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Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 28, 2010
So anyways, I got bored again so I got thinking.
We like tall stamina tracks
Many asians (particularly koreans) like low stamina tracks.
It seems as if a narrower stamina wheel such as Earth would benefit from a lower/mid height track. Because of how narrow Earth is, when placed upon a tall track it may encounter balance issues and odd wobbling patters, its center of gravity would also be off, and might just cause it too tip over, whereas on a low track it would be more central and balanced. Try spinning a toothpick, it doesn't work.
However some wheels, like Flame and Burn, are wide enough to be used to maximum effectiveness on a taller track such as 145. They are wide enough to keep their center of gravity on a tall track, even after they begin to wobble.
SD seems more conuctive to a shorter tracks success, where as WD seems more suited for taller tracks (This is the part I am least sure about).
NOTE: This is totally just a thought and in no way is fact. I have no testing or backing for this, it is just an idea.
I'm probably wrong, but I figured it was worth posting.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Pyro - Sep. 28, 2010
Haha at the the third line.
It's funny though, I'm asian and I like low stamina tracks.
Everything you have said in your OP, I agree with completey :3
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - kngoftherng - Sep. 28, 2010
I agree with what you're posting. I'm sure people will test out combos to see if this is actually true. If they don't then I will personally do it to check.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Nojo294 - Sep. 28, 2010
Rofl I'm korean and I like lower tracks
But Yah I agree with your OP it does make sense in theory, however, what if it were like a 85WD? it would not have enough space to wobble...
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - LeonTempest - Sep. 28, 2010
makes sense to me.
those first lines were funny ha. =D though in my personal expierience, i thought korean's like StarCraft more than anything else? lol sorry. had to do that. my best firend of all time is korean and i garantee he will laugh when i show him this
but seriosly, back on task, what you said about earth is true, as well as burn and flame. it just makes sense
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Blaze Wheeler - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 2:30 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: So anyways, I got bored again so I got thinking.
We like tall stamina tracks
Many asians (particularly koreans) like low stamina tracks.
It seems as if a narrower stamina wheel such as Earth would benefit from a lower/mid height track. Because of how narrow Earth is, when placed upon a tall track it may encounter balance issues and odd wobbling patters, its center of gravity would also be off, and might just cause it too tip over, whereas on a low track it would be more central and balanced. Try spinning a toothpick, it doesn't work.
However some wheels, like Flame and Burn, are wide enough to be used to maximum effectiveness on a taller track such as 145. They are wide enough to keep their center of gravity on a tall track, even after they begin to wobble.
SD seems more conuctive to a shorter tracks success, where as WD seems more suited for taller tracks (This is the part I am least sure about).
NOTE: This is totally just a thought and in no way is fact. I have no testing or backing for this, it is just an idea.
I'm probably wrong, but I figured it was worth posting.
I just tried MF Earth Eagle 105 SD, and it's Spin-time was almost 5 Minutes.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Kai-V - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 2:46 AM)Blaze Wheeler Wrote:What Beystadium, and test it against another Stamina combination, because solo spin time is not that conclusive.
I just tried MF Earth Eagle 105 SD, and it's Spin-time was almost 5 Minutes.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 28, 2010
Well the main point of my OP was mostly relevant to solo spin time, not sure exactly how it would change in-game performance.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Blaze Wheeler - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 2:48 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Sep. 28, 2010 2:46 AM)Blaze Wheeler Wrote:What Beystadium, and test it against another Stamina combination, because solo spin time is not that conclusive.
I just tried MF Earth Eagle 105 SD, and it's Spin-time was almost 5 Minutes.
It was a Solo Spin in a PTW, so I cannot give accurate Battle tests.
Hopefully I'll get a TT Stadium soon.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Kai-V - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 2:50 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Well the main point of my OP was mostly relevant to solo spin time, not sure exactly how it would change in-game performance.Well, it will be interesting if it actually does change real battle results. Otherwise, I am not certain how that will change anything (to the top-tier list for instance), hah. In theory though, Asians are using it in tournaments to win, so it should have some advantage.
