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+--- Thread: Should we ban Basalt? (/Thread-Should-we-ban-Basalt--38423)
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai-V - Aug. 13, 2011
(Aug. 13, 2011 9:48 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: It would be interesting to see how much knowledge the people who have voted to keep things the same.
It is not like it is particularly difficult to determine how much knowledge they have ...
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Shabalabadoo - Aug. 13, 2011
I see some people posting like basalt is the be all end all of defense.
Well, it isn't. There's other defense options, and while many of them don't get as good as basalt, several get 75+% against attack. Which is a great number by the way, you get leeway with your skill.
Plus, even though Kai-V posted it and its been mentioned in the advanced forum topic several times, but people don't seem to get that even though attack types can beat Basalt and other defense wheels doesn't mean they'll get used.
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I'd also like to throw in the prospect to this discussion, of parts that were released post-Basalt that didn't get a full chance to get used to the fullest.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Dracomageat - Aug. 13, 2011
So long as I can use Basalt Horogium 100 Q, I don't really care what the outcome of this thread is.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 13, 2011
(Aug. 13, 2011 9:52 PM)Shabalabadoo Wrote: I see some people posting like basalt is the be all end all of defense.I agree here. Basalt's banning will open up the metagame, and parts previously considered outclassed will see use again. Like before, MF Leone H145RF was a damn good Smash Attack combo in Italy. Could you see yourself using it now? Nope. Why? Basalt. Basalt made so many combos useless, there's no benefit in keeping it besides to nurture the ego of those who like using an insanely over-powered wheel. I mean, it made LIBRA go unused. Nowadays, much like at the time of Libra's banning, mind you, if you don't have Basalt, you won't be winning many tournaments against people who DO. I say ban Basalt. It's only logical, as not doing so is killing the metagame, shrinking it down to "Can you beat Basalt?", which is the same in the "Can you beat Libra" mindframe that led to IT being banned.
Well, it isn't. There's other defense options, and while many of them don't get as good as basalt, several get 75+% against attack. Which is a great number by the way, you get leeway with your skill.
Plus, even though Kai-V posted it and its been mentioned in the advanced forum topic several times, but people don't seem to get that even though attack types can beat Basalt and other defense wheels doesn't mean they'll get used.
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I'd also like to throw in the prospect to this discussion, of parts that were released post-Basalt that didn't get a full chance to get used to the fullest.
(Aug. 13, 2011 5:35 PM)drakio Wrote: I think that people should stop complaining about basalt and just find a way to beat it, I don't think that there should be any restrictions on beyblade because that takes away the fun, When I play its about fun not winning basalt should be left alone and should be legal. Its not unbeatable, just work harder, and have fun
But is it fun when one wheel is destroying everything except for a few niche combos? Not to me. I like using old Attackers that Italians used to win VERY often with. Plus, when something (Basalt) outclasses something that was banned not too long ago (Libra), something is wrong.
(Aug. 13, 2011 4:53 PM)darkblader2010 Wrote: no then i well have to change my basalt rex
In addition, this seems to be the best post to demonstrate the mindset of those who don't want to ban Basalt. They enjoy winning everything, so they don't want any change. Frankly, this is very selfish.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Jaygrazer - Aug. 13, 2011
(Aug. 13, 2011 9:48 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: It would be interesting to see how much knowledge the people who have voted to keep things the same. Personally i'm all for it since it will mean a lot more variation. I don't think attack will dominate cause very few people seem to use attack types in tournaments because they're apparantly "too risky" to use which I think is a complete load of carp if you know what you're doing.
I would SO use a Blitz or a Screw in a tournament without any fear if Basalt went Bye-Bye. Even though many people use Basalt for combos, COME ON! I wanna use a Scythe Lacerta 100CS without a prob! This thing just make every HWS preceding it look like carp. Even 4D has problems against it!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - H8R - Aug. 13, 2011
I'm feeling okay with anything now I mean if it doesnt get banned the meta game will be fun but basalt will dominate defense
if it gets banned I would love the metagame turning out more fun and will have the patience to get to use basalt once more I'm all for it
I suggest we ignore the poll for now and stick to the suggestions lets see how this works out
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
The metagame is NOT fun, that's the point. One combo ALWAYS winning, isn't fun. I repeat: Much like the situation with Libra, the metagame is now "Can you beat Basalt?", not "Can you beat your opponent?".
