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+--- Thread: Should we ban Basalt? (/Thread-Should-we-ban-Basalt--38423)
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
That's the point. The ban would be temporary, much like the one with Libra. Once the metagame catches up, it'd be re-introduced.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai-V - Aug. 15, 2011
Shadow Scythe, apparently you participated in at least two London tournaments, one of which was reported to have been won with these combinations :
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Winning-Combinations?pid=666300#pid666300
How come you did not get to the top then, if counters for Basalt are so obviously there and can be used ? Apparently tournaments in London are really infested with Basalt most of the time.
What did you lose against then ? And what were you using ?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Pony - Aug. 15, 2011
Meh. Whatever. As long as it's not permanently banned.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Hazel - Aug. 15, 2011
I may not have a tournament perspective to offer on this issue, but simply breaking it down and looking at it from the basic standpoint is this: Basalt has overthrown every other ring in the Defense and Stamina categories, completely homogenizing those two fields of play. Personally, I can't really see it as fun when everyone's using the exact same thing and being nigh unstoppable with it.
Any time, in any metagame of ANY sort, this kind of thing happens, the offender is usually banned or isolated to a specific tier or style of play. When one option of many becomes the only option at all, it's a problem. Especially when the only way to beat that option in any fashion is to get a nearly perfect launch on a highly specialized(and exceptionally underused) type.
I voted for banning it.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
Here we go! This is another post that personifies why Basalt needs to be banned in the first place. The issue is, people seem to think that counter combos let Basalt off of the hook. Back when they were the "thing", Basalt was overpowered. It still is. Let us compare this to Yu-Gi-Oh. Almost everyone agrees that Sangan needs to be banned, because it is simply too useful and simply breaks the game. Yeah, there are a few niche ways to kill it, namely in one's usual side deck, but that's not the point. People don't always fill their side deck just to stop Sangan. Basalt is the same. Not everyone knows how to use a counter, so banning Basalt is much better. Would I like to use Basalt in a tournament? Hell yes. Is it worth the metagame hitting the dirt? Nope. It's a stretch of a comparison, but it's the only thing I could come up with on a whim.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Deikailo - Aug. 15, 2011
My Blitz Unicorno 85R2F has been ANNIHILATING Basalt Aquario BD145CS, however, it's having trouble KOing Bakushin Bull BD145CS.
Basalt is only a threat because everyone hears it is good. Against attack types, its own weight can be turned against it. It's so solid it has so much recoil. It needs breaks in the metal to absorb hits.
(Aug. 15, 2011 3:27 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Spin Sonic your notion that everyone should train is rediculous since it's never gonna work.Well, gee, seemed to work for him just fine since he won a tournament with a screw wheel against spammed Basalts and Scythes.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai_hiwitari - Aug. 15, 2011
I do think its kinda sad that i have to buy basalt just to make sure i dont end up at a disadvantage because its so overpowered. Yeah there are combos that can beat it but at the same time statistics (im guessing) would be in favor of basalt. I just dont want to go to tournaments and see 20 people using nothing but basalt wheels. I feel like people are justifying its use just to throw and overpowered top into the game. Its not even a particularly interesting wheel to begin with, it doesnt make room for alot of strategy for those using the wheel. Its heavy, its round, its a tank, thats it. I sure people will debate this but look at the design, there is no defining feature to it. Its completely round.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
That's the issue here. If a tournament has 20 Earth Bull 145WDs, one is practically guaranteed to win top 3. In fact, one would likely place first due to sheer numbers. Same with Basalt. So many people use it, it'll dominate the metagame because so many use it.
On Deikailo's point, Spin-Sonic is Spin-Sonic. We should not have to ruin the game for others because a select few can beat something that not many of us can. A person with a great shot will be able to work those counters, but most of us can't, and you can't really say "That's your problem" and move on. It's not really fair. We put the work in too, it just doesn't always work out. Basalt is normally beaten by counters that really aren't used often, so saying that it is enough to keep it for now, that would be like saying that if an insane part were to be released, two or three counters would keep it from being banned. Essentially, this is what I hear: "If it can be beaten at all, even if it is only one combo that is nearly impossible to use, if the best of us can beat it, keep it, simply because it can be beaten. Also, if you cannot beat Basalt or use those counters, that's your fault, and there's nothing we can do for you. Even if it is about 75% of the community."
