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+--- Thread: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables (/Thread-Tier-Vs-Skill-The-Constantly-Confusing-Variables)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bey Brad - Mar. 11, 2011
(Mar. 09, 2011 3:11 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Then how come you've won the last couple of tournaments while she hasn't placed?
Hasn't Dani publicly stated she can't perform this technique with MFB yet? That said, while Dani's technique is amazing, she has consistency issues with launching IMO.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 11, 2011
(Mar. 11, 2011 5:16 PM)Bey Brad Wrote:(Mar. 09, 2011 3:11 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Then how come you've won the last couple of tournaments while she hasn't placed?
Hasn't Dani publicly stated she can't perform this technique with MFB yet? That said, while Dani's technique is amazing, she has consistency issues with launching IMO.
Thank you for also acknowledging that. I had a hard time getting people to understand this. She has to work on it with the current format but atm, she has it down pretty well now.
(Mar. 11, 2011 4:29 PM)neoknux_009 Wrote: right... but wouldnt an easy counter to Deikailos launch be to just launch your blade rapidlly to the side at the last second, or hit a wall and bounce back to avoid it?
Um, NO. What you arent understanding is, there is no way to go at the last second. When the judge says 3,2,1 Go Shoot, within the word shoot, you have to launch. With that said, since the judge wont say it slow, and since she launches within the last few letters of the word, if you launch late, she could easily hit you head on. If you go early, now she has a chance to quickly aim and KO the opponent. It sounds complicated and odd but she has been doing this for a while so she knows just when and how to make it work.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - neoknux_009 - Mar. 12, 2011
(Mar. 11, 2011 5:26 PM)Bluezee Wrote:(Mar. 11, 2011 4:29 PM)neoknux_009 Wrote: right... but wouldnt an easy counter to Deikailos launch be to just launch your blade rapidlly to the side at the last second, or hit a wall and bounce back to avoid it?
Um, NO. What you arent understanding is, there is no way to go at the last second. When the judge says 3,2,1 Go Shoot, within the word shoot, you have to launch. With that said, since the judge wont say it slow, and since she launches within the last few letters of the word, if you launch late, she could easily hit you head on. If you go early, now she has a chance to quickly aim and KO the opponent. It sounds complicated and odd but she has been doing this for a while so she knows just when and how to make it work.
hmmm. right, so im (was) assuming Deikailo has a greater chance of KOing if i shoot early. But if i were to verse, and surely if other skilled players were to verse, then we could simply NOT launch early relative to the OHKOing opponenet, in the same way that he/she wants you the launch early yourself.
But like i was saying before, all you have to do is fake a straight launch at 3 2 1, then at Shoot, catapult it at a completely random angle. This can be either toward the rim or a wall. and yeah dont launch early.
Another easy strat is to just launch your bey like a foot high over the stadium. A basic steady straight shot will land your bey safely in the stadium. If this is the case the opponenet is forced to be at your height, which makes it much more difficult. Even if this is the case, all you have to do is launch higher.
And once again the reason i continue to doubt that any player is at that level atm is simply because i have never seen OHKO competitor versing a decent player who actually is trying to avoid the OHKO, succeed at a high consistant rate.
In my concern, OHKO can be sucessful against opponents who are new and dont know about it, but not against mroe knowledgable componenets.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 12, 2011
But what I was getting at the most is that the combo does not take down the top tier. It's her launch.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Gibraltor - Mar. 12, 2011
This is really super dumb to be bashing a person's "launch technique", do you guys even realize how stupid it sounds that you've gone for two pages talking about a single person's launch technique when this thread is about Skill vs Tier.
I try to say something that progresses the topic, and you guys jump back to the other thing. If you have a problem with this person, then please take it up with her personally. Talking about her like she's meat in the window is not right, I don't care if she set herself up for it
Back to the topic at HAND!!
Skill can mean something in the sense of the condition your tip is in and how you use it, using a sliding technique, and the power you launch your beyblade in conjection with the 3 things I just mentioned.
It also takes skill/knowledge to know how well certain beyblade parts work well together, which is synergy.
Tier lists only touches a small part on synergy as in no one has tried every single combo against every single combo(just not fathomable) to really know how well it applies.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Arkger176 - Mar. 12, 2011
really, it comes down to ur combos, launching, and well...luck!
plus heres some parts i think with the rite parts could be epic:
Quake
Rock
T125
Galaxy
comment on what u think could be great in combos
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 13, 2011
(Mar. 08, 2011 6:17 PM)Bey Brad Wrote: Just checking in to say that it is pretty awesome, you don't know what you're talking about here. As someone who lost to it several times and didn't even see it happen, I was impressed. It's impossible to protect against this technique if you don't see it coming. If she adapts it for MFB everyone is in a world of hurt.Wow, you were the last person I thought would jump in and defend that. Thanks, I appreciate that comment.
