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+--- Thread: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables (/Thread-Tier-Vs-Skill-The-Constantly-Confusing-Variables)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Ozzy - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 4:58 AM)Spin-Sonic Wrote:(Mar. 14, 2011 4:50 AM)Kai-V Wrote: That is not true. In this topic, it was mentioned by Bluezee I think that top-tier combinations had faced and lost against "unorthodox" customizations in tournaments, and this is what made you all question whether top-tier meant anything. Well yes, I am very sure that "unorthodox" combinations were used in all the other tournaments as well, they just did not get far.
I can tell you EXACTLY why they did not get far. People that used them did not analyze how they work and what ways to launch they so they can be successful in some way. This does not mean that EVERY combo will have some sort of success but for the most part, most will. They need to learn what makes the combo tick, when to use it, and what it can be used against. Without that knowledge, they can not possibly expect to win.
Stop reading my mind boy lol. To add on to this though, I would like to say that utilizing the stadium to your advantage would also be a good idea. Even though it seems like it serves as simply a play area, it can be used to aid in your combo's effectiveness. There are three walls that could easily be used for bouncing your beyblade off of and having it slam into the opponent with proper timing. Using everything around you as a weapon. It's a basic tactic for survival and could easily be applied to this game with enough practice.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:00 AM)Kai-V Wrote: So what combinations were used to win in the top three at the latest New York tournaments ?
That depends on which one you are interested in knowing about specifically. If you want to know about the last one, the combos were(I might as well share mine since I dont intend on using it again. It was an extremely boring combo):
1st Place: Flame Aquario 230WD
2nd Place: MF-H Earth Bull 100SD
3rd Place: MF Thermal Serpent SW145SD
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 14, 2011
So everything essentially top-tier except that third place ...
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:12 AM)Kai-V Wrote: So everything essentially top-tier except that third place ...
To be honest, that third place would have easily made 2nd Place if it were not for the player's early launches that made him lose two matches due to not following the rules of launching. I think he got nervous. As I stated before though, I only use these combos because I already know what to look forward to, Stamina vs. Stamina. Very few people can launch like I can so I already knew that most would not be able to take down 230 with low combos. If I could go back and do it over though, I would have used one of my attackers because that match was completely one sided and rather boring with just stamina.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cyber Blader - Mar. 14, 2011
To be honest, at the past tournament I saw more unorthodox beyblades them I saw top-tier. Heck, I even used used a Fury combo and I only lost 2-3 (free play).
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:27 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote: To be honest, at the past tournament I saw more unorthodox beyblades them I saw top-tier. Heck, I even used used a Fury combo and I only lost 2-3 (free play).
I agree. You actually played quite well. With a little more training, you would be great.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 14, 2011
Just by the way, what tells you that you do not not know how to effectively use the top-tier combinations, hah ? This is a double-sided question.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:31 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Just by the way, what tells you that you do not not know how to effectively use the top-tier combinations, hah ? This is a double-sided question.
That depends on which combo you speak of. All you have to do with a stamina combo is launch your hardest and watch. I use a different technique but the average blader only has to shoot and watch they bey spin and remain still like a sitting duck. There is almost no way to not use Earth_85WD effectively if you just shoot and watch.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cyber Blader - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:28 AM)Bluezee Wrote:(Mar. 14, 2011 5:27 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote: To be honest, at the past tournament I saw more unorthodox beyblades them I saw top-tier. Heck, I even used used a Fury combo and I only lost 2-3 (free play).
I agree. You actually played quite well. With a little more training, you would be great.
Thanks a lot. I plan on using a new combo on the 27th to prove that tier doesn't matter.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Otsu - Mar. 14, 2011
bluezee, taking requests on what combo you should use? :p
i wanna see you win with mf lightning l-drago ch120rf/r²f
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 6:08 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote:(Mar. 14, 2011 5:28 AM)Bluezee Wrote:(Mar. 14, 2011 5:27 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote: To be honest, at the past tournament I saw more unorthodox beyblades them I saw top-tier. Heck, I even used used a Fury combo and I only lost 2-3 (free play).
I agree. You actually played quite well. With a little more training, you would be great.
Thanks a lot. I plan on using a new combo on the 27th to prove that tier doesn't matter.
