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+---- Thread: Are we giving Defense any justice? (/Thread-Are-we-giving-Defense-any-justice)
Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
I was goofing around today with MF-F Lightning LDrago CH120XF and used LTDC's (Which I believe is its weakness right now. :V).
Anyway, point is, I was launching MF-H Earth Cancer 85WB (the LTDC) in a sliding/banking type shot, and it was getting seriously good results. I delved a little further, using RF customs and found a major shift in how it did;
vs. XF Results (Click to View)
vs. RF Results (Click to View)
With CS Results (Click to View)
Bluezee's (Click to View)
Okay, my point here is that I think we should do something about the way we shoot our defense types. I can do more tests when my packages come, but the gist is here, and you are getting it. I mean, look at the difference in results from what your used to, and a little change in shooting technique!
I hope I do not step on too many toes here, haha, but honestly.. :V
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Nojo294 - Feb. 07, 2011
Perfect analysis Dan. THe fact that you are using WB increased your win rates IMO. WB offers way more movement than any of the other top tier defense bottoms (except for CS in a worn state) so it would retain a semi- flower pattern and then move to the center. XF loses its flower pattern easily so the chances of a critical hit to the LTSC was very low. By the time it does make contact, the power is lost.
This is all theory BTW was my prediction correct?
EDIT:
would you like tests done with traditional defence combo's + banking/sliding shoot or with LTSC's...
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Byser - Feb. 07, 2011
Was the LTDC winning by dodging long enough so the Attack combo couldn't hit at its strongest, like CS, or was it just taking hits better?
Do you have any particular tests in mind once your packages arrive?
EDIT: I'm open to doing tests as well.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Hov - Feb. 07, 2011
Do you mind if I post my test with Bull transparent wheel here?
I would love to contribute to this thread. But I don't have 85Track.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - lord Wolfblade - Feb. 07, 2011
i always wondered why we are supposed to launch WB at 70-80% power, i find if you launch WB at 100% with a bank it can dodge attack types (like what dan did), where at 70-80% power WB is in the middle making it very easy to hit with sliding shoot, like a "sitting duck"
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Kai-V - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 2:21 AM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: i always wondered why we are supposed to launch WB at 70-80% power, i find if you launch WB at 100% with a bank it can dodge attack types (like what dan did), where at 70-80% power WB is in the middle making it very easy to hit with sliding shoot, like a "sitting duck"
Because is Defense really supposed to move around, instead of properly taking hits ...
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - lord Wolfblade - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 2:38 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Feb. 07, 2011 2:21 AM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: i always wondered why we are supposed to launch WB at 70-80% power, i find if you launch WB at 100% with a bank it can dodge attack types (like what dan did), where at 70-80% power WB is in the middle making it very easy to hit with sliding shoot, like a "sitting duck"
Because is Defense really supposed to move around, instead of properly taking hits ...
who says that a defence shouldnt be able to dodge and take hits at the same time (RSF and CS any one?)... <- offtopic?
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 2:38 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Because is Defense really supposed to move around, instead of properly taking hits ...
Both? I mean the state the defense section is in need of help, with all the attack domination. Okay, you guys are sort of taking this into and evasion tactic, but if you saw what I saw, it moving, but still takes numerous hard hits, even making Lightning LDrago bounce/Knocking out. I am not saying we should make them move and do their best to not be hit, that wouldn't be the definition of a defensive beyblade, it would be one of an escapist one.. haha.
And yes to all testing offers.
I shot the defensive bey, making it more versatile and capable than usual.
Nojo:
No, actually I shoot XF into the middle through tilting it, and it gives great hits, but Earth is actually knocking it out as XF rarely pays heed to the ridges. LTDC* bro. and both types please.
Byser:
230, BD145 tests and I got a new CS tip for the tournament..
I think I will refrain from testing with CS as I'm fearful of a bout with Kei's 230 combo and mine so I want the upper hand stamina wise, haha.
Anime:
Use 90 and 100.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Shabalabadoo - Feb. 07, 2011
Dan, do you think the same would happen if you were using [x]125 or [x]145 in the Defence combo?
Launching skill is so important in beyblade. If you don't have technique and skill, its like shooting a gun with your eyes closed; it ain't gunna work.
very great tests though!