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 3:27 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Spin Sonic your notion that everyone should train is rediculous since it's never gonna work.Well, gee, seemed to work for him just fine since he won a tournament with a screw wheel against spammed Basalts and Scythes.
[/quote]
That wasn't what I meant by that at all...
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai_hiwitari - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:01 PM)Temporal Wrote: That's the issue here. If a tournament has 20 Earth Bull 145WDs, one is practically guaranteed to win top 3. In fact, one would likely place first due to sheer numbers. Same with Basalt. So many people use it, it'll dominate the metagame because so many use it.
On Deikailo's point, Spin-Sonic is Spin-Sonic. We should not have to ruin the game for others because a select few can beat something that not many of us can. A person with a great shot will be able to work those counters, but most of us can't, and you can't really say "That's your problem" and move on. It's not really fair.
I agree, with some of these tournaments were dealing a small number participants and when you have a few of those people using overpowered parts your going to end up with a bunch of winners with the same top. I feel like basalt is taking away diversity in the game.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
It is, and that's where the "Ban Basalt" idea came from. You can't deviate from the norm any more. You either use Basalt, you use Scythe as a Stamina Wheel, you use a niche counter or Beat/Fang, or you lose.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Deikailo - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:01 PM)Temporal Wrote: We should not have to ruin the game for others because a select few can beat something that not many of us can. A person with a great shot will be able to work those counters, but most of us can't, and you can't really say "That's your problem" and move on. It's not really fair. We put the work in too, it just doesn't always work out. Basalt is normally beaten by counters that really aren't used often, so saying that it is enough to keep it for now, that would be like saying that if an insane part were to be released, two or three counters would keep it from being banned. Essentially, this is what I hear: "If it can be beaten at all, even if it is only one combo that is nearly impossible to use, if the best of us can beat it, keep it, simply because it can be beaten. Also, if you cannot beat Basalt or use those counters, that's your fault, and there's nothing we can do for you. Even if it is about 75% of the community."Okay, so what you're saying is we should handicap the game because some people can't be bothered to take the time to discover creative combinations and/or master attack types? The point of playing competitively is to show who is the strongest blader. A strong blader would be in that 25%.
If it's 75% percentage of the community, then they should actually try to practice to win.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - KCPJ - Aug. 15, 2011
Fudge this,I change my mind,I'm just going to find another way Destroy Basalt.Even if it takes me to test every combo,I could make!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai_hiwitari - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:12 PM)Deikailo Wrote:(Aug. 15, 2011 7:01 PM)Temporal Wrote: We should not have to ruin the game for others because a select few can beat something that not many of us can. A person with a great shot will be able to work those counters, but most of us can't, and you can't really say "That's your problem" and move on. It's not really fair. We put the work in too, it just doesn't always work out. Basalt is normally beaten by counters that really aren't used often, so saying that it is enough to keep it for now, that would be like saying that if an insane part were to be released, two or three counters would keep it from being banned. Essentially, this is what I hear: "If it can be beaten at all, even if it is only one combo that is nearly impossible to use, if the best of us can beat it, keep it, simply because it can be beaten. Also, if you cannot beat Basalt or use those counters, that's your fault, and there's nothing we can do for you. Even if it is about 75% of the community."Okay, so what you're saying is we should handicap the game because some people can't be bothered to take the time to discover creative combinations and/or master attack types? The point of playing competitively is to show who is the strongest blader. A strong blader would be in that 25%.
If it's 75% percentage of the community, then they should actually try to practice to win.