That's the spirit. Good luck with that. I will help if you need me to.
(Mar. 14, 2011 6:34 AM)Otsu Wrote: bluezee, taking requests on what combo you should use? :p
i wanna see you win with mf lightning l-drago ch120rf/r²f
I really don't want to use top tier combos. I don't like them at all. I will use this though if I get another request for it but more than likely, I won't use this in my final match. Ill use one of my own special attackers.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 14, 2011
There isn't an unorthadox combo I've seen thus far that cannot be beaten by a top tier combo. To be honest, I'm on the skill side of the argument, although I have a completely different stance on it than you guys do. The fact of the matter is that most tournaments have been won with top tier combos regardless of what could have happened. You could use that same skill you have with the top tier combos. It'd most likely make winning easier.
If you'd make the argument that most people wouldn't know how to counter unorthadox combos: If a player cannot form a general idea of how parts work together, then it's no surprise that you could beat them with your unorthadox combo. Skilled players, or at least knowlegable players should know what to do.
Sidenote: I just remembered that Brad dubbed this "Blader's Eye". YAY for nostalgia!
Even if you could win with unorthodox combos, if it's a not top tier stamina type vs. a top tier defense type, or something like this, it wouldn't be surprising if the unorthodox combo won. That doesn't mean that you have more skill. Stamina types are supposed to beat Defense types.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 9:08 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: There isn't an unorthadox combo I've seen thus far that cannot be beaten by a top tier combo. To be honest, I'm on the skill side of the argument, although I have a completely different stance on it than you guys do. The fact of the matter is that most tournaments have been won with top tier combos regardless of what could have happened. You could use that same skill you have with the top tier combos. It'd most likely make winning easier.So in a sense, you want to see an unorthodox combo beat a top tier right? Give me any combo that is top tier that you feel won't lose to anything other than top tiers and ill beat it. In fact, ill use the combo in the tournament as well as a main combo most likely so take a shot.
If you'd make the argument that most people wouldn't know how to counter unorthadox combos: If a player cannot form a general idea of how parts work together, then it's no surprise that you could beat them with your unorthadox combo. Skilled players, or at least knowlegable players should know what to do.
Sidenote: I just remembered that Brad dubbed this "Blader's Eye". YAY for nostalgia!
Even if you could win with unorthodox combos, if it's a not top tier stamina type vs. a top tier defense type, or something like this, it wouldn't be surprising if the unorthodox combo won. That doesn't mean that you have more skill. Stamina types are supposed to beat Defense types.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Dan - Mar. 14, 2011
MF Lightning LDrago 100/CH120RF against your combo. (both heights)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 14, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:09 PM)Bluezee Wrote:(Mar. 14, 2011 9:08 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: There isn't an unorthadox combo I've seen thus far that cannot be beaten by a top tier combo. To be honest, I'm on the skill side of the argument, although I have a completely different stance on it than you guys do. The fact of the matter is that most tournaments have been won with top tier combos regardless of what could have happened. You could use that same skill you have with the top tier combos. It'd most likely make winning easier.So in a sense, you want to see an unorthodox combo beat a top tier right? Give me any combo that is top tier that you feel won't lose to anything other than top tiers and ill beat it. In fact, ill use the combo in the tournament as well as a main combo most likely so take a shot.
If you'd make the argument that most people wouldn't know how to counter unorthadox combos: If a player cannot form a general idea of how parts work together, then it's no surprise that you could beat them with your unorthadox combo. Skilled players, or at least knowlegable players should know what to do.
Sidenote: I just remembered that Brad dubbed this "Blader's Eye". YAY for nostalgia!
Even if you could win with unorthodox combos, if it's a not top tier stamina type vs. a top tier defense type, or something like this, it wouldn't be surprising if the unorthodox combo won. That doesn't mean that you have more skill. Stamina types are supposed to beat Defense types.
No, I didn't say that at all...
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 14, 2011
So what exactly is the proposal if any at all? Should I use something not top tier and run through all the other top tier combos?
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:54 PM)Dan Wrote: MF Lightning LDrago 100/CH120RF against your combo. (both heights)
I will do it. And have tests tonight. Do you prefer l2f or rf on the l drago?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Dan - Mar. 14, 2011
LRF all the way.
