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+--- Thread: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? (/Thread-Clear-Wheels-Can-we-actually-test-them)
Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Yamislayer - Apr. 09, 2011
I just tried to mess around with clear wheels and spent a bunch of time on it, and I came to a conclusion.
While we have many opinions on clear wheels, like bull being the best, i tried myself to test them out and looked for some threads.
the last one was discussing about bull being top tier and testing results were these:
Virgo win rate : 29 wins = 58%
Bull win rate : 21 wins = 42%
since i love virgo clear wheel, the results made me smile, but I started to think that maybe it was not because of virgo cw at all.
so i took 2 mold 2 earth mw, 2 sd bottom, 2 normal faces and 2 df145, one yellow and one red.
tested them out of 30 matches, the results were:
yellow won 17 matches
red won 13 matches
so yeah, yellow df145 is better than the red one
... WAIT, WHAT?
In my opinion, since there are a lot of variable things that can happen (first of all, the shoot.
In second place, the way the beyblade hit the other one at low rotations)
I'ts not possible to test clear wheels at all, unless you obtain significant results like:
testing virgo clear wheel.
taking 2 burn, 145, sd.
one goes with bull, the other goes with virgo.
virgo wins 7-8 matches.
SWAPPING the clear wheels, bull goes where virgo stayed before, and vice-versa.
virgo wins again 7-8 matches.
in that case, if more than one player obtains the same results, there could be a chance that the clear wheel has proven its superiority,
otherwise we should consider that it's quite hard to test clear wheels at all.
we're not machines and our shoot will never be exactly the same
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Kei - Apr. 09, 2011
(Apr. 09, 2011 7:21 PM)Yamislayer Wrote: we're not machines and our shoot will never be exactly the same
QFT
People need to realize this; maybe then they wouldn't conduct ten tests (most of the time not even trying to account for these types of variables, I might add) and then announce their "discovery". Beyblade is much more complicated than that.
A great example of how varied results can be, even for one person is illustrated through my testing of the Libra Wheel's Stamina qualities:
First Set of Results: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Libra-Re-instatement-Discussion--12534?pid=461080#pid461080
Second Set of Results: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Libra-Re-instatement-Discussion--12534?pid=511013#pid511013
Even simply switching between BeyLaunchers and Right Launchers made a difference, for some reason. There's so many variables: the strength with which a Beyblade is launched, the wear on the parts, mold variations, the position it lands in in the Stadium, the angle it lands on, how it collides with the opposing Beyblade based on that angle, and as you mentioned, how they collide with each other at low rotations. The list goes on.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Serotonin - Apr. 09, 2011
Agreed completely with the points you two have made. The physics behind Beyblade is so complex that no one is ever likely to completely understand it all, and a lot of Clear Wheel and mold differences are nearly impossible to prove to have a prominent effect.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - TheLVJ - Apr. 12, 2011
I've been wondering how using specific clear wheels could help counter 230 combos. Any leads?
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Kai-V - Apr. 12, 2011
I should be getting more Beyblades to complete my collection of top-tier parts, and while I agree with most of the points presented in this topic, I am still interested in testing some things personally this summer, as I should have relatively a lot of time.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - OkiBlaze - Apr. 12, 2011
(Apr. 12, 2011 7:35 AM)The LVJ Wrote: I've been wondering how using specific clear wheels could help counter 230 combos. Any leads?
I've heard that the Escolpio CW has some effect, and it's worked a little bit for me.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Cye Kinomiya - Apr. 12, 2011
I really like this thread. It seemed to me that people were forgetting this level of complexity that this game has.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Shabalabadoo - Mar. 16, 2012
Recently, I've been seeing people tout (if that's the correct word) certain Clear Wheels and dismiss Bull and such. I always got the feeling it was very exaggerated.
So today, I did several comparisson tests, and while I didn't record them, it's simple to explain.
I don't have lots of parts, so I first did solo spin tests with Earth Bull 145WD and Earth Aquario 145WD, every part the same except for the Clear Wheel. Within both sets of tests I got a 2 second time variation (which surprised me!), and the two sets' average were only 2 seconds apart.
Next, since we have a lot of Defense/Stamina, I did the same test except with RSF (It's the most consistent Defense Bottom I have
) The result was a 4 second variation within each set, and again, 2 seconds of a difference between the two.I did the exact same combos, but I battled, and switched all the parts except for the Clear Wheel half way through. All ties.
Then it made me think about how big of a percentage the Clear Wheel makes of a combo. Say we are talking about MF-H Death Aquario BD145RDF. (Weights from here)
Total Weight:
4.5 + 43.5 + 3.3 + 8 + 1 = 60.3 grams
Aquario Weight / Total Weight x100% = Percentage
3.3 / 60.3 x100% = 5.5%
Bull Weight / Total Weight x100% = Percentage
3.2 / 69.2 x100% = 5.3%
So the difference between Weight Composition is only 0.2 %. Honestly, wind could make 0.3%.
Now, I know that distribution also is super important. If I weigh myself right now I get 149.4 lbs. 5.5% of that is 8.2 lbs. If I stand on one foot, hold a 8 lb Dumbell in my right hand, and start swinging it in all sorts of directions, it doesn't make me fall over or more fatigued than swinging my arm only in the same way. That's a kinda silly example, but it's the only way I could think of applying it to human beings.
I wish there was a way to test this oh so much godlier distribution difference, and also a way to factor that with weight into some mathematical equation, but I guess we'll have to go by our guts. Honestly though, there's larger than 3.3 grams of weight variations in Metal Wheels.
Yeah so that's why I think it's exaggerated, and my take on Clear Wheels. I'd like opinions from people other than th!nk and Hazel, because, nothing personal, you two seem to be the biggest exaggerators, from my perspective of Clear Wheels. You guys can post too I don't mind at all, I'd just also like other people's opinions who haven't been so keen on the differences.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - th!nk - Mar. 16, 2012
I legitimately get noticeably poorer performance out of a combination when equipped with bull than I do with Aquario, Cancer, or, in Scythe's Case, Kronos. Furthermore, I don't think we can take clear wheels on their own, different MW's balance should be better served by different clear wheels.
My Bulls are heavier than my Aquarios (apparently that is the norm), by the way. My Aquarios have always outperformed my Bulls. It is not to do with weight but the distribution thereof with respect to the metal wheel, and, in some cases, this can make a huge difference. Nonetheless, you are correct in that they are not a big factor, but we do list them, and bull is quite simply not as good as other options.
Given how closely matched Duo and Phantom are, and the number of mirror matches (particularly with Phantom), EVERY factor becomes important to a beyblade. Using a poorer CW can be the difference between a win and a loss. Admittedly, launch strength and technique are far more likely to affect the outcome, but I'd rather have the best chance of winning, I'm sure most others would to.
As for testing it, I believe Arupaeo is working on a contraption to test balance, sooooo...
Also, your request for the two people who you feel most likely to mount an argument against your post is somewhat... Disconcerting...
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Uwik - Mar. 16, 2012
I like Cygnus, simply because it's a beautiful Clar Wheel aesthetically. I like Bull too, because I use the bright pastel turquoise/teal from a light random booster, and it looks nice.
Anyway, they won't make that much of a difference either way, Bull / Aquario / Cancer / Leone / Cygnus / Giraffe / etc...
I choose them for their looks, for the most part.. Unless, I need them to make contacts or whatever.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Pcyborg - Mar. 17, 2012
Among all the parts I have, I find that CWs are the one part which doesnt give a consistent result regardless on whether its tiered or not. It could be godly on a specific combo, but carp on another.
In regards to Yamislayer's DF145 encounter, thats exactly what I am facing in terms of CW selection... I can have 5 Aquarios and 3 Bull CW, but only a single Aquario CW seems to be "good" on Basalt 230 combo but carp on Hell BD145... I just dont get it.
At this point, I'm simply just using whatever CW I feel (and tested) which seems to work great on a particular combo and it stays there.
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2012
Beyhyperkiller was doing some tests today. The second one was only 10 tests, but it's a marked enough difference, and it reinforces everything I've seen, at least on phantom, that CW's can be tested and make a big difference in some cases (not that the OP fully disagrees with that at all, haha):
Phantom Aquario: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Duo-Aquario-230-MB?pid=932044#pid932044
Phantom Cancer: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-MF-H-Duo-Aquario-230-MB?pid=932052#pid932052
That's a 70% improvement. Even if phantom lost twice as much after another 10 rounds, it would still be a 60% improvement, in fact, if 10 more rounds were done and it lost them all, it would still have quadrupled it's win percentage.
Update: BeyHyperKiller PM'd me these solo spin tests, very telling!
BeyHyperKiLLer Wrote:I decided to do some solo spin testing and this is what i got:
Standard Procedure
[*] MFB Attack Stadium
[*] Beylauncher LR
[*] 3-Segment Launcher Grip
[*] 100% Power
[*] WD's MINT
Phantom Cancer AD145 WD (MINT)
00:05:59.07
00:05:57.92
00:05:52.23
Phantom Aquario AD145 WD (MINT)
00:04:11.23
00:04:03.71
00:04:01.96
Very peculiar! Clear Wheels really do make a difference, well in Phantom's case. There is a very, very big difference here, almost 2 minutes difference due to the change of CW's. Cancer seemed to be more stable and had less movement, also when Cancer did start wobbling, it was about 4 and a half minutes through, so it stopped spinning about a minute and 20 seconds later. Where as Aquario didn't look as stable and starting wobbling at about 3 and a half minutes through so it stopped spinning about 30 seconds later.
So yeah, almost 2 minutes difference...
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - Shabalabadoo - Apr. 04, 2012
Haha, I love it! I have absolutely no idea why I never get any difference, haha. Maybe it has to do with certain metal wheels and the ones I used didn't allow a huge change?
RE: Clear Wheels: Can we actually test them? - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2012
Yeah, the difference can be more/less marked depending what wheel you use, for example, in my tests of MF-H Duo Aquario/Cancer 230MB vs MF-F Phantom Cancer 230D, using Cancer on Duo only gave a 20% improvement.