World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc.
Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Printable Version

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RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Kei - Jul. 04, 2013

When a Beyblade is using the outer disc of RDF to prevent itself from falling over, that's precession. I think it's important to have the distinction between precession and Life After Death because they are mutually exclusive events: precession is refers to the balance a Beyblade exhibits after it has begun to wobble, and LAD refers to the ability of a Beyblade to continue spinning even after it has fallen over. They both refer to "continuing to spin when a part doesn't have enough energy to maintain stable", but they don't happen at the same time, and something with good precession won't necessarily have good LAD.

How do you measure a Beyblades "Ability to continue spinning at low rpm/energy"? Isn't it through both precession and LAD?

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

Messed up phone corrections turned the word bey in net.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ingulit - Jul. 04, 2013

I'm interested in seeing where this LAD discussion goes, so I'm going to address this and let you guys keep at it:

(Jul. 04, 2013  6:19 AM)AZL Wrote: Why does friction speed up a net and not slow it down?

(Jul. 04, 2013  6:30 AM)AZL Wrote: Messed up phone corrections turned the word bey in net.

Friction literally never speeds anything up; that's kind of the opposite of its definition, lol! Not sure what you're talking about Tongue_out

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Snoop Dog MS - Jul. 04, 2013

What happens if there is a beyblade that after it stops spinning and when certain height beyblades hit it it starts spinning again. Wouldn't that be the technical term? (Life After Death?)

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

@Shining God MS, yes it does mean LAD I think but if a bey stopmiving,even for a second, it is considered dead.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Snoop Dog MS - Jul. 04, 2013

I would prefer this from an Admin/ Moderator.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

How come R2F have so much "speed" then?
I forgot to quote.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Snoop Dog MS - Jul. 04, 2013

It is because it is a flat Bottom. Plus, it has rubber all around it which gives more grip and speed.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

Having grip makes sense but not speed.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - th!nk - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  6:25 AM)Kei Wrote: When a Beyblade is using the outer disc of RDF to prevent itself from falling over, that's precession. I think it's important to have the distinction between precession and Life After Death because they are mutually exclusive events: precession is refers to the balance a Beyblade exhibits after it has begun to wobble, and LAD refers to the ability of a Beyblade to continue spinning even after it has fallen over. They both refer to "continuing to spin when a part doesn't have enough energy to maintain stable", but they don't happen at the same time, and something with good precession won't necessarily have good LAD.

How do you measure a Beyblades "Ability to continue spinning at low rpm/energy"? Isn't it through both precession and LAD?

The thing is that good precession can substitute for good LAD or supplant it entirely. I agree that precession and LAD, at least without redefining the latter, are two distinct things, but I feel that they aren't nearly as relevant as something that encompasses them both (and any other similar phenomena) would be.

As for how to measure that, well in plastics you just get a left and right sg, two wide survivors/wide defenses and a pair of AR's that perform roughly evenly when one is in left and the other in right, build the combos, launch, repeat x amount of times and see who comes out on top. This is because it's that ability to continue spinning at lower rpm (i.e. using energy more efficiently) that determines the victor of a spin stealing matchup as long as the collisions aren't causing major interference (recoil/destabilization etc), especially because height-based destabilisation isn't all that relevant to plastics. Harder to do with MFB for various reasons - more destabilization, recoil, limitations of opposite spin parts, etc etc, but that doesn't mean we should continue using a needlessly complex dual-measure system for it.

@AZL: There was a decent discussion of this from a long time back. The short answer is Traction (and also rubber doesn't always make things faster (look at RS)), and I'm pretty sure if you search for traction you'll find it. Also, please use the edit function rather than making multiple posts.

Ingulit: He's talking about movement speed, not rotation speed. People seem to forget that movement comes from the energy of rotation, more traction allows more of that rotation to be converted to movement around the stadium. 'swhy cars have rubber tires and drag racers spin their wheels to get them warm and more grippy.

@Shining God MS: While I am neither Admin nor Moderator, if a beyblade stops, it loses the match. It being able to be spun again would almost certainly be due to decent life after death, but for our purposes this is completely irrelevant. Also note that Life After Death is not a "have or have not", it's a property of all beyblades, they just have differing amounts (some have almost none, some have a load).

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Dual - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  6:46 AM)AZL Wrote: Having grip makes sense but not speed.
Perhaps Beywiki could help?
http://wiki.worldbeyblade.org/index.php/Galaxy_Pegasis_W105R²F

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

ItJOt doesn't tell about speed.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - th!nk - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  7:04 AM)AZL Wrote: ItJOt doesn't tell about speed.

... Did you actually read the article? It does, pretty clearly.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Ocean - Jul. 04, 2013

Grip gives speed is all it says.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Cannon - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  7:26 AM)AZL Wrote: Grip gives speed is all it says.

Beywiki says Wrote:Right Rubber Flat, shortened to R²F, is–competitively speaking–the most vital part of this Beyblade. R²F is very similar to RF, and is an overall upgraded version of it. R²F consists of six curved rubber spikes that face to the right intended predominantly for use in right-spin combos. This new design creates more traction with the stadium floor, causing it to move more quickly than its predecessor, RF. However, its stamina is decreased due to the increase in speed and friction compared to the original RF. This also means an R²F will wear down faster than an RF.

