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+---- Thread: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) (/Thread-MF-H-Flash-Orion-W145MF-Help-me-beat-this)
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
This thread is not your normal type of custom thread. I'm not trying to convince you this is a good combo, as that should be fairly obvious; instead, I need help trying to find something that can actually beat this custom.
Why is this custom so hard to beat? What's so special about it? You might be thinking it sounds basically the exact same as the well-known MF-H Flash _____ AD145MF, and you'd be right. There is only one difference--W145 instead of AD145--but it makes all the difference in the world. W145 appears to be the premier 145-height stamina track (check out the W145 Testing thread), and its stamina advantage over AD145 enables this custom to OS things that AD145 couldn't dream of.
For reference, here are some solo spin times of the custom with both AD145 and W145. Both customs were launched into a perfect tornado stall.
MF-H Flash Orion AD145MF
1) 2:46
2) 2:51
3) 2:39
4) 2:49
5) 2:52
Average ~2:45
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF
1) 3:22
2) 3:27
3) 3:26
4) 3:38
5) 3:20
Average ~3:25
The important thing to note is that Flash on W145MF spins a solid 40 seconds longer on average than AD145MF when tornado stalling, which is a massive improvement. It is so much better, in fact, that for everything I've tested, the following is true:
This combo can KO anything it can't OS and can OS anything it can't KO.
In order to have enough defense to survive a direct hit from Flash, your custom needs to use a rubber tip of some sort or must include a Synchrom. In both cases, the defense Beyblade's stamina is low due to the friction caused by the rubber and/or by the imbalance caused by the Synchrom, respectively. Thus, if this custom can't outright KO the other Bey, it can tornado stall and OS it consistently.
If you want your Bey to have enough stamina to OS this custom while it is tornado stalling, you'll have to give up enough defense that this custom will be able to KO it instead.
What I'm asking for is some standard procedure testing of customs you think can consistently both survive direct attacks from this bey AND OS it if it tornado stalls perfectly. Don't recommend Attack types as attack dittos are not consistent at all (who wins is basically a coin toss). I also have reservations about Anti-Attack customs (heavy stuff that uses RF) because they can't OS Flash on MF if neither custom gets KOed.
Test Results
BB-10 Attack Stadium
Beylauncher LR with Suspension
Standard Procedure
Flash is always in Attack Mode
Duo is always in Stamina Mode
Death is always in Defense Mode
_______________________________
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Duo Gasher E230(Boost)RS
Tornado Stall, go for the OS
Duo always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 20 (20 OS)
Flash Win %: 100%
I'd like to point out that this is the custom that I thought could beat every Flash custom imaginable. This Duo custom beats AD145 when it tornado stalls, but W145's extra stamina make this a no-brainer for Flash.
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Duo Gasher E230(Boost)RDF
Tornado Stall, go for the OS
Duo always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 20 (20 OS)
Flash Win %: 100%
No better than RS. I'm not sure, but I think Flash might be able to KO this too, but I didn't try.
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Duo Gasher E230(Boost)CS
Flower Pattern, go for the KO
Duo always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 18 (18 KO)
Flash Win %: 90%
This custom has the stamina to OS a tornado stall, but it doesn't have enough defense to survive direct attacks.
**NOTE**
I used "Boost Mode" on E230 in these tests, and other users are pointing out that Normal Mode works better (and it certainly does).
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Wing Kerbecs R145RDF
Tornado Stall, go for the OS
Wing always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 20 (20 OS)
Flash Win %: 100%
This was my first Flash killer. It actually almost had enough stamina, but it still wasn't enough. The matches were closer at any rate.
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Scythe Uranus 85RS
Tornado Stall, go for the OS
Scythe always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 20 (20 OS)
Flash Win %: 100%
This was my second Flash killer. It will never get KOed by Flash on a 145 height, but that doesn't matter if it can't OS Flash on W145.
