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+---- Thread: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) (/Thread-Challenge-Beat-All-RF-Variants-Also-MF-H-Basalt-Horogium-TR145R2F)
Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ingulit - Jul. 27, 2012
Challenge: Beat All RF Variants
This is yet another non-standard Customs thread, though I do have a custom that I've tested a lot that I'll be talking about as well.
As of late, Anti-Attackers seem to be becoming more popular, be them Diablo on RF or MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF. Even Kreis seems to have some potential as an anti-attacker!
In this thread, I want us to try to come up with a combo that will beat any custom that uses RF, R2F, or LRF as its tip (and preferably beats attackers on MF as well). Such combos include not only attack combos, but anti-attack as well. The goal is to create a custom tier-list worthy custom that will almost always win if the opponent picks an aggressive rubber tip (either via KO or OS). It's totally okay for the custom to include one of the Rubber Flat variants as long as it has test results backing it up showing that it will defeat other RF users.
___________________
Some of the most important customs to test against include:
Attack
MF-H Flash ____ 105/CH120/D125/S130/W145/GB145 RF/R2F
MF-H VariAres CH120/R145 RF/R2F/LRF
MF-H Blitz ____ 100/CH120 RF/R2F
Anti-Attack
MF-H Diablo ____ BD145 RF/R2F
MF-H Basalt ____ R145RF
While these are the main ones, the goal is to beat ANYTHING with a RF variant, so test whatever you can!
MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F
I have my own custom to toss out there for this challenge that I've been heavily testing the past couple of days that seems to be doing well so far. This custom is very similar to MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF, though it is rather different in practice.
This custom needs to have Horogium's hole lined up over the Spiral Staircase of Death, and TR145 needs to be aligned so that one of the rollers is directly underneath the Staircase (just like the R145 combo). What this does is intentionally makes the custom somewhat unbalanced, giving Basalt potent anti-attack ability.
While TR145 is lighter than R145, its stamina at the end of a battle is unmatched. Where R145 will stop spinning the second it tips over, TR145 will fall over and sort of "bounce" back up, giving the custom several more critical seconds of spin time.
R2F is used over RF because R2F's speed advantage makes up for the weight lost from using TR145 instead of a heavier track. Yes, R2F has worse stamina, though in practice that hasn't been as observable as the fact that you get a lot more KOs with R2F.
It's worth mentioning that I tried MF-H Diablo Kerbecs TR145(RF/R2F/LRF) and I got far worse results than this custom. Diablo has pitiful stamina, and never exhibited the "bouncing" that Basalt did (and thus Diablo was OSed by just about everything).
Here are my test results to back this custom up (note that I do not have any high-tier attacker other than Flash, and that I would love to see this put up against a left-spin VariAres):
Test Results
BB-10 Attack Stadium
Beylauncher LR with Suspension
Standard Procedure
Flash is always in Attack Mode
_______________________________
MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F vs. MF-H Flash Orion W145MF
Flash launched first on even matches, Basalt on odd
Spoiler (Click to View)
Basalt: 17 (15 KO, 2 OS)
Basalt Win %: 85%
In these tests Flash just always ended up outside the stadium. It would hit Basalt and go flying while Basalt just went on its merry way.
MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F vs. MF-H Flash Scorpio S130RF
Flash launched first on even matches, Basalt on odd
Spoiler (Click to View)
Basalt: 23 (6 KO, 17 OS)
Basalt Win %: 76.6%
In these battles Basalt withstood a beating long enough to OS Flash, just like any anti-attacker would.
MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F vs. MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145R2F
Diablo launched first on even matches, Basalt on odd
Spoiler (Click to View)
Basalt: 20 (7 KO, 13 OS)
Basalt Win %: 66.7%
I'm not a big fan of this custom only beating the most prominent Anti-Attacker only 2/3 of the time, but an advantage is an advantage. With only one exception TR145 gave the custom enough end-of-battle stamina to OS Diablo when neither got KOed, giving Basalt a clear upper hand.
MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F vs. MF-H Basalt Horogium R145RF
R145 launched first on even matches, TR145 on odd
Spoiler (Click to View)
TR145: 26 (4 KO, 22 OS)
Basalt Win %: 86.7%
Ah, the battle of the Basalt Anti-Attackers. With only a few exceptions at the end of testing (not sure what was different to be honest) TR145 gave the custom far more stamina than R145 to the point where this was a cakewalk for TR145 to OS the opponent.
So, what can you come up with? Be sure to include full, standard-procedure test results to back up any customs you want put to the test.
Beyond coming up with customs, it would also be incredibly helpful if other people could do their own testing of these customs to either back up or debunk any testing proposed in this thread. We're looking for customs that work for everybody here, so if you see one custom that doesn't work for you, post test results that say so! Any and all information is welcome!
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Angry Face - Jul. 27, 2012
[Image: challenge-accepted.png]
I've always had luck beating Flash with left-spin Defense, but I've never tried it against Anti-Attack.
MSF-H Dragooon/Revizer Dragooon SA165RDF could possibly work well in withstanding and out-spinning left and right-spin Attackers, and Anti-Attackers. It'd be high enough to not get destabilized by Force Smashers, yet still be able to take hits from below without being at 145-height. Weak-launching against right-spinners would soften blows, and a full force launch against left would be the equivalent to Revizer Revizer against VariAres in Right. The tip could vary, but I'm definitely interested in trying this out now!
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - zionson - Jul. 27, 2012
Ooh! Just the challenge I want. I hate that I don't have TR145, but I think I can manage to do some good tests tomorrow night. Just need to get some RL stuff out of the way ...
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Cake - Jul. 27, 2012
@ ლ(ಠ益ಠლ):
I have high hopes for lefty Defense, too. It's a shame I don't have Dragoon or Revizer, though. GuardianRevizer (my brother) plans to get Dark Knight Dragoon, though. Maybe we can combine our parts.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - MyTestsAreLies - Jul. 28, 2012
Ingulit: I accept your challenge. It seems quite interesting and I already have a combo in my mind that I would like to be tested (since I don't own all the parts.)
The combo is: MF-L Duo Cygnus BD145 RF (Stamina Mode)
I theorize that since Duo has already great defense (thanks to Duo, BD145, and RF) and has enough stamina to OS attackers (thanks to MF-L, Duo, and Cygnus), this definitely deserves to be tested as I think this combo can
possibly stop all RF Variants.
*I'm not sure however if this combo can consitently OS MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145 RDF...
Note: As I've stated before, I do not have all the parts required to make this combo and am only hypothesizing.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Sniper - Jul. 28, 2012
Anything defense wheel with E230. MB/RS could beat them
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - MyTestsAreLies - Jul. 28, 2012
(Jul. 28, 2012 4:00 AM)Sniperâ„¢ Wrote: Anything defense wheel with E230. MB/RS could beat them
What about L Drago Destroy and L Drago Guardian? I mean, they can spin eualize enough to either draw or win against certain E230 RS/MB opponents.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Galaxy - Jul. 28, 2012
Sorry for the little OT.
Which kind of launch did you use to have a 23-7 for Basalt against Flash? It's never happened in my whole life, so I'm quite curious about your technique!
Also, in our MG, Phantom BD145 RF defeats both Flash S130\GB145 RF and Diablo BD145 RF without any kind of problem.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ga' - Jul. 28, 2012
These 2 specific kinds of Basalt combos (TR145R2F and R145RF) actually beat Flash with relative ease. I use banking personally, and it nets plenty of KOs for me.
Obviously for Basalt R145RF I have my whole thread to back it up in terms of testing, but sadly I don't have a TR145. TR145 seems to greatly improve my combo, so I'd love to try it out.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - SoulEater57 - Jul. 28, 2012
I think a 51 gram Basalt Aquario/Kerbecs 230CS/D could beat these.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Yamislayer - Jul. 29, 2012
(Jul. 28, 2012 9:08 PM)Galaxy Wrote: Phantom BD145 RF defeats both Flash S130\GB145 RF and Diablo BD145 RF
wow we can agree sometimes lol. I'd say: try both phantom and duo bd145 rf
to achieve this
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ickle - Jul. 29, 2012
I'm borrowing my neighbours Flash now.
