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+--- Thread: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide (/Thread-Circle-Heavy-Circle-Wide)
Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - Nocto - Jun. 11, 2012
I'd need other weights, considering the difference between my two Circle Heavy.
Weight Disk (WD): Circle Heavy
Weight: 15.77 / 16.49
Circle Heavy is the heaviest and most compact of the three original HMS Weight Disks. It features eight small, round studs spread evenly over its circumference. Its heavy, centered weight makes it a potent, although outclassed, Defense-Type Weight Disk and thus an adequate alternative to the better shock-absorbing CWD ([[17g]]) God Ring (Shining God MS) and heavier CWD ([[17g]]) Defense Ring (Sea Dragon). Its weight distribution also provides a higher rotational velocity, a necessary attribute for Upper Attack customizations, as it increases the rotational force of the Beyblade as well as reducing its Recoil. The result being a better chance of lifting (heavier) Beyblades and reduced chances to be knocked down instead.
Circle Heavy’s small size also leaves the underside of Attack Rings unobstructed. This makes it ideal for Force Smash customizations, where it can maximize the effectiveness of slopes and protrusions under Attack Rings.
Overall, Circle Heavy shares many characteristics with CWD ([[17g]]) Defense Ring (Sea Dragon), namely the shape, the weight and weight distribution. While CWD ([[17g]]) Defense Ring is preferred, Circle Heavy remains viable, especially for low budget customizations.
Use in Defense Customization:
AR: Samurai Upper (Samurai Changer MS)
WD: Circle Heavy
RC: Bearing Core 2 (Jiraiya MS)
Use in Upper Attack Customization:
AR: Circle Upper (Death Gargoyle MS)
WD: Circle Heavy
RC: Grip Flat Core (Ultimate Version) (Dragoon MS UV)
Use in Force Smash Customization:
AR: Advance Attacker (Force Smash Mode) (Advance Striker)
WD: Circle Heavy
RC: Tornado Change Core (Dark Leopard MS)/Manual Change Core (Dranzer MS)
Picture (Click to View)
Weight Disk (WD): Circle Wide
Weight: 13.97
Circle Wide is the widest, but lightest of the three original HMS Weight Disks. It is completely circular. Its weight distribution is best used in Survival and Smash Attack customizations. For Survival, an externalized weight increases the flywheel effect and makes spin harder to interrupt. For Smash Attack, it increases the movement speed of aggressive Running Cores as well as placing the weight directly under the protrusions.
Mold Variation
A heavier mold for Circle Wide was released with the Takara version of Draciel MS. The increase in weight ranges from ~0.5 to ~0.7 grams. The effects on performance caused by the heavier weight are only positive; a further increase in movement speed, a better flywheel effect and an even harder to interrupt spin. This mold is preferred in every and all situations.
Despite the generally unsuited characteristics of Circle Wide for Upper Attack, the heavier mold can be used for it, trading rotational velocity for an increase in movement speed/momentum.
Use in Survival Customization
AR: Advance Survivor (Advance Eterner)
WD: Circle Wide
RC: Bearing Core (Wolborg MS)
Use in Smash Attack Customization:
AR: Slash Upper (Slash Riger MS)
WD: Circle Wide
RC: Grip Flat Core (Dragoon MS)
Picture (Click to View)
Mold Variation: (Sonokong)
Sonokong molds for Circle Heavy, Circle Balance and Circle Wide have smaller grooves to fit on the tabs of Running Cores. Combined with the normal variation of parts (in micrometres), this means that Sonokong's Weight Disks may fit tighter than those of Takara and Hasbro, or even not fit at all.
RE: Circle Heavy/ Circle Wide - th!nk - Jun. 11, 2012
Hm, I was writing something on these two a while back, I must go find that later.
I'd offer weights but my scale isn't calibrated right now, and I can't get a new calibration weight for a while, however, I can say the weights vary wildly, not just for these two weight disks either, but for most metal HMS parts I've weighed. Circle Heavy, if I recally correctly, is the most noticeable one where there aren't any mold differences.
In terms of the draft itself, it's solid as always, though there are a few things I'd change, specifically mentioning more about upper attack in the Circle Heavy section. While any CWD with the 17g CWD piece is heavier, the weight distribution of Circle Heavy is still much more centred, though I'm not sure which is technically more compact, as I'm not 100% on how to go about measuring that.
If I recall correctly, one of my largest issues was writing about Circle Wide and the heavier version from Draciel MS, given that outclasses the lighter version for all uses, and so on, information on that part should probably be included in this article.
My other concern is an ongoing one with HMS articles, and that is that we should refer to the 17g CWD Metal Part as it's own part, rather than CWD Defense Ring, as the plastic part may be swapped, which allows any CWD to be heavier than Circle Heavy - including, of course, CWD God Ring. I'd also argue that any relatively circular CWD would absorb hits better than Circle Heavy just because they're plastic, whilst this implies that Circle Heavy absorbs hits better than CWD Defense Ring.
