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+---- Thread: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread (/Thread-Plastics-Random-Thoughts-Parts-Discussion-Thread)
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
I wish it at least looked decent with an AR, though :C
Perhaps it will look okay with Penta Wing whenever I get one...
I haven't actually been here as much as most of the work I've done I've just been putting into drafts and rewrites, as well as notes on my collection for when I actually take photos of it, but I've got a couple of attack AR related things to mention once I'm done getting the Driger V2 article up, haha.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 12, 2012
Just wondering, does gaia dragoons sub AR stay fixed with any other AR ?
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
The original gaia dragoon? Well, it's the same as Guardian Driger's SAR, which can be fixed in place with a few AR's. It sucks though, even fixed in place, loads of recoil and very little smash.
Which reminds me, I need to rant about the common idea of OHKO ar's and OHKO which is dumb and bad, but yeah, gotta just finish this driger v2 thing.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 12, 2012
Whoops, meant G.
Personally, I think that the screw zeus, great dragon thing adds uneccesery recoil. Gigars AR is just screw zeus and holy dispell in one. So basically, I think that the great dragon part adds recoil as an oppose to gigars' AR, so I'll do some comparitive tests.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
You need to use the right WD and base to get that AR setup to work, it's not high recoil if you customise right, and it is easily on par with other top-tier AR's. Honestly, it's low recoil compared to AR setups I use (with great success), like Dragon Breaker/War Bear, which toes the line between OHKO and Smash depending on the combination.
Do you really think Deikailo AND Bluezee would both rave about it if it sucked, given they'd have the chance to insult each other about it if they found it sucked?
I used Gigars AR the other day, and it was pretty terrible, btw.
Anyway, I'll probably update this with the OHKO Rant or something, I gotta write it out.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 12, 2012
Ahh, I assumed that it added recoil more than smash, considering it's weight.
I don't really have much look with the combo anyway, TBH, prefer something less risky.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
Eh? Both AR setups are quite heavy, which would lower recoil.
Anyway, OHKO thing is in the works. Simple version is OHKO actually needs to KO stuff, which Whale Crusher and Cybernetic Dragon are both utterly terrible at. More coming.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 12, 2012
Sorry, the access point of where great dragon drops out of screw zeus is quite light.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
Okay, th!nks huge OHKO Rant+General Attack AR Notes.
Simple version: OHKO = Combinations that knock the opponent out in a single hit, are GOOD at doing this, but do have recoil that damages their stamina. The AR's should have MORE Smash than top-tier choices, but at the expense of additional recoil. These SHOULD KO the opponent in ONE HIT.
OHKO =/= Anything that looks aggressive but has loads of recoil so it can only land one hit OR things that have too much recoil to be used for smash, or have high recoil and less smash than top-tier smash AR's. That's just entirely pointless.
Cybernetic Dragon, under all that recoil, has pretty average smash. Why? It can't focus the energy from its hits as all impact faces are flat. It's actually really, really weak, and really recoily. Recoilly as in "mine twisted itself back over the SG and is slightly out of shape because I re-tested this. I'm pretty sad about that.
Whale Crusher? Same deal.
Yeah, they're big. They are both weak.
How do I know this? I've done a load of AR testing lately on fast, grip bases, with various cores and weight disks. I can use a wide defense on a whale crusher/cybernetic dragon, land solid hits, and see what it does without having recoil issues. Guess what? They do less than a