Phantom Cancer BD145RF vs. Flash Escolpio D125RF
Standard procedure
Phantom Cancer BD145RF : 19 wins (9KO,10OS)
Flash Escolpio D125RF : 1 win (1KO)
Phantom Cancer win rate : 95%
RF switched at 11th round. Alternating launches. RF's were mint and Flash was mid worn.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - thermalwolf3261 - Jul. 29, 2012
storm wolf ch120 wd would win because of its stamina
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - slyx - Jul. 29, 2012
(Jul. 29, 2012 7:39 AM)thermalwolf3261 Wrote: storm wolf ch120 wd would win because of its stamina
...but also get knocked out to oblivion by just about everything, if not everything on the list. no point in outlasting something if it can't stay in the stadium, doncha ken? =D
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ingulit - Jul. 29, 2012
(Jul. 28, 2012 9:08 PM)Galaxy Wrote: Which kind of launch did you use to have a 23-7 for Basalt against Flash? It's never happened in my whole life, so I'm quite curious about your technique!
Ga'Hooleone's post answers this question perfectly:
(Jul. 28, 2012 11:34 PM)GaHooleone Wrote: These 2 specific kinds of Basalt combos (TR145R2F and R145RF) actually beat Flash with relative ease. I use banking personally, and it nets plenty of KOs for me.
Obviously for Basalt R145RF I have my whole thread to back it up in terms of testing, but sadly I don't have a TR145. TR145 seems to greatly improve my combo, so I'd love to try it out.
(Jul. 28, 2012 11:37 PM)SoulEater57 Wrote: I think a 51 gram Basalt Aquario/Kerbecs 230CS/D could beat these.
I would love a 51 gram Basalt :L I wouldn't doubt it would be incredibly effective, though that's pretty rare to say the least.
(Jul. 29, 2012 5:30 AM)Ickle Wrote: I'm borrowing my neighbours Flash now.
Phantom Cancer BD145RF vs. Flash Escolpio D125RF
Standard procedure
Phantom Cancer BD145RF : 19 wins (9KO,10OS)
Flash Escolpio D125RF : 1 win (1KO)
Phantom Cancer win rate : 95%
RF switched at 11th round. Alternating launches. RF's were mint and Flash was mid worn.
Awesome! I'll try Basalt against it a little later (once I get a working launcher), though I think this might beat it.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - SoulEater57 - Jul. 30, 2012
(Jul. 29, 2012 5:57 PM)Ingulit Wrote:I'm getting the strongest blader set, glaxy pegasis dx set and stuff. I can post some test if I get a real heavy basalt.(Jul. 28, 2012 9:08 PM)Galaxy Wrote: Which kind of launch did you use to have a 23-7 for Basalt against Flash? It's never happened in my whole life, so I'm quite curious about your technique!
Ga'Hooleone's post answers this question perfectly:
(Jul. 28, 2012 11:34 PM)GaHooleone Wrote: These 2 specific kinds of Basalt combos (TR145R2F and R145RF) actually beat Flash with relative ease. I use banking personally, and it nets plenty of KOs for me.
Obviously for Basalt R145RF I have my whole thread to back it up in terms of testing, but sadly I don't have a TR145. TR145 seems to greatly improve my combo, so I'd love to try it out.
(Jul. 28, 2012 11:37 PM)SoulEater57 Wrote: I think a 51 gram Basalt Aquario/Kerbecs 230CS/D could beat these.
I would love a 51 gram Basalt :L I wouldn't doubt it would be incredibly effective, though that's pretty rare to say the least.
(Jul. 29, 2012 5:30 AM)Ickle Wrote: I'm borrowing my neighbours Flash now.