I await strange results.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 14, 2011
I didn't propose anything.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 15, 2011
(Mar. 14, 2011 5:54 PM)Dan Wrote: MF Lightning LDrago 100/CH120RF against your combo. (both heights)
In response to this, here are my tests against my own wobbler. I usually use a special shot with this but it would cause an unfair advantage to the bey being shot after it since this is solo-testing results. Note that the reason I would say this is unorthodox and not top tier is because 1. No one listed it or even bothered to use it, 2. The balance on this thing is HORRIBLE but the force it has behind its hits while tilted packs a serious punch, and 3. It is mine(should be good enough). I call this one Hades Hammer. In other words, Hell Bull 230S.
MFB Attack Stadium
Hell always launched first
Hammer vs. MF LLDrago CH120LRF (120)
Hammer: 6/10
LL: 4/10
145 Height
Hammer: 6/10
LL: 4/10
With the shot I use, I could have easily made those 60s into 80s or 90s. It's really that serious.
Hammer vs. MF LLDrago 100LRF
Hammer: 9/10
LL: 1/10
This was absolute murder. The only win LL got was due to a very lucky hit off the wall that made it hit the top of the Hell wheel and send it out.
Also, for the fun of it, I also did this:
Hammer vs. Earth Aquario 85WD (Normal Launch)
Hammer: 10/10
Earth: 0/10
Hammer vs. Earth Aquario 85WD (My Launch)
Hammer: 5/10
Earth: 5/10
Hammer vs. Earth Bull AD145WD
Hammer: 10/10
Earth: 0/10
This combo works amazingly well because the 230 aids in getting the Hell wheel to tilt to its fullest extent, allowing the upper slopes to make serious contact and either literally slam or smash the opponent out with tremendous force. It also destabilizes combos on ANY height. Unfortunately, after all the testing, the inside of 230 was stripped and broken. Hopefully I will have one by the next tournament.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 15, 2011
Again, I could say : "Do you really know how to 'control' Lightning L Drago ?" It is always possible that you know how to launch well some combinations, but for some reason not those that are commonly seen as "top-tier".
By the way, there is no such thing as "L2F".
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 15, 2011
(Mar. 15, 2011 5:22 AM)Kai-V Wrote: Again, I could say : "Do you really know how to 'control' Lightning L Drago ?" It is always possible that you know how to launch well some combinations, but for some reason not those that are commonly seen as "top-tier".
By the way, there is no such thing as "L2F".
Sorry, I was thinking of R2F while I was typing LRF. I am thinking of another combo at the moment. Do I need to show video proof or something to show I know what I am doing? I mean, I mainly use attackers. I have been since the plastic generation and I have done extremely well with them, even with the worst of them.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 15, 2011
I do not think a verdict can be reached on your case for instance, but it seems important for me to leave the possibility that having skills is a bi-directional relation with top-tier combinations as well. Do you believe that it is absolutely impossible that you do not "put as much skills" in certain customizations considered top-tier as you put in some that are considered "unorthodox" ?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cyber Blader - Mar. 15, 2011
Okay Bluezee, I'm scared of that combo. The problem is, Kai-V brings up a good point that you may not be using all of you skill with LLD and only with Hammer.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 15, 2011
(Mar. 15, 2011 6:12 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote: Okay Bluezee, I'm scared of that combo. The problem is, Kai-V brings up a good point that you may not be using all of you skill with LLD and only with Hammer.
Let it be known that I do not see it as a "super-conscious-and-malicious" 'mis-concentration' of skills just to show your point, Bluezee.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cyber Blader - Mar. 15, 2011
(Mar. 15, 2011 6:16 AM)Kai-V Wrote:(Mar. 15, 2011 6:12 AM)CyberDranzer Wrote: Okay Bluezee, I'm scared of that combo. The problem is, Kai-V brings up a good point that you may not be using all of you skill with LLD and only with Hammer.
Let it be known that I do not see it as a "super-conscious-and-malicious" 'mis-concentration' of skills just to show your point, Bluezee.
I also agree that Bluezee is not the kind of guy who would do that. I'm just saying that it is possible you could have (without realizing) not have used LLD to it's full capacity. That being said, I believe the tests are genuine, and both beys were launched with the full intent of winning.