(Mar. 09, 2011 3:11 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Then how come you've won the last couple of tournaments while she hasn't placed?Like Brad said, I haven't adapted it to MFB. He also saw me play during Beyblade War Room and I couldn't get the technique down before hand.
Since I'm back on Long Island full time, I have absolutely no one to practice with. This technique took a while for me to master with plastics and because of the nature of the prongs of MFB launchers, it drops differently. I'd have to have someone stay at my home for like, two days just launching beyblades. Not to say I can't do it, but all the practice I get is at tournaments. Cye, when do I play during the tournaments I host?
But Bluezee has the right idea that my current combo would be ideal for gattyaki because of its mass and weight.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 13, 2011
I am so glad you finally posted. I was getting quite annoyed by people not understanding. I feel that in the upcoming tournament, I will judge more so you can get more free time to practice. I want you to get the shot down to a science so I can face you in the final match. It has been a while.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 13, 2011
I won't have time. I'll probably be okay for Cye's tournament if I can practice at your place before the tournament in Jersey
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 13, 2011
(Mar. 13, 2011 12:13 AM)Deikailo Wrote: I won't have time. I'll probably be okay for Cye's tournament if I can practice at your place before the tournament in Jersey
I would love for you to come and practice here. I really want you to get the launch perfect show you can show a true example of why skill is so important in this game and to see you excel beyond where you are now. I love battling you. I enjoy it even more when you battle with all you have. It's so unpredictable. Besides, it would be great to shut a lot of people here up.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - BladeStorm - Mar. 13, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 4:41 AM)Bluezee Wrote: there is no guarantee like MF-H Earth Aquario 85WD defeating MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS(Mint) consistent with either Gattayaki or destabilization from hitting the 230 track during the launch, leaving it off balance.
Give it a thought and reply.
I think the discrepancies in CS behaviour can change the match. Any variation in tip such as agressive or passive CS, condition of heavy duty tips such as Rubber series like RF or Defense series like WD.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 13, 2011
At least at anything I attended, you entered as well. Also, I'd like to again point out how well aware I am of this launch's effectiveness. What I was initially addressing was the combo, but I guess I digressed.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 13, 2011
Along with trying to pay attention to everything around me, figuring out times and keeping tabs on the progressing battles around me, and just overall having a lot on my mind, I haven't entered a tournament with a clear head since Beyblade War Room.
At the last tournament, I could have beat Beystrategist if I had practiced using Meteo L Drago correctly and tested tracks. I never have time to free battle. In the last tournament we both attended, I had what, 5 battles? You can't teach yourself much in five matches. I will confess I rarely test my combos because whenever I shoot at full strength, I naturally aim for the Beyblade I already launched in the center because I can't seem to aim at anything else.
I think if I beat Beystrategist, I could have beat Bluezee only because he uses the same damn combo.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 13, 2011
I keep mentioning how I am talking about the combo, not the launch.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Ozzy - Mar. 14, 2011
I have been blading for years with Bluezee and Karice(Spin-Sonic) and I can honestly say that our team is based primarily on skill rather than knowledge of top-tier combos or matchups. We always did what we knew best: play and win with our own launch techniques or ones we learned from others. To this day, even with my knowledge of combo, tiers, etc., I still do not use top-tier beyblades as my most trusted combos that I would look to for success. Skill has everything to do with this game. I believe that with the right launching technique and a combo that works specifically for the launch you use most, you can defeat any combo. Most people are used to saying, "you can not beat (whatever)__230cs with something like Rock Aquario 105F" but what happens when you're wrong and a person is using a launch that takes down the combo and still has spin left to spare? I have Bluezee try this all the time and the Rock Aquario 105F that I use takes down MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS almost everytime. We get a kick out of shutting down top-tier combos. Just because we have the parts to make all these top-tier combos does not mean that we resort to using them when skill overpowers them.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Spin-Sonic - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 3:56 AM)Ozzy Wrote: I have been blading for years with Bluezee and Karice(Spin-Sonic) and I can honestly say that our team is based primarily on skill rather than knowledge of top-tier combos or matchups. We always did what we knew best: play and win with our own launch techniques or ones we learned from others. To this day, even with my knowledge of combo, tiers, etc., I still do not use top-tier beyblades as my most trusted combos that I would look to for success. Skill has everything to do with this game. I believe that with the right launching technique and a combo that works specifically for the launch you use most, you can defeat any combo. Most people are used to saying, "you can not beat (whatever)__230cs with something like Rock Aquario 105F" but what happens when you're wrong and a person is using a launch that takes down the combo and still has spin left to spare? I have Bluezee try this all the time and the Rock Aquario 105F that I use takes down MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS almost everytime. We get a kick out of shutting down top-tier combos. Just because we have the parts to make all these top-tier combos does not mean that we resort to using them when skill overpowers them.