It is OK if it improves a Beyblade's stamina, but Beyblade is mostly enjoyed when at least two players battle, not one person on their own, hah.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Diamond - Sep. 28, 2010
I had played around with Burn (Mold 1) Bull 90WD for the past few days and noticed how consistently it wins against Burn (Mold 1)/Earth Bull 145 WD/SD/D.
Although I haven't recorded any extensive test results, I should be able to after I come back from Japan on the 2nd of October (so then I could test PD together as well, haha).
(However, I might be able to post some test results later.)
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 28, 2010
Well, that's just height. It destabilizes it.
When two compacts battle the lower one generally wins, because it knocks the opponent off balance.
Also, lower tracks seem like a detriment against attack types.
So maybe High vs. Opponent Attack, Low vs. Opponent Stamina.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Diamond - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 4:24 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Well, that's just height. It destabilizes it.Hmm, when I use Burn Bull 90WD against Earth Bull 145WD, Burn doesn't really destabilize Earth effectively. Instead, Burn just keeps smashing the underside of the Earth Wheel.
When two compacts battle the lower one generally wins, because it knocks the opponent off balance.
It is pretty much the same thing for Burn Bull 90WD vs Burn Bull 145WD, Burn 90 just keeps smashing the underside of the Burn Wheel but doesn't destabilize effectively.
BTW, Frownie, is this getting a bit off-topic from what you're trying to discuss, or is it okay?
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 28, 2010
Well thats what i meant.
For example:
10b Bistool vs.:
Upper Dragoon
10 Heavy
Neo Right (HMC)
SG Flat
The Upper Dragoon combo knocks bistool so sideways that it floor scrapes. It makes it lose tons of stamina (the sideways angle part). It's like that but less extreme.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Diamond - Sep. 28, 2010
(Sep. 28, 2010 4:53 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: *What I meant was that the taller Stamina combo stays upright and isn't destabilized by the shorter one, so the taller Stamina combo doesn't floor scrape or anything.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 28, 2010
I know, that was just an extreme example.
But it DOES help to push it off center, which contributes to early precession = loss.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Fyuuor - Sep. 28, 2010
I was actually going to post a thread very similar to this in past few days but decided against it. I've already completed quite a few tests regarding this subject, but I still need to perform a few more just for comparisons purposes, I'll post the results of my testing once there completed which should be tomorrow.
Though I do agree that lower track stamina combos consistently defeat traditional DF145/145 combos and that lower track combos should be recognized for they're top-tier qualities.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Fyuuor - Sep. 29, 2010
All test are perfomed in a MFB Attack Stadium;
DF145 As Control:
DF145 track combo launched first;
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull CH140B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull CH120B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull DF145BVS Earth Bull WA130B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull 130B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull D125B
2 - 8; DF145 track win rate 20%
Earth Phoenix DF145B VS Earth Bull T125B
5 - 5; DF145 win track rate 50%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull 105B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull 100B
0 - 10; DF145 track win rate 0%
Earth Bull DF145B VS Earth Bull 90B
10 - 0; DF145 track win rate 100%
100 Track As Control
100 Track combo launched first;
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull 145B
10 - 0; 100 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull CH140B
10 - 0; 100 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull WA130B
10 - 0; 100 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull 130B
10 - 0; 100 track win rate 100%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull D125B
2 - 8; 100 track win rate 20%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull T125B
2 - 8; 100 track win rate 20%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull 105B
5 - 5; 100 track win rate 50%
Earth Bull 100B VS Earth Bull 90B
10 - 0: 100 track win rate 100%
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Diamond - Sep. 29, 2010
Wow, Fyuuor, thanks for doing do many rounds of testing!