My point is we should never tip the scale for someone using a specific top. I can beat basalt im not worried about that but its no fun to battle three people in a row using the same thing.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
I don't see it as a handicap. I see it as allowing other combos to win. As of now, the metagame is "Beat Basalt or lose the tournament", and not many people here can. Because of that, people are more likely to use Basalt themselves to have the same success. I can say with fair certainty that once Twisted Tempo becomes widely available, there will be an insane increase in Basalt winning tournaments. As for saying that we shouldn't oblige to the 75% because it is a competitive atmosphere, I realize this, but why can't the game still be fun? When you have one combo that can win, and a bunch of tiny ones that topple it, that still requires vast knowledge and a near perfect launch, where is the fun? I mean, those combos won't beat much else, so there is no point in running them other than to beat Basalt. Regardless of such, Basalt is still undeniably the best single part in the metagame. It dominates tournaments, and you cannot move between types. It ruins the fun of the game. And let's face it. It's not fun to lose to the same combo over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - KCPJ - Aug. 15, 2011
Now that you brought that up,dang we have to ban Basalt,when twisted tempo comes,it would be a Basalt world.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Meteo4Ever - Aug. 15, 2011
well me personally I wouldn't ban it because it was obviously made (by takara tomy) to compete, thats why all beyblades were made. of course just because I'm an older blader dosen't meen I'm the most experienced in tournaments. so I don't know, the more experienced and the committee know more than I do but you know every opinion count for somthing I guess
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
Misconception here. Takara Tomy made Basalt to be the best in defense, but they HAVE admitted mistakes before with Libra. The issue here is that Basalt is the best wheel hands-down, which was obviously not intended, I hope. Why would you intentionally make a game-breaking part?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - taz465 - Aug. 15, 2011
No guys we can't ban this. Please, some of us rely on basalt... It's is my only good bey and I bet the same for alot other people. Yes I no it's dominates tournaments but something has to beable to beat it like at least wait for phantom Orion to come out and see how that against it. So hear me out people.... Just wait and see and do lots of testing. (:
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - HollowPerseus - Aug. 15, 2011
Another reason.^ You don't need skill to win with a Basalt Combo. There's already been enough testing on it, and it is overpowered. But I don't care. It's just an Obstacle we have to overcome. We should take time to find a combo that can topple it. With a Stamina combo you don't need a lot of skill. Wouldn't it be better to have people learning how to counter it , instead of taking the easy way out?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:33 PM)taz465 Wrote: No guys we can't ban this. Please, some of us rely on basalt... It's is my only good bey and I bet the same for alot other people. Yes I no it's dominates tournaments but something has to beable to beat it like at least wait for phantom Orion to come out and see how that against it. So hear me out people.... Just wait and see and do lots of testing. (:
Instead of relying on whaty part that breaks the metagame practise and get other parts. We are not waiting a month and a half for when Phantom Orion is released. Honestly your reasoning is very selfish.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - TakasuMouce - Aug. 15, 2011
Its like a challege for attack type bladers. I really dont think they should ban it.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:40 PM)HollowPerseus Wrote: Another reason.^ You don't need skill to win with a Basalt Combo. There's already been enough testing on it, and it is overpowered. But I don't care. What I used to see is Basalt is just in Obstacle that Attack type bladers will have to overcome. But I'm on Temporals side. Ban it. It kills the Fun.
So you don't care that it's overpowered but you still want it banned? Contradicting much? No one bloody uses attack types in tourneys.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Spin-Sonic - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 7:21 PM)Temporal Wrote: I don't see it as a handicap. I see it as allowing other combos to win. As of now, the metagame is "Beat Basalt or lose the tournament", and not many people here can. Because of that, people are more likely to use Basalt themselves to have the same success. I can say with fair certainty that once Twisted Tempo becomes widely available, there will be an insane increase in Basalt winning tournaments. As for saying that we shouldn't oblige to the 75% because it is a competitive atmosphere, I realize this, but why can't the game still be fun? When you have one combo that can win, and a bunch of tiny ones that topple it, that still requires vast knowledge and a near perfect launch, where is the fun?
This whole post implies EXACTLY what the issue is here. Yu, and others tht are complaining want/need a handicap becuse you cant perform and/or dont hve the skll to beat Basalt. That is your issue. Deikailo posted great points! If you knew bettr, yu wuld do better. Beyblade is not ment to tend to the needs of those who cnt do something tht isnt all tht hrd in the first place. Stop crying and train. If all yu look for is fun with no cmpetetion, free play. Otherwise, get out.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Meteo4Ever - Aug. 15, 2011
thank you temporal for pointing out my mistake in my last post on this issue but I agree with tazz that some bladers have to rely on basalt. And plus speeking from experience I've beaten basalt with a combo I made, so that proves that its not unbeatable, and I've also seen many tournaments where people with basalt loose and don't even make it to the semi-finals, but again this a decision to be made by the committee.