Still, a solid draft as always.
RE: Circle Heavy/ Circle Wide - Nocto - Jun. 11, 2012
th!nk Wrote:I'd also argue that any relatively circular CWD would absorb hits better than Circle Heavy just because they're plastic, whilst this implies that Circle Heavy absorbs hits better than CWD Defense Ring.
Yes, but God Ring specificaly is also free-spinning and apparently the widest (by a nice margin, according to photographs). So I'm curious how that fits into the equation, considering it would be the heaviest of the three, but the least compact.
th!nk Wrote:While any CWD with the 17g CWD [...] Circle Wide and the heavier version from Draciel MS
To be honest, I didn't include these because I wasn't actually convinced it was more than a few exceptions, since I couldn't find actual proof. Now I did ( http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Digital-Scales?highlight=17+grams ), so I will. I'm just curious now about why we have rounded up weights with so many people having precision scales.
th!nk Wrote:the weight distribution of Circle Heavy is still much more centred, though I'm not sure which is technically more compact, as I'm not 100% on how to go about measuring that.
I have a tachometer, so if I can get my hands on a RBA2 Sea Dragon, I'll see about testing both. That could be one way to do it.
I've also (possibly) found a mold variation between Takara's Circle Weight Disks and Sonokong's. Sonokong molds seem to be tighter than Takara's, much like the Gold series (although not necessarily unusable). I'll try to get actual measurements, but if you want to try yours and confirm/invalidate it.
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - th!nk - Jun. 11, 2012
I would imagine Heavy would still be more compact, given the majority of it would fit within the "space" under the CWD metal part. As for God Ring vs other plastic parts, it all depends on where that weight is focussed in the end, I don't have a god ring myself to really see (so expensive!), but even then, with something like that it's hard to tell. Of course, I agree that god ring is probably the best shock-absorbing CWD, but Defense ring would still be better for that than a circle heavy.
As for why we have rounded up weights, I believe it's because most of the sites that provided weights used to go by the gram, and perhaps they were somwehat right to, given the variation and perhaps their limited sample size, giving a specific weight and having it accurate is difficult. I don't agree that nearest-gram weights are the best way to handle it, but that was the most logical reason I could come up with, and even then it's pretty shoddy, given that 1g rounding has caused many to believe 6 heavy is significantly heavier than 8 heavy, something I was surprised to find falsified when weighing some of my parts.
I personally don't find any tightness difference with my Sonokong Circle Wide (Draciel MS), though it's a little shorter than my other two "15g" (really 14.5-7g) circle wides, it's only the lightest by .01g.
That said, Sonokong may have made some moulding changes, my Sonokong Draciel MS ABS Caul and Metal Frame don't perfectly fit with Takara parts, and my Sonokong Gaia Dragoon AR has no looseness issue - the bumps on the inside that hold onto the weight disk are much larger than my takara ones. My sonokong metal frame is also slightly thicker, being the heaviest of the four copies of that metal frame I own (3 gaia dragoon MS, 1 Advance averazer).
It may be that they also used some Takara weight disks and that I got one of those in mine, that seemed to happen in at least their G-Revolution Plastics somewhat (i.e. I have had Sonokong beys come with normal weight disks as well as the whiter-coloured, sharper-cornered ones only sonokong have, even with two otherwise identical beyblades). That's all guesswork though, and I'd be curious to see your measurements.
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - Nocto - Jun. 12, 2012
Alright, so I've added most things th!nk mentioned, except for Circle Heavy being more compact than CWD Defense Ring. It's true, but I think we need more info on how it compares to the additional of Defense Ring with a 17g CWD. I've also added some customization examples.
As for the possible Mold variation, I'll update with the actual measurements later, but the place where my Running Cores jam is on the large section of the "cross gap". The average width for my Sonokong Weight Disks is ~5.96mm, while for Takara and Hasbro, its ~6.24mm.
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - th!nk - Jun. 12, 2012
For the smash attack custom, I find Slash Upper works much better, though I actually use Samurai Upper/15g Circle Wide/GFC (UM) as my main attacker, as the additional smash (with Samurai Upper having smash (especially upward smash from its slopes) as well as upper) more than compensates for any possible loss in upper attack (I don't honestly notice any difference, I assume it's again a matter of using slightly less lift slightly more efficiently, if anything), and the extra life-after-death seems to do well against my bearing core 2, though that may be a fault with the latter. It's also listed as a top tier Upper WD on the HMS Combos list, for whatever that is worth.
I figure it may perhaps be worth mentioning that despite its seemingly unsuitable characteristics, the heavier mold, at least, is still a good choice for Upper Attack customs, the increased movement speed being the main reason.