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF vs. MF-H Death Pegasus II BD145RB
Tornado Stall; you'll either KO him if he launches hard or OS him if he launches weak
Death always launched first
Spoiler (Click to View)
Flash: 18 (10 KO, 8 OS)
Flash Win %: 90%
This matchup was interesting. In order to have enough stamina to OS a tornado stalling Flash you have to launch this custom hard. When you do that, though, it starts roaming the stadium and it gets right in the path of the tornado stalling Flash for an easy KO. To avoid this, you can launch Death weak so it stays centered, but then it won't have enough stamina to OS Flash.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Angry Face - Jul. 18, 2012
Ha ha, you definitely need to get Diablo now. I'll do a little testing with this against Diablo BD145R2F later today, and my other combo soon.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 7:40 PM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote: Ha ha, you definitely need to get Diablo now. I'll do a little testing with this against Diablo BD145R2F later today, and my other combo soon.
You make a very compelling case, and after my frustrations with trying to defeat this custom I think it's time I give powerpig a call...
And yeah, tests against standard Diablo customs would be very appreciated (and shoot me a PM about that other custom, hah!). I have my hesitations about Anti-Attack being consistent enough, but that might be one of the few routes to take.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 7:35 PM)Ingulit Wrote: This combo can KO anything it can't OS and can OS anything it can't KO.Dat Daiblo __ BD145R2F
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 7:55 PM)Zancrow Wrote:(Jul. 18, 2012 7:35 PM)Ingulit Wrote: This combo can KO anything it can't OS and can OS anything it can't KO.Dat Daiblo __ BD145R2F
I don't have Diablo yet (it's coming in the mail now); if anyone could do some standard procedure testing it'd be awesome
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 18, 2012
Yeah..Flash gets destroyed..
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Angry Face - Jul. 18, 2012
Equipment:
Beylauncher
3-Segment Grip
Grip Rubber
Grip Extension
Launcher Rubber
Angle Compass
BB-10 Attack Stadium
Alternating launches
Diablo shot ~60-80% power to keep under control
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF v. MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145R2F
DK: 29 (27 KO, 2 OS)
FO: 1 KO
Ties: 4
Flash Average Win Rate: 3%
Flash's win was from one very big collision between the two and it just happened to be saved by the wall.
In this match-up; if Flash wasn't knocked out, it was the one to be out-spun. xD
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 8:51 PM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote: Flash's winSo I assume you mixed the two up? XD
Flash Average Win Rate: 3%
It should say:
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote:DK: 29 (27 KO, 2 OS)
FO: 1 KO
If that is the case, my statement above your post reigns true lol (i had already done tests, just haven't posted yet x3)
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
I didn't think anti-attack could be THAT consistent! I'm shocked that Diablo had OSs considering its poor stamina and the use of a rubber tip with a weaker launch.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - DefStamina88 - Jul. 18, 2012
I don't have W145 or Orion, but I do have AD145 and Pisces to contribute a little testing...
MF-H Flash Pisces AD145MF VS MF-H Wing Kerbecs BD145CS (Banking)
Flash: 7/20 (All KO)
Wing: 13/20 (All OS)
Flash %: 35%
MF-H Flash Pisces AD145MF VS MF-H Wing Kerbecs BD145CS (Tornado Stall)
Flash: 3/20 (1 OS, 2 KO)
Wing: 17/20 (All OS)
Flash %: 15%
Wing was able to beat this no problem. Tornado stalling, Flash got only low spin-rate KO's, and got lucky on the OS. Wing also took a few hits before getting KO-d on bank shots...
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
Orion and W145 are actually really important. It's pretty easy to beat AD145 since its stamina just isn't that great.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Angry Face - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 9:06 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I didn't think anti-attack could be THAT consistent! I'm shocked that Diablo had OSs considering its poor stamina and the use of a rubber tip with a weaker launch.
By the time they were both low on Stamina, Flash's elliptical shape was ultimately it's downfall.
That and Diablo just killed it.
