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+---- Thread: DF 145... Does it work??? (/Thread-DF-145-Does-it-work)
DF 145... Does it work??? - FrEsH Blader - Jul. 23, 2010
Ok.. Well my brother got a Dark Wolf DF145FS and apperantly the track of this bey creates downforce to stabilize the bey. The four flaps on the track are supposed to suck in air and blow it out through the top of the bey to create a jet of air (thrust like a jet engine) BUT!!!! What i didnt understand was how that "jet of air" was supposed to escape. The reason was the AR is in the way of the air being sucked in. But I still had my doubts so i tested it. I ripped up small peices of paper and put it into Pegasus thunder whip stadium and launched Dark Wolf DF145FS. To my suprise the small peices of paper would be suck in but when it got under the AR the papers would be pushed away.:\ So i began to think that the air being suck in by the DF145 wasn't flowin[/size][/align]g though the top of the bey but hitting the underside of the AR and creating drag. The small peices of papers proved my hypothesis. THE DF145 DOES NOT WORK IN MY OPINION. What do you guys think?
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Diamond - Jul. 23, 2010
The main gimmick of DF145 is not to blow a 'jet of air' out.
It pushes air up and the air pushes it down (causing the Bey itself to be pushed down which stabilizes it slightly). It's air resistance.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - FrEsH Blader - Jul. 23, 2010
(Jul. 23, 2010 7:10 AM)Diamond Wrote: The main gimmick of DF145 is not to blow a 'jet of air' out.where does the up air go then?
It pushes air up and the air pushes it down (causing the Bey itself to be pushed down). It's air resistance.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Nojo294 - Jul. 23, 2010
(Jul. 23, 2010 7:15 AM)FrEsH Blader Wrote:(Jul. 23, 2010 7:10 AM)Diamond Wrote: The main gimmick of DF145 is not to blow a 'jet of air' out.where does the up air go then?
It pushes air up and the air pushes it down (causing the Bey itself to be pushed down). It's air resistance.
Uhh if there was room for the air to escape, it won't create much downward resistance now will it? It's BECAUSE there's no room for the air to escape that it works... (very slightly...) lol.
PHYSICS LESSON COMPLETE!
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Diamond - Jul. 23, 2010
(Jul. 23, 2010 7:15 AM)FrEsH Blader Wrote: where does the up air go then?Through the small gap between the Wheel and the Track.
http://a.imageshack.us/img809/6980/dscf6378.jpg
The air can also escape through the sides. Gas is very 'flexible'.
Also, you do have to understand that Air Molecules are smaller than the thinness of paper.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 23, 2010
(Jul. 23, 2010 7:23 AM)Nojo294 Wrote: Uhh if there was room for the air to escape, it won't create much downward resistance now will it? It's BECAUSE there's no room for the air to escape that it works... (very slightly...) lol.
PHYSICS LESSON COMPLETE!
No actually... if there is no room for the air to escape, that would make it part of a closed system and an internal force, which would not affect the Beyblade as a whole.
Picture a raft with a sail and a portable fan. If the fan is blowing directly into the sail, the raft will not move. If the fan is blowing partly on the sail, and partly not, it will move. This is because it is no longer an internal force, and it is an unbalanced external force which causes movement.
EDIT: Physics lesson complete! =P
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Mc Frown - Jul. 23, 2010
Third thread on this.
It's true, but I don' think your resoning is correct.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - countdudoo - Jul. 23, 2010
There ARE holes in the bottom of the Metal Wheel
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Nojo294 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 23, 2010 7:27 AM)Daegor42 Wrote:(Jul. 23, 2010 7:23 AM)Nojo294 Wrote: Uhh if there was room for the air to escape, it won't create much downward resistance now will it? It's BECAUSE there's no room for the air to escape that it works... (very slightly...) lol.
PHYSICS LESSON COMPLETE!
No actually... if there is no room for the air to escape, that would make it part of a closed system and an internal force, which would not affect the Beyblade as a whole.
Picture a raft with a sail and a portable fan. If the fan is blowing directly into the sail, the raft will not move. If the fan is blowing partly on the sail, and partly not, it will move. This is because it is no longer an internal force, and it is an unbalanced external force which causes movement.
EDIT: Physics lesson complete! =P
yes, but the point is not to create movement but rather for the air molecules to be trapped between the track and fusion wheel. For example, if there was an unbalanced force, (such as air molecules only partly hitting the fusion wheel), there will be less downward resistance that if that space is shut off because the force will have nowhere else to go.
Physics Lesson 2 COMPLETE? LOL
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Diamond - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 3:59 AM)Nojo294 Wrote: yes, but the point is not to create movement but rather for the air molecules to be trapped between the track and fusion wheel.No. The point is to create a downwards movement.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 3:59 AM)Nojo294 Wrote: yes, but the point is not to create movement but rather for the air molecules to be trapped between the track and fusion wheel. For example, if there was an unbalanced force, (such as air molecules only partly hitting the fusion wheel), there will be less downward resistance that if that space is shut off because the force will have nowhere else to go.