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - ShadowL-Drago - Aug. 14, 2011
i actually like the challenge of trying to beat basalt. it keeps me busy and gives me the drive to keep trying new combos.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - H8R - Aug. 14, 2011
@ Shadow L-drago
my point exactly Basalt is a trigger that forces people to use different combos and their skills!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - travisawesome - Aug. 14, 2011
Here are some basic predictions if Basalt was banned with parts 230 or BD145:
All the combos would be free to use tournament-wise and didn't have to fear Basalt's terror.
BD145's ban results in Basalt 230 becoming useful and the only counter available to use to counter it would be MF Pegasis 145RF and some people would be too chicken.
230's ban would open up the metagame and force low combos win with the exception of BD145.
So I'm in a neutral state.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
But would you sacrifice the well-being of the metagame for that? Basalt is by far the best Defense wheel, and is one of the best Stamina wheels. Also, it is an amazing Balance wheel. Basalt is just too good right now. And Basalt 230 is one of the problems. You're thinking about what happens to YOU if Basalt is banned. You have to think in terms of the well-being of the metagame. I have to go with Kei's point here. Ban it.
(Aug. 14, 2011 12:10 AM)H8R Wrote: @ Shadow L-drago
my point exactly Basalt is a trigger that forces people to use different combos and their skills!
And you want to kill the metagame because of THAT? I mean, all of the combos that used to be fun are useless. Frankly, you can no longer win a tournament without using Basalt at least once.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - zflare3 - Aug. 14, 2011
basalt is the key metal wheel for defense...
basalt shouldnt be banned there is a metal wheels that beat basalt...in attack
1.HELL
a lot of recoil with basalt and with the right atack parts needed "bye bye basalt
basalt help people have creative thoughts
also it helps people to think about counter attacks with help beat basalt
if basalt can get beaten
then why ban it?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
Not really. Our point is that Basalt is not only the best in Defense, it is also the best in Stamina. The thing beats SCYTHE, for crying out loud. And Burn. And Virgo. And Earth. When you have a wheel that is best for multiple types, you need to ban it. It's better than Libra by FAR. If you like weight, use MF-H Libra BD145MB.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - TheFalling - Aug. 14, 2011
First of all BAsalt is one of the best wheels and that is crazy to bann it? I bet it is because you don't have it!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - TheFalling - Aug. 14, 2011
First of all BAsalt is one of the best wheels and that is crazy to bann it? I bet it is because you don't have it!