Phantom Cancer BD145RF vs. Flash Escolpio D125RF
Standard procedure
Phantom Cancer BD145RF : 19 wins (9KO,10OS)
Flash Escolpio D125RF : 1 win (1KO)
Phantom Cancer win rate : 95%
RF switched at 11th round. Alternating launches. RF's were mint and Flash was mid worn.
Awesome! I'll try Basalt against it a little later (once I get a working launcher), though I think this might beat it.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ingulit - Jul. 30, 2012
Is that where the heavy Basalts are from? If anyone knows please shoot me a PM, I would love to know.
So I used the custom in this thread in my first tournament this past weekend it did pretty well. My launcher wasn't really up to snuff so I couldn't get an amazing launch, but it still managed to KO some stuff even at low spin rates and I know from testing that I could have gotten several more KOs if I could get the max RPMs I'm used to. I'm getting a new launcher and I just got a fresh R2F so I'm going to do some more testing ASAP, as it served me really well in the matches I used it despite my launcher wanting to mess me up.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - SoulEater57 - Jul. 30, 2012
(Jul. 30, 2012 4:28 AM)Ingulit Wrote: Is that where the heavy Basalts are from? If anyone knows please shoot me a PM, I would love to know.
So I used the custom in this thread in my first tournament this past weekend it did pretty well. My launcher wasn't really up to snuff so I couldn't get an amazing launch, but it still managed to KO some stuff even at low spin rates and I know from testing that I could have gotten several more KOs if I could get the max RPMs I'm used to. I'm getting a new launcher and I just got a fresh R2F so I'm going to do some more testing ASAP, as it served me really well in the matches I used it despite my launcher wanting to mess me up.
PM sent. haha
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - One Direction - Jul. 30, 2012
MF Rock Saggitario R145CS does well against Basalt anti-meta see here
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - *Ginga* - Jul. 30, 2012
The link is broken...
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ickle - Jul. 30, 2012
Just copy and paste the link into your address bar.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ga' - Jul. 30, 2012
(Jul. 30, 2012 12:30 PM)deathquetz Wrote: MF Rock Saggitario R145CS does well against Basalt anti-meta see here
I saw the video.
In informal testing, I destroyed that combo (friend's extra R145 and Sagittario). If you bank a defense combo like that, just straight shooting Basalt onto the TR is best.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Byerg - Jul. 30, 2012
(Jul. 30, 2012 12:30 PM)deathquetz Wrote: MF Rock Saggitario R145CS does well against Basalt anti-meta see here
Quote:Challenge: Beat All RF VariantsI haven't tried Rock against many things lately, but I'm completely sure it can't stand da powa of da Flash (or even Variares on that note)!
Also, I'm going to guess that something along the lines of Revizer Dragooon BD145RF/RDF/RB will accomplish this thread's goal.
"DRAGOOON IS BROKEN" ;D
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - Ingulit - Jul. 30, 2012
DRAGOOON IS BROKEN OKAY
But seriously, yes, I agree 100% about that custom standing a chance to succeed in this challenge. I'll be getting both Dragooon and Reviser in the mail very soon and BD145RDF is the first thing I'm testing. I'm thinking RDF both for its defense and minor LAD, but also because while it's heavy enough to hit like a bus full of fat people, I'm not convinced Reviser Dragooon has the smash of Diablo or extra-unbalanced-Basalt to get KOs on aggressive tips.
RE: Challenge: Beat All RF Variants (Also MF-H Basalt Horogium TR145R2F) - thermalwolf3261 - Jul. 31, 2012
(Jul. 29, 2012 7:55 AM)slyx Wrote: [quote='thermalwolf3261' pid='1001940' dateline='1343543965']
storm wolf ch120 wd would win because of its stamina
he or she said :...but also get knocked out to oblivion by just about everything, if not everything on the list. no point in outlasting something if it can't stay in the stadium, doncha ken? =D
and i reply :it depends on the stadium