Physics Lesson 2 COMPLETE? LOL
Seriously? I get the feeling you don't really know what you're saying.
Air resistance would be greater if it wasn't an internal force. I don't know how you can't understand this. Let's try another image for you. Picture a sealed box. You drop it. Now picture that same box with a magical fan that weighs nothing blowing upwards inside. If you drop it, the air resistance is the same because internal forces do not affect the outside conditions of a closed system.
It is only an external force that can do work on the overall movement of a system. You cannot lift yourself off the ground by pulling your own legs up, even if you can support your own weight.
Maybe it's my fault for saying movement so much. How about this: Air resistance is a force. If the moving air is completely trapped by the Metal wheel, it is an internal force. An internal force does not affect the external state of an object, unless it becomes an external force.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Corey - Jul. 24, 2010
Sided with Daegor on this one.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Nojo294 - Jul. 24, 2010
Oh ok now I understand. So basically if the box were to be completely closed with the fan blowing it would not affect the box as a whole, however if one side (the bottom) was open with the fan blowing upwards the box will lift because of the external air currents drawn in by the fan from the bottom correct?
I apologize as I became confused with force and movement ( which are 2 completely different things I understand) as I am only in IB physics year one right now. I guess I explained wrong because I was trying to explain that air was brought up by the "claws" on DF145 but regarded it as a closed system...
So... To answer this question (and daegor you can correct me on this):
The "claws" on DF145 while spinning with a right rotation will suck air from the bottom of the blade upwards, much like a reversed helicopter propeller. This will not only stabalize the blade but increase friction with the floor of the beystadium as well due to this downward force. Daegor am I missing anything?
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Pimpju - Jul. 24, 2010
I'd say the fins are too small on DF145 to produce anything that would affect the beyblade too heavily. I'd say it's more of the fact that DF145 has more weight spread on the outside without being too heavy, so it increases balance that way.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 6:44 AM)Nojo294 Wrote: The "claws" on DF145 while spinning with a right rotation will suck air from the bottom of the blade upwards, much like a reversed helicopter propeller. This will not only stabalize the blade but increase friction with the floor of the beystadium as well due to this downward force. Daegor am I missing anything?
That's more or less how it's supposed to work theoretically.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - kool-kid9980 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 4:08 AM)Daegor42 Wrote: Seriously? I get the feeling you don't really know what you're saying.
Air resistance would be greater if it wasn't an internal force. I don't know how you can't understand this. Let's try another image for you. Picture a sealed box. You drop it. Now picture that same box with a magical fan that weighs nothing blowing upwards inside. If you drop it, the air resistance is the same because internal forces do not affect the outside conditions of a closed system.
It is only an external force that can do work on the overall movement of a system. You cannot lift yourself off the ground by pulling your own legs up, even if you can support your own weight.
Maybe it's my fault for saying movement so much. How about this: Air resistance is a force. If the moving air is completely trapped by the Metal wheel, it is an internal force. An internal force does not affect the external state of an object, unless it becomes an external force.
That litterally cleared everything up for me o.o
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 2:52 PM)kool-kid9980 Wrote: That litterally cleared everything up for me o.o
Glad I could help. Yay rudimentary physics knowledge!
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Nojo294 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 2:58 PM)Daegor42 Wrote:(Jul. 24, 2010 2:52 PM)kool-kid9980 Wrote: That litterally cleared everything up for me o.o
Glad I could help. Yay rudimentary physics knowledge!
lol physics ftw! never knew beyblading culd be so brain consuming... way back I just thought the harder you pull the ripcord the better your chances lol.
Oh and I used storm pegasis DF145RF and that thing moves FAST! It even KO'ed my Rock Bull ED145WB 3 times IN THE PEGASIS THUNDERWHIP STADIUM! That's saying something... I guess it would require further testing but it seems to provide an effective smash attack,
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 7:44 PM)Nojo294 Wrote: Oh and I used storm pegasis DF145RF and that thing moves FAST! It even KO'ed my Rock Bull ED145WB 3 times IN THE PEGASIS THUNDERWHIP STADIUM! That's saying something... I guess it would require further testing but it seems to provide an effective smash attack,
... Three times out of how many?
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Nojo294 - Jul. 24, 2010
(Jul. 24, 2010 8:04 PM)Daegor42 Wrote:(Jul. 24, 2010 7:44 PM)Nojo294 Wrote: Oh and I used storm pegasis DF145RF and that thing moves FAST! It even KO'ed my Rock Bull ED145WB 3 times IN THE PEGASIS THUNDERWHIP STADIUM! That's saying something... I guess it would require further testing but it seems to provide an effective smash attack,
... Three times out of how many?
five
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Daegor42 - Jul. 24, 2010
That's odd... I'm going to have to test this later.
RE: DF 145... Does it work??? - Mc Frown - Jul. 24, 2010
Huzzah, I might be right again.