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
Actually yeah, I get better results with C145 too. Though that was just formal.
I can test proper 145's when my package comes but yeah I believe the same goes.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Gibraltor - Feb. 07, 2011
I've not seen the term LTDC used, can someone please enlighten me?
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
Low Track Defense Custom.
I so want Diamond to post.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Shabalabadoo - Feb. 07, 2011
It stands for
Low track Defence combo
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Gibraltor - Feb. 07, 2011
Thanks guys!
EDIT: Ok, so actually I think this makes a lot of sense. Something with no momentum is more likely to give into a smash attack rather than if the defensive bey meets the attacker head on.
Now this type of deal I did learn in physics.
Point A. is the defensive bey and point B. is the attacking one.
Energy will transfer from the object doing the pushing to the one that is not. Therefor Point B hitting a stationary point A will transfer all its energy to point A.
If point B is smashing into point A coming against it then the one with the most energy will transfer its energy to the opposing bey.
Where this gets sticky is that if point B is attacking point A, and they are both moving the same direction then point B now has a chance to move point A further than it would have.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
Results Added.
Gibraltor, yes that is what happens. Good thinking.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - lord Wolfblade - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 3:10 AM)Dan Wrote:(Feb. 07, 2011 2:38 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Because is Defense really supposed to move around, instead of properly taking hits ...Okay, you guys are sort of taking this into and evasion tactic,
but if you saw what I saw, it moving, but still takes numerous hard hits
I am not saying we should make them move and do their best to not be hit, that wouldn't be the definition of a defensive beyblade, it would be one of an escapist one.. haha.
(Feb. 07, 2011 2:58 AM)lord Wolfblade Wrote: who says that a defence shouldnt be able to dodge and take hits at the same time (RSF and CS any one?)... <- offtopic?
:\
well thanks for the testing, i cant wait for more
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
When I wrote that, it was before you edited it by releasing the scratch 'marks'. Since it was scratched out then, I thought I should disregard it so don't edit it and try to doop me.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Shabalabadoo - Feb. 07, 2011
Oh sheez Louise, those cs results are amazing.
Mang, now this game is getting more complicated-
Mf L l drago ch145 rf beats 230 defense
mf L l drago ch120 rf beats 145 defense
Mf l l drago ch120 loses to 100 and lower defense.
I wonder how A MLD attack combo does against this...
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Gibraltor - Feb. 07, 2011
Since it won't be a double post now.
(earlier edit)EDIT 2: Just a little pictorial guidance. From here on out.
N=Newtons is the unit for force
Point A=Attack
Point B=Defense
Point A-->Point B= Point B pushed
55N --> 0N = 55N -->
Point A--><--Point B= Point A pushed
55N --><--65N = <--10N
Point A--> Point B-->= Point B pushed
55N --> 40N--> = 95N-->
(By no means is that actual force measurement, just random numbers to give the right idea)
Of course now metal on metal contact points come into effect also, but in the perfect world this is what's happening.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - KaizerMFB - Feb. 07, 2011
[Spoiler/] Reserved for testing space. [Spoiler/]
How do i spoiler?
srry for noob question.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
Gibraltor; Do not worry. Your text was coherent and understandable. No need to over indulge yourself in the idea. haha.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - lord Wolfblade - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 4:09 AM)Dan Wrote: When I wrote that, it was before you edited it by releasing the scratch 'marks'. Since it was scratched out then, I thought I should disregard it so don't edit it and try to doop me.
actually right after i scratched it i said "opps why did i scratch it" before i saw your post, sorry for the mix up <- offtopic
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Dan - Feb. 07, 2011
It is all good don't worry. I just don't want too many conversations here unless it involves the topic at hand.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - Gibraltor - Feb. 07, 2011
(Feb. 07, 2011 4:13 AM)Dan Wrote: Gibraltor; Do not worry. Your text was coherent and understandable. No need to over indulge yourself in the idea. haha.
Haha, I like having the Physics knowledge for once so I felt no trouble adding it xD.
Basically I learned nothing about rotational physics, but I can tell you all you need to know about energy/heat transfer and projectile motion lol.
RE: Are we giving Defense any justice? - lord Wolfblade - Feb. 07, 2011
hmm can you test with RSF? or just plain old SF?
it may work (SF most likely wont)