EDIT: It turns out I confused my circle wides, specifically which one my sonokong one is. Now I know for sure I have the right one (I had some stuff about it written down to identify it from) - it is slightly taller than my non-takara-draciel-ms ones, but shorter than my "15g" circle wides, and roughly the same weight as is normal for a 14g one. While not tighter to the point of jamming being a possibility, it is noticeably tighter than my other ones (both 14 and 15g)
EDIT2: Woah hey, it actually just got stuck on my new metal change core. The MCC seems to be slightly tighter with everything than my other tracks, but other WD's don't get stuck.
EDIT 3: My Sonokong Dranzer MS Circle Balance also gets stuck. I have a few tracks where this happens, and it happens with both. Metal Change, Bearing Core 2, Metal Flat, DZMF RC and both my bunshin cores (blue and green) do it. Slash Riger's doesn't, nor do any of my Flat (both molds)/Sharp/Semi-Flat or GFC (UM).
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - Nocto - Jun. 17, 2012
(Jun. 12, 2012 1:52 AM)th!nk Wrote: For the smash attack custom, I find Slash Upper works much better, though I actually use Samurai Upper/15g Circle Wide/GFC (UM) as my main attacker, as the additional smash (with Samurai Upper having smash (especially upward smash from its slopes) as well as upper) more than compensates for any possible loss in upper attack (I don't honestly notice any difference, I assume it's again a matter of using slightly less lift slightly more efficiently, if anything), and the extra life-after-death seems to do well against my bearing core 2, though that may be a fault with the latter. It's also listed as a top tier Upper WD on the HMS Combos list, for whatever that is worth.
I don't have Slash Upper, but looking at the photographs, I can see how its more "Spike Attack" shaped protrusions might be better, but is it more consistent than Jiraiya Blade?
(Jun. 12, 2012 1:52 AM)th!nk Wrote: I figure it may perhaps be worth mentioning that despite its seemingly unsuitable characteristics, the heavier mold, at least, is still a good choice for Upper Attack customs, the increased movement speed being the main reason.
Considering the compact nature of HMS, I'm inclined to believe it. Added.
(Jun. 12, 2012 1:52 AM)th!nk Wrote: EDIT: It turns out I confused my circle wides, specifically which one my sonokong one is. Now I know for sure I have the right one (I had some stuff about it written down to identify it from) - it is slightly taller than my non-takara-draciel-ms ones, but shorter than my "15g" circle wides, and roughly the same weight as is normal for a 14g one. While not tighter to the point of jamming being a possibility, it is noticeably tighter than my other ones (both 14 and 15g)
EDIT2: Woah hey, it actually just got stuck on my new metal change core. The MCC seems to be slightly tighter with everything than my other tracks, but other WD's don't get stuck.
EDIT 3: My Sonokong Dranzer MS Circle Balance also gets stuck. I have a few tracks where this happens, and it happens with both. Metal Change, Bearing Core 2, Metal Flat, DZMF RC and both my bunshin cores (blue and green) do it. Slash Riger's doesn't, nor do any of my Flat (both molds)/Sharp/Semi-Flat or GFC (UM).
Added a Mold Variation section for this.
I've also added Manual Change Core to the Force Smash custom. I've seen your question about Force Smash and Tornado Change Core, but I don't know the answer. Personally, I only have BB-10 and I can't really make Force Smash work, be it with Sharp Core, Free Shaft Core or Manual Change Core, so I can't say how much better Tornado Change Core would be, but it's the only one left.
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - th!nk - Jun. 17, 2012
Slash upper is much more consistent given a rubber tip (Jiraiya Blade is better on Metal Change Core, in the combo mentioned in the jiraiya MS article). The addition of some upper attack into the mix means it is much better equipped to handle bearing core 2 customs, too.
As for force smash, yeah, it's impossible to get answers about part comparisons for HMS these days... I mean, most of what I read about it talks about CWD Eternal Defense, but even in the Tornado Change article it only talks about working against low customs, and that's mostly Attack Types which are just going to laugh at anything with a sharp tip (well, barring metal flat attack, but eurgh).
I can definitely get it to work at least somewhat effectively with Advance Attacker and Manual Change Core in both Tornado Attack and BB-10, though it's not really a top-tier type in HMS.
Honestly, I'm probably just going to end up buying Dark Leopard and probably a Hasbro Dranzer MS to resolve the whole thing myself, like I do for plastics.
RE: Circle Heavy/Circle Wide - Nocto - Jun. 17, 2012
(Jun. 17, 2012 1:58 PM)th!nk Wrote: Honestly, I'm probably just going to end up buying Dark Leopard and probably a Hasbro Dranzer MS to resolve the whole thing myself, like I do for plastics.
Good Luck.
(Jun. 17, 2012 1:58 PM)th!nk Wrote: Slash upper is much more consistent given a rubber tip (Jiraiya Blade is better on Metal Change Core, in the combo mentioned in the jiraiya MS article). The addition of some upper attack into the mix means it is much better equipped to handle bearing core 2 customs, too.
Changed. Anything else seems off?