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
...This is why this started in the Advanced Forums. This is a very stupid post, and frankly, is SPAM. No, it needs to be banned because it wins against too many combos, and made a lot of good wheels useless, like Burn. I mean, it does better than Libra, which, by the way, WAS BANNED. Kei has it, and he wants it banned. Most, if not all, people who want Basalt banned has it. We've all seen the results. The main people who like it are thinking of themselves, not the METAGAME, which is the issue here, not your precious ego. Ban it, it's WAY overpowered.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - zflare3 - Aug. 14, 2011
The falling
are feeling alright nearly evryone here has it
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - lord Wolfblade - Aug. 14, 2011
after going to the tournament today and facing a couple basalt combos:
MF-H basalt 230CS was fairly easy to beat, with hell BD145RF i was able to destabilize or KO quite often. not only that, with hell BD145RF i took out attackers with ease. MF-H basalt 230CS does not need to be banned at all IMO
MF-H basalt BD145CS. i had a very hard time with the ones i fought, with my two attackers IIRC i only got one KO against them. this combo should be banned IMO
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
And did you see it used for stamina or with MB? The thing has an insane spin time for something so heavy, and it STILL takes care of the business.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Giraton - Aug. 14, 2011
man good points from both sides. my vote will have to go with not banning it. look, before basalt, there was realy no such this as a good deffence type because attack types were a bully in the game. it was either stamina vs stamina, attack vs attack or stamina vs attack because deffence types were useless. this was why basalt was such exciting news, it was going to make deffence types come back.the thing is it's weight is distributed throughout the entire metal wheel stamina was also helped. the reason i see it why this entire agument is here, is because it's got too much stamina. the thing is, i don't realy see it that way. ive seen earth used so many times against basalt and win with all combos but 1, and thats basalt 230CS, and thats only because earth is almost never used with a high track these days in tournaments and who ever has 230 also has basalt and ends up using that insted of earth. all we need to do is get those wheels that have become useless scince basalt and find new uses for them, they were good for so long, how can one part spoil them, they are still good against other parts. basalt is beatable, and the combos that beat basalt are beatable by combo's that lose to basalt, it all fit's i say.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Clonetos - Aug. 14, 2011
I believe in my honest opinion we should curtail Basalt and make combos that make it good but not over powered. If anyone has ideas on this please post cause all I have is this. Not use 230/TH170
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - TenshouTsubasa - Aug. 14, 2011
I think we should not ban it, but restrict it in some ways.
Like, the Basalt BD145 CS, this thing wouldn't even budge.
I think that we should ban this combo.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 14, 2011
(Aug. 14, 2011 1:11 AM)Giraton Wrote: man good points from both sides. my vote will have to go with not banning it. look, before basalt, there was realy no such this as a good deffence type because attack types were a bully in the game. it was either stamina vs stamina, attack vs attack or stamina vs attack because deffence types were useless. this was why basalt was such exciting news, it was going to make deffence types come back.the thing is it's weight is distributed throughout the entire metal wheel stamina was also helped. the reason i see it why this entire agument is here, is because it's got too much stamina. the thing is, i don't realy see it that way. ive seen earth used so many times against basalt and win with all combos but 1, and thats basalt 230CS, and thats only because earth is almost never used with a high track these days in tournaments and who ever has 230 also has basalt and ends up using that insted of earth. all we need to do is get those wheels that have become useless scince basalt and find new uses for them, they were good for so long, how can one part spoil them, they are still good against other parts. basalt is beatable, and the combos that beat basalt are beatable by combo's that lose to basalt, it all fit's i say.
You forgot one thing that was re-introduced right before Basalt's release. Libra. Frankly, I say Basalt has too much stamina for a defense wheel. I mean, this thing beats Burn, Virgo, and sometimes even Scythe. What happened to those being the best stamina wheels we had? Basalt happened.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Giraton - Aug. 14, 2011
well thats the thing, libra seams to have fallen scince. i own libra, and my brother owns basalt and my other brother owns kebecks and 'striker'. in my friends takara tomy attack stadium, mf libra BD145CS fails to mf LLD100rf, where basalts verson of the combo left a 50% win percentage. libra is now week to 'modern' skill and combo's and is no good of a replacement for basalt.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - RustyXD - Aug. 14, 2011
Even if basalt is banned , we can't assume that everything is going to be Attack Vs Attack. I mean most people use Stamina/Defense types because they are easy to use.Attack types take still with an attacking launch which most people cannot do or to afraid to try in case they mess up. That's why IMO if basalt is banned we will just get more Hell/Scythe stamina combos SPAMed everywhere.
What will happen when new parts are released what are we going to test against Libra? I mean Beat gets good win rates against MF-H Basalt Kerbecs BD145CS/MB , so against Libra combos it should get even better win rates , and most other wheels will do the same.
I still think that Scythe is superior then basalt for stamina , I have done testing and everything and Scythe usually gets about 65% win rates.
Restricting a certain combo might not be the right thing to do since as a tournament host you have a lot of things to worry about , and looking at ever-ones combos doesn't help either.
I have not made a vote yet since I am still undecided. I have plenty more things to say but i will leave it at that for now.