Hopefully, this should really get us considering about using low height Stamina combos, haha.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Fyuuor - Sep. 29, 2010
That's cool Diamond, I was surprised on how well the mid range heights performed especially D125 and T125, I was sort of expecting D125 and T125 to be the whipping boy of tracks as it wouldn't be small enough to quite get underneath DF145 while it would still be too high against a lower track.
Guess I was completely wrong
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Mc Frown - Sep. 29, 2010
I thought D125 would be the best, actually.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - RTP49 - Oct. 01, 2010
Although Fyuuor has already conducted extensive battle testing in regards to the effects on a lower track stamina type versus various other stamina types, I figured it would be interesting to see the effects by which the clearance of the wheel affects the Beyblade's ability to retain it's angular kinetic energy. (This is generally translated to mean stamina, spin time!) Although the results of these solo spin tests may or may not be negligible (at the moment I am extremely cynical about these results, frankly), I would say that a Beyblade's ability to retain it's angular kinetic energy is important; especially for stamina types.
I conducted this testing with the hypothesis that a lower track meant a lower center of mass, and in turn better retention of angular kinetic energy. (LONGER SPIN TIMES) Tools used were a TT MFB Attack stadium, a TT Beylauncher, and a Flame Aquila <Insert track/bottom here>. Yes, I understand that Aquila isn't exactly the greatest stamina clear wheel. Flame is generally outclassed by Burn iirc, but we don't have those in the States yet. These were just minor tests to determine the effects that a lower track has on a stamina wheel in general.
Disclaimer: Physics is not exactly my thing. I don't claim to have any sorts of physics expertise whatsoever!
Thinking practically, I had decided to try testing with WD first. These were the first results:
Flame Aquila 90*WD: 2:13:58
Flame Aquila DF145WD: 1:45:55
But in my opinion, there was a bit of destabilization due to in my opinion, bad launching, so I decided to perform the more extensive tests with a Sharp bottom instead. I know that S is extremely easy to destabilize in a competitive situation, but given the subject matter of this testing, S is used simply because it's the best track for keeping a top spinning for as long as possible with minimal inhibition. I left the WD results in anyways.
Initial times:
Flame Aquila 90*S: 3:10:93
Flame Aquila DF145S: 2:53:15
Relaunch #1:
Flame Aquila 90*S: 3:05:00
Flame Aquila DF145S: 2:58:58
Relaunch #2:
Flame Aquila 90*S: 4:05:59
Flame Aquila DF145S: 2:43:54
*I understand that 90 is a relatively hard to find track. I simply chose 90 and DF145 because they (at the time of testing) were the extremes of "short" and "tall" tracks within my possession.
Given these results, I was able to come up with two conclusions:
1. My launches are extremely shoddy and inconsistent
2. Lower tracks probably allow for better angular kinetic energy retention. As seen in the third set of Sharp tip launches, the time differential was wider than a minute, whereas the two previous sets, in which the differences were about 8 seconds or so. With the third set, we can attribute that to questionable launches. The first two however, could probably be further elaborated upon with more extensive testing.
From this, all I can really say is that whether a lower track is beneficial or not depends on the matchup. In Fyuuor's Earth Bull testing, 100B beat DF145B with a 100% win rate, but 90B and 105B received the total opposite. I would also say that a lot of it depends on the wheel. My Flame Aquila/Eagle 90WD tends to win against my (poor American's) MF Earth Leone C145WB custom via outspin because the Flame Wheel squeezes between the C145 and wheel just enough to be able to destabilize it while retaining stamina.
did i seriously write this wall of text what have i done
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - Yamislayer - Oct. 02, 2010
about stamina vs stamina, try VIRGO 90 D or WD can't remember which bottom.
it did good against 145 heights but bad against tracks like d125.
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - OmegaZX - Jan. 20, 2011
I think Low Stamina Beys Makes sense.
._. My best bey is a Flame Wolf 105B and I rarely loose with it so I guess low stamina is pretty good
RE: Track height and its effect on stamina (theory craft) - abhicherath - Jan. 20, 2011
omegazx why did u necro this thread???