Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread

Shortening because tl;dr (Click to View)

Well, yeah, of course the LBs and High-stage hitters, ie Amon and stuff that tends to go high numbers like 30k+ (anything beyond Stage 3) are often used to get rid of them. They apply the necessary pressure to make your opponent screw up and eventually take a hit. Just that some are more optimal than others because of consistency (back to the Ezel and Garmore argument). PGs are ace-in-the-hole guards, which is why 4 is often the most required cards in a deck and has to be run at maximum. Mostly because if you run less, the chances of you being able to defend a "final attack" dwindle and you'll lose. If you run max, you maximize the chances of you being able to defend a "final attack" and make a turn around. Seriously, just give it a try. Play a number of games against yourself using two decks, and every 5-10 or so games, adding or subtract a PG and you'll notice a difference.

You realize that the community of V-Mundi speaks in statistics, not in luck or whatever. It's...a science thing that even I can't grasp because I'm not that well-off in mathematics. But it's the same thing with, say, poker or black jack or games that require chance, which can be calculated and mastered.

And reguarding Crossrides, keep in mind, she is very selective. She even covered Great Daiyusha because Dimension Police balances the whole Crossride thing, relying solely on Vanguard power than RG power. Also, another thing we of V-Mundi tend to believe is that Crossrides breed bad players, which is people who tend to flock to the "overpowered" and "broken cards" (ie MLB, whose price has been strangely decreasing, and DOTE) because of power creep, and that they spend so much money on cards they either can't control or play properly, and then they'll trade it off because it was a waste. It's offsetting.

I mean, you-do-you if you wanna play DOTE, but don't just rush in without knowing how to maximize its full potential. Hell, even I would play DOTE if I had the money to (because, come on, playing with people fairly is fun, but realistically, I can't go to locals as I am). DOTE isn't an end-all VG if you just solely rely on him. If you rely on Draws because "oh, get DOTE faster for faster kill because DOTE is broken", that's already a problem. Then what, you get DOTE out, and you can CB2 + PB for his standing effect. Yeah, people WILL want to guard a Stage 3 monstrosity and keep him from hitting (did you know he doesn't even have to hit an RG to whack off his effect?), because restanding will be a pain and will screw you up even more. It's the same with Dragonic Descendant, a not-Crossride but essentially a DOTE look-a-like, except the attack shouldn't hit in order for the effect to go off, thus applying super pressure across the board.

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I think to me, as not a V-Mundi member (even though I am, but I'm speaking as myself right now), that broken cards are the cards that pretty much ensure instant win with little choice to defend. When played right. You can have broken cards and still lose because you don't know how to use them right. Which is how I feel the majority of the meta is because they flock to the idea of brokeness, but you can have the strongest weapon in the galaxy and still not be able to kill a single enemy (or kill everything not intended to be killed) if you can't control it.

Now, you don't have to listen to me, and you're free to call me out on my argument and say that I'm wrong. I'm pretty low in the V-Mundi community in terms of intelligence, but this is pretty much how I summed up my experience in the community. You guys are free to believe what you want, but I just want to ask if you guys keep your minds open. I'm willing to if the logic and argument makes sense, but I just don't believe in "anecdotes".

Explaining the brokeness of 13k (Click to View)

What makes Crossrides broken in the first place is the 13k defensive. Now, thinking, "Oh, 2k extra power isn't that much of a difference." I used to say the same about 1k extra power difference between 10k and 11k. But here's how it works:

10k vs 11k may not seem like much, but defensively, it changes the number of guards. We base guards by stages, which is defined as every 5k power against the attacker/defender. Each stage is range from a 0k difference to a 4k differnence. For example, if I were to face Dragonic Lawkeeper without LB against a 10k VG, that's a 0k difference, so Stage 1. If I were to boost with, say, Bahr to 18k, that's a 2 Stage attack because it broke beyond the 4k boundary to a 5k-9k difference. If I were to LB, Lawkeeper would become a 13k offensive his attack, and say boosted by Raopia for 10k, the total becomes a 23k power. Against a 10k Vanguard, that is a Stage 3 difference.

Now switching the numbers, if I were to use Bahr as a boost for a total of 21k, that's still a Stage 3 difference. But what if I was facing a 11k VG, say Dragonic Overlord? Let's change the units: Dual Axe Archdragon post Lawkeeper's LB with a 7k booster. That equals 20k; vs an 11k, that's a 9k difference, so only a 2 Stage Guard is required (so them dropping a 10k guard is easy enough). But if I had used Bahr instead of the 7k booster, then I can hit for 21k, making it a Stage three difference and forcing them two drop two 10ks, three 5ks, or a 10k and a 5k guard. Anything Stage 3 and above often requires a high number of guards or a PG, and when fighting decks that often "break the limit" (not Limit Break), the more PGs the better. IE, Amon and it's ungodly numbers...

Now to why we think it's broken. The 13k meta doesn't worry much about pressure because 13ks are tanks. They easily make attacks from the opponent drop one guard stage, apply little to no pressure. A majority of the English game is mainly 11k, but 13ks are pretty much the flock-to because it makes games easier for the player using the 13k vs the opponent using not-13k who has to work a little harder to win (and those odds begin to dwindle). And we all know how much everyone likes having easy wins.

The only way that makes the Crossrides unbroken is to not use the unit that gives them that extra defensive. That then dwindles them to an 11k VG. The only except in Alice's eyes is /Ultimate Dimensional Robo, Great Daiyusha/, because Dimension Police focuses primarily on the VG power rather than RG power. Everything is to support the VG, so she thinks Crossrides seem to fit here the most. For more information about Great Daiyusha, read this. However, when playing with Crossrides, it is imperative to play with the required card(s) because 13k defensive.