That's just in the first paragraph of R2F, just sayin'.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Plastics Lover - Jul. 04, 2013

Which Beyblade Tip in all the Generations of Beyblade has the fastest movement speed?

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Cannon - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  8:57 AM)Plastics Lover Wrote: Which Beyblade Tip in all the Generations of Beybalde has the fastest movement speed?

Giga Flat (GF), i'm sure is the fastest.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Plastics Lover - Jul. 04, 2013

Wait, so is GF faster than R2F/LRF, Cannon?

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Nemo - Jul. 04, 2013

Yeah! Obviously as it is the flattest tip ever made till now!

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - th!nk - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  9:21 AM)Nemo Wrote: Yeah! Obviously as it is the flattest tip ever made till now!

... Widest, you mean.

And that doesn't necessarily mean it will be faster, if it didn't have enough traction to use the energy of rotation to propel itself around the stadium, it would just sit in place awkwardly. This would only really happen with a very low-friction material, but nonetheless, it isn't really obvious given the fact rubber has greater traction thus can convert rotation to movement more efficiently. RF and R2F/LRF are the same width, but the latter is faster - more traction.

FWIW, Grip Base tornado stalls extremely fast, and plastics has more powerful launchers than MFB in the Power Custom, Spring Shooter (or whatever it is, has spring support built in) and the Deluxe launchers (the Deluxe launchers have one less tooth than the other two plus-power launchers but energy has to go into the gyro system as well, which means it takes more effort to launch, so I'm not sure which is actually faster). Would be interested to see if it couldn't approach GF's speed - though this would only be while tornado stalling, grip base's tip shape means it tornado stalls at ridiculous speeds (and quickly burns through its stamina), much faster than its normal movement speed.

I don't own Giga Flat myself, so I can't really say.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Nocto - Jul. 04, 2013

LAD/Precession discussion:

It's true that every Beyblades exhibit LAD and precession in some manner, but the same is true of recoil and a number of other physics laws and phenomena, but you won't see anyone bring up Earth's recoil as an impairing factor, for example.

You say they're interchangeable, but there's plenty of Tracks, such as BD145, that greatly enhance a Beyblade's ability to precess, but there's three spikes on BD145 that null any chance of meaningful LAD.

And I don't quite see why you argue for an encompassing term against having two terms for two clearly distinct phenomena when you argued for the distinction of Smash Attack and OHKO, two different levels/approaches to an Attack style (I agree with having the distinction, mind you, and yes, I am aware you are also clearing up misconceptions about what is OHKO itself).

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - th!nk - Jul. 04, 2013

True, but I feel it's an important thing to keep in mind, as people tend to forget it's not a have or have not situation.

I'm not sure what you mean about BD145 increasing precession - it has an edge-focussed weight distribution, and the roundness helps with spin stealing but the low height and spikes means that it tends to wreck precession...

I don't want to abolish the terms, I just don't want one word to encompass all of these things because it doesn't really matter if a beyblade is surviving with low energy because it's rolling around on the side of its tip without scraping or because it doesn't lose much energy scraping, they both serve the same purpose in spin stealing matchups in particular - using energy more efficiently than the opponent can to keep spinning longer than they do. I just want people to be able to ask 'which of these has the most ____' to find out what can keep spinning at low energy the longest.


As for the OHKO thing, if you check the plastics CC list, you'll see I ended up ditching the misleading OHKO term, adopting Hyper Aggressive Smash Attack AR's instead and merging them with smash attack, because aside from the AR's, there's nothing that doesn't work for Smash Attack that does well with those more violent attack rings (you'd think there'd be a middle ground but I can't find it, I guess because speed helps with recoil control as well as because when you trade off speed you lose a lot of power, so you end up with a more recoily version of a regular smash combo at best).
There is still a distinction, but this is one that actually needs to be made - people need to know that these AR's will need recoil control to work well (which almost always entails Uriel 2's tip, sadly), but they all still use smash attack to do their job.

I'd also point out that even if I still felt OHKO and Smash should be completely separate, that is an entirely different discussion and whether I am being hypocritical or not in no way affects the validity of my argument.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - moomoomonster21 - Jul. 04, 2013

What is the difference between the clear (Japanese I guess) and the solid blue (Hong Kong?) BB-10 stadiums? Then, which BB-10 stadium is better?

Thanks!

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Kai-V - Jul. 04, 2013

(Jul. 04, 2013  9:55 PM)moomoomonster21 Wrote: What is the difference between the clear (Japanese I guess) and the solid blue (Hong Kong?) BB-10 stadiums? Then, which BB-10 stadium is better?

Thanks!

They are essentially the same. I think the paint on the light blue one is basically negligible compared to Hasbro's painted stadiums, so purchase whichever BeyStadium Attack Type you find for the lowest price.

RE: Ask a question, get an answer! #2 - Epic Blader - Jul. 05, 2013

has there been any evidence of a series after zero-g? or is zero-g going to be the last series?