@Zancrow: Thanks for pointing that out to me. lol
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 18, 2012
MF-H Flash Orion W145MF v. MF-H Diablo Kerbecs BD145RF
Standard Procedure:
Beylauncher
3-Segment Grip
Launcher Rubber
BB-32 Attack Stadium
Alternating Launches
Diablo: 20 Wins (19 KO, 1 OS)
Flash: 0 Wins (0 KO, 0 OS)
Draws: 3, All redone
Flash's Win Percentage: 0%
Unlike in ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)'s test results, Flash wasn't lucky enough to get an explosion win in mine
As he said, Flash's shape really was its downfall if it ever did come down to a Stamina battle (even though it was only actually did once ;D)
Also, thanks to RF's easy control, I didn't have to hold back when it comes to the launching power lol
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 18, 2012
Okay, good to know, thank you all! I'm really looking forward to my Diablo, then!
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Meow! - Jul. 18, 2012
I noticed you tried this against everything but, hybrids as some refer to them, now that synchrom dominates the pure defense category.
MF-H Duo Cancer BD145CS: CS and Duo both have more stamina than RB and Death, respectively, but I think it may have enough defense to withstand Flash MF's blows. (A prediction...I never understood the hype of Flash MF, because I couldn't beat duo bd145cs with it. Maybe I'm just bad with MF)
MF-H Duo Cancer E230MB (Boost Mode): It's and interesting combination I like to use. Just good enough to get over 50% against Flash _145RF but has enough stamina to outspin other defenders.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - ☣ - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 7:55 PM)Zancrow Wrote:Diablo Kerbecs BD145R2F?Try that.(Jul. 18, 2012 7:35 PM)Ingulit Wrote: This combo can KO anything it can't OS and can OS anything it can't KO.Dat Daiblo __ BD145R2F
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Angry Face - Jul. 18, 2012
LOL, we already have.
Look a couple posts up. xD
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - ☣ - Jul. 18, 2012
(Jul. 18, 2012 11:50 PM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote: LOL, we already have.Yes,I know.But Flash Orion sounds easy to beat.An OK attack wheel.A tall track the could provide no attack.The only thing good about this bey is the Metal Face Heavy and MF.Whoever made this made an epic FAIL.Plus,you used a different tip.
Look a couple posts up. xD
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 19, 2012
Dude.
Please, learn what you're talking about before you say anything like that.
You just called a combo an "epic FAIL", when in reality, this is a yet another terrific combo from the mind of Ingulit.
All your critiques on this combo are COMPLETELY WRONG.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - BEYDEXTER - Jul. 19, 2012
@ inguilt
I pm inguilt about the left rotating heavy attack custom
Try mf h l drago gaurdian/destroy bd145/gb145 lrf/rf
For further details check ur private messages
(do not try to criticize if u haven't even try the combo, if u try combo pls provide results)
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 19, 2012
Why don't you try posting something of importance while you're here..?
Cause I don't think us learning that you sent Ingulit a PM is really helping
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - BEYDEXTER - Jul. 19, 2012
I already sent him a pm before he make this threat and don't think that ur the best in here zancrow ,u should respect all
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 19, 2012
...what the heck are you talking about..?
Please..just stop...just..stop *sigh*
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Ingulit - Jul. 19, 2012
Lol, it's cool, he did mention trying that custom against this in a PM. I'll test it as soon as I can (that'll be tomorrow since my family is asleep already). I'll also MF-H L-Drago Guardian BD145RDF since it's being considered for the top-tier list.
So far we have Diablo as a consistent choice against this, is there anything else? Again, I'll try the L-Drago customs I mentioned.
RE: MF-H Flash Orion W145MF (Help me beat this) - Byerg - Jul. 19, 2012
I've already done some tests against MF-H L-Drago Guardian BD145RDF, Flash can both stall it AND KO it.
BUT, I did a few tests against MF-H L-Drago Guardian BD145RF, and L-Drago didn't do bad (not as well as Diablo of course).
I'll probably have to do it tomorrow as well lol.