, I couldn't provide any proof.
Janstarblast, experimenting is the key over here. If you keep on repeating what has been said before, then dude, things change over time.
Things change over time? Its been just a month.
Moreover, you were given all points to overrule your argument of TH170/230(any variant)MF doing anything spectacular in the meta-game.
Honestly, Indian tournaments have always been weird. Losing to a Basalt D125WD using a Revizer Dragooon B: D is saying something. There have been several such incidents. Hence, Indian tournament results hardly count when proving a combo's might.
Weak Launching is quite an impressive technique and does help counter various Attackers. So maybe, it might have worked. I still doubt B: D being able to do it though... :\
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - zeneo - Jun. 13, 2013
As Nemo, phantom_gt and Dayrider would give testimony, it was my BeyLauncher LR which caused problems in the finals.
Basalt D125 WD was able to get under RDBD and not allow for that desperate last second rotations. The WD gave that combo vital one to two rotations.
And yes, I've been able to use the 'Weak Launch' technique to good use, that too with a Bearing Drive.
I'm hoping that Nemo uploads the video/sends it to Kei so that you can see how it works.
Please be patient
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - $hinchan! - Jun. 13, 2013
yea his l/r had prob already nemo's l/r broked so there was no option fr launcher and basalt did ko it 1time
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - TimeOut - Jun. 13, 2013
If we are discussing spin-stealers here we need to talk about anti-spin stealers as well, namely death and duo
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - zeneo - Jun. 13, 2013
As far as I remember, no one had a Death or Duo.
Also, Duo and Death stamina set-ups can be defeated by hard launching(100% launch), and Bearing Drive does the work.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - TimeOut - Jun. 13, 2013
I'm not sure to what you are referring about no one having one and that is highly unlikely that just by "hard launching" they would be defeated considering that goes against the entire principle of a spin-stealer.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Izhkoort - Jun. 13, 2013
I used Killerken Dragooon B : D and couldn't beat my MF Death Kerbecs BD145RS/RDF (when I had time to test, now my B : D broke)
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 13, 2013
That's because Death is top tier and RDF is top tier for spin stealing (so it doesn't work in same spin). B:D is not magical and if you use something against it that's good it will be beaten.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Izhkoort - Jun. 13, 2013
sorry, misread a previous post and posted something that has nothing to do with it!
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Uwik - Jun. 13, 2013
This thread is now stickied, provided that suggestions are preceded by valid test results / proofs, instead of non sensical theories and random speculations.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ingulit - Jun. 14, 2013
(Jun. 13, 2013 8:31 PM)Uwik Wrote: This thread is now stickied, provided that suggestions are preceded by valid test results / proofs, instead of non sensical theories and random speculations.
Fantastic, hope this spurs some good discussion
I'll totally agree with "anti-spin-stealers" needing to be looked into, specifically Death. I was thinking it might be time to add low/mid height Death stamina customs back onto the stamina list (not 160+ since then it can't work its magic). This is absolutely not because it's go better stamina than Duo/Phantom/Genbull, far from it; it's strictly due to the massive shift toward left-spin in the meta and Death's weird ability to rarely lose a spin stealing battle. Heck, we might also consider putting BD145RDF onto the defense list again too for the same reason.
Again, I'm saying we should CONSIDER this; we should probably revive the Death discussion and do some mass testing against modern spin-stealers to make sure it works for everyone.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 14, 2013
You're right but you and everyone else has a major misunderstanding . Death is top tier for stamina in general but this translates best into spin stealing. Somewhere along the line Someone tested it wrong or something because I'm sure that it needs to tested again to a major degree like you said.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Jun. 14, 2013
(Jun. 14, 2013 7:41 AM)Ultra Wrote: You're right but you and everyone else has a major misunderstanding . Death is top tier for stamina in general but this translates best into spin stealing. Somewhere along the line Someone tested it wrong or something because I'm sure that it needs to tested again to a major degree like you said.
It's literally two posts above you:
(Jun. 13, 2013 8:31 PM)Uwik Wrote: This thread is now stickied, provided that suggestions are preceded by valid test results / proofs, instead of non sensical theories and random speculations.
As one of multiple people who tested death for straight stamina at one point or another, no, you're wrong, and you need to stop questioning others tests unless you actually have some of your own - just because you've decided you're now The BeyMind or whatever it is doesn't mean you can talk out your rear when there are tests that disagree with you - and it certainly doesn't mean people are going to listen - or let you do it without being called out for it. Even if you were somehow right and the multiple people who tested death in comparison to stuff that outclasses it were wrong, it still wouldn't be okay, so stop it.
The grinding effect it has helps to some effect and is probably a large part of the difference in spin stealing, but for same spin stamina it's nowhere near good enough. There was some discussion of its better defense making it safer than phantom, but then Duo came along and had better defense AND better stamina (which I also tested). If I recall the death tests I did are posted in the Duo topic.
Also, seeing as it's something I've actually tried, Reviser Dragooon B: D has a lot of trouble with round opponents on SA165EWD - for an extreme example, MF-M Basalt Kerbecs SA165EWD (Kerbecs oriented the same way as on MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170WF - and MF-M was necessary IIRC - a little extra stability I guess). This struck me as odd and the basalt result was with my particularly worn basalt which does a little better in these things, but Duo Cancer SA165EWD was also doing just fine - which struck me as odd, though I am not up to date at all so perhaps it isn't. If you insist on tests I'll do them tomorrow as I'm about to go out, but I've actually tried this stuff pretty extensively, in an actual stadium with the actual parts and actual launchers and so on.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 14, 2013
I've missed out an important detail. Deaths weight distribution is so amazing it only seems like it's only good as spin stealing. So what I said it very likely to be correct. Basically i'm speculating.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Jun. 14, 2013
(Jun. 14, 2013 11:14 AM)Ultra Wrote: I've missed out an important detail. Deaths weight distribution is so amazing it only seems like it's only good as spin stealing. So what I said it very likely to be correct. Basically i'm speculating.
Oh, so there's a post from a committee member saying don't speculate and you're speculating. I didn't realise the rules didn't apply to you, Ultra.
Death's weight distribution is at best only ever so slightly better than duo's (this can be observed quite easily visually - it's laid out similarly but a little wider at the base and a little more hollow in the centre) and it has more recoil - the recoil is not as much of an issue for spin stealing as it is for same-spin stamina, which is likely why it performs better as a spin stealer (this is generally taken as fact in all generations and very obvious in plastics). For same-spin stamina, however, this increased recoil makes it perform poorly compared to Duo, which straight up outclasses it (as shown by testing). Phantom has a good enough weight distribution to make up for its recoil (as shown by testing). Death does not (as shown by testing). Whether death is now viable as a straight stamina wheel because of the popularity of spin stealers is likely something that could be looked into, but that's nothing like what you said. So no, it's not "very likely to be correct", you're talking out your rear. Again.
^This is how you should formulate an argument. If there aren't tests to support it already, do them yourself, otherwise no, you don't know what you're talking about well enough to open your mouth, and you're breaking the thread's rules.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 14, 2013
I skim things when i'm busy so I actually didn't read Uwik's post. I wasn't simply ignoring him like you seem to think.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Raigeko13 - Jun. 14, 2013
Then before replying again in the near future, please read the entire discussion thoroughly, and make educated posts, not posts on impulses on such little information... I don't want to mini mod here, but damn bro.
Anyways, on the topic of Death. I can't recall did anyone else ever do any testing with Hasbro's Death? I don't believe so, and IIRC I tested it a bit, but I don't really remember what I got from the results, so I can't say anything on it form memory, but I recall that it had the potential of retaining the anti-spin stealing qualities, the original Death (which I do not own) supposedly has. Would anyone care for some tests to see if Hasbro Death is viable for anti-spin steal?
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Janstarblast - Jun. 14, 2013
For Anti-Spin-Steal combos we need to have Death in Defense mode right?
Doesn't Hasbro's permanent-Attack-mode (and considerably lighter) cause any hindrance?
Just asking.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - ShinobuXD - Jun. 14, 2013
I think Pony tested it, and I believe it did pretty good. Can't recall for sure, but there is a Hasbro Death discussion.
Honestly, I kinda find anti spin steal to be pointless. When I tested Killerken, Gargole, and Revizer on Dragooon SA165 EWD against Phantom W145 WD(not anti-spin steal by any means)only Revizer got a winning record. I think this means people might just be getting bad matchups against Dragooon(aka using CS, 230, D, SD, etc. vs Dragooon instead of WD, EWD, B
)My tests are around page 10 of this thread if anyone is interested.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 14, 2013
Can someone please test it again because I was only speculating rather than saying it it's definitely top tier?
Something like:
Duo Cancer SA165WD VS Death Cancer (yeah it's pretty clear why hasbro changed the name lol) SA165WD.
I can do it if I need to but i've got other things I plan on testing.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ingulit - Jun. 15, 2013
Why would you want to compare the two on a setup that's complete butkus lol
I think it's been well established by the long MFB testing history that Death is 100% totally and undeniably outclassed by Duo and Phantom for stamina. Redoing all those tests that prove otherwise would be pointless since the results will be the exact same as before, which is kind of the point of testing.
Note that I say that Death is "outclassed" and not "bad for Stamina"; Death can certainly pull its weight as a stamina wheel, but it wouldn't ever make it back onto the competitive list next to Duo and Phantom unless something unique is discovered with it.
That something--Death's strange ability to OS spin stealers--is the ONLY reason that Death would be considered for the competitive list again, and it's a shaky reason (though I'll admit I'm a proponent). It's not like the many, many tests that show that Duo and Phantom are better at straight stamina than Death have suddenly been revoked; rather, it does something the other two can't that isn't just spinning for a long time.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - Ultra - Jun. 15, 2013
That's my exact point. There's no magic to SA165 either. It's simply top tier with the best LAD of any track ever. I'm trying to do away with these misconceptions everyone (yes even the most knowledgable like you clearly thinks like this) has. If you could try not to argue with me when i'm simply speculating that would be great. I'm not saying that i'm 100% right. I'm saying someone should test Death ASAP.
RE: Public Competitive MFB Customs Discussion (BB-10) - th!nk - Jun. 15, 2013
(Jun. 15, 2013 1:24 AM)Ultra Wrote: That's my exact point. There's no magic to SA165 either. It's simply top tier with the best LAD of any track ever. I'm trying to do away with these misconceptions everyone (yes even the most knowledgable like you clearly thinks like this) has. If you could try not to argue with me when i'm simply speculating that would be great. I'm not saying that i'm 100% right. I'm saying someone should test Death ASAP.
Okay, Ultra, I'm going to provide you with a suggestion that may revolutionize the way you think more than T125CS is inevitably going to revolutionize the stamina type:
"Actually Try These Things Thoroughly Enough Before You Talk About Them And If You Can't Then Don't"
And if you're really up for a challenge then:
"Also Actually Formally Test Anything Possibly Controversial Before Posting About It And Include Results With Your Post About It And If You Can't Then Don't"