I absolutely agree. I, for one, HATE using top-tier combos. I purposely avoid using them so when I defeat them with something that is supposedly "outclassed" or not top-tier, it makes the satisfaction so much sweeter. I have always launched my own way. After years of practicing with you and Bluezee, I have perfected it. It's been complete for quite a while though lol. Skill is the most important part of this game. With no skill, you will lose everytime. I would say more but I believe you and Bluezee covered all I wanted to say.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
So the gang is all here for the most part huh lol? Thanks for the support you guys. I wish my video camera would work so we could show for all of this. I think I will just go out and get another one tomorrow. I feel we have something to prove here. Skill defeats tier. Bottom line. I don't know how else to put it.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 14, 2011
But then why do almost only top-tier combinations win in our tournaments ? Nobody else has skill ? Even Bluezee used Earth () 85WD once as far as I know, which is top-tier.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 14, 2011
Yeah, that amazes me that no one in new york tries to counter that combo to beat him. I could totally own that combo if I ever was paired up with bluezee for a battle
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:21 AM)Kai-V Wrote: But then why do almost only top-tier combinations win in our tournaments ? Nobody else has skill ? Even Bluezee used Earth () 85WD once as far as I know, which is top-tier.
To be fair and honest, I only use that combo for testing and because I already know what the tournament scene would be like. Naturally, I use attackers with extremely high amounts of recoil. You know, the one that are seen as unreliable or inconsistent or just too dangerous to use. I have always played like that.
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:25 AM)Deikailo Wrote: Yeah, that amazes me that no one in new york tries to counter that combo to beat him. I could totally own that combo if I ever was paired up with bluezee for a battle
I think they don't try because they think its either impossible OR it could be because I launch in such a way to make my WD move like an attack tip so you can't touch it until its too late. I like your thinking. I would more than likely not use that combo against you considering you use a top-tier killer but I am quite curious to see what would happen. Care to find out if your statement is true
?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Ozzy - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:21 AM)Kai-V Wrote: But then why do almost only top-tier combinations win in our tournaments ? Nobody else has skill ? Even Bluezee used Earth () 85WD once as far as I know, which is top-tier.
I would say only top-tier combos win in those tournaments because that is all that is played. No one tries to venture out of their usual comfort zone and try something new so they spend countless hours trying to imitate others and their combos which make the tournament extremely boring because you see the same combos OVER AND OVER. Mirror matches should not even happen but they do because people are stuck in one state of mind. If they had skill, they would not have to do that. I'm down with the whole "play to win" idea but if you're going to win, do it in your own way. Don't keep copying someone else or having the same combo set as someone else the whole time. Use your own style and special combos that work great for you so when you win, you will feel much more satisfaction to know that you took out something that was supposed to beat you. When the odds are supposed to be against you, it feels great when you beat the odds and you beat someone that resorted to using top-tiers rather than their own skill.
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:25 AM)Deikailo Wrote: Yeah, that amazes me that no one in new york tries to counter that combo to beat him. I could totally own that combo if I ever was paired up with bluezee for a battle
I also wonder why they don't try to counter it. He never uses that combo against us. Karice and I kill it just about 90% of the time.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 14, 2011
That is not true. In this topic, it was mentioned by Bluezee I think that top-tier combinations had faced and lost against "unorthodox" customizations in tournaments, and this is what made you all question whether top-tier meant anything. Well yes, I am very sure that "unorthodox" combinations were used in all the other tournaments as well, they just did not get far.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Spin-Sonic - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:50 AM)Kai-V Wrote: That is not true. In this topic, it was mentioned by Bluezee I think that top-tier combinations had faced and lost against "unorthodox" customizations in tournaments, and this is what made you all question whether top-tier meant anything. Well yes, I am very sure that "unorthodox" combinations were used in all the other tournaments as well, they just did not get far.
I can tell you EXACTLY why they did not get far. People that used them did not analyze how they work and what ways to launch they so they can be successful in some way. This does not mean that EVERY combo will have some sort of success but for the most part, most will. They need to learn what makes the combo tick, when to use it, and what it can be used against. Without that knowledge, they can not possibly expect to win.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - TylerPT - Mar. 14, 2011
I agree 90%
Cuz it does depend on a skilled blader, i mean, if u just beybladed, and some1 gave u a top tier bey, u wuld lose, any1 agree?
But like, it still depends on tier as well. I mean, if you used dark wolf 105/135Q and you're a skilled blader, what r the chances on winning 3 points FIRST?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 14, 2011
So what combinations were used to win in the top three at the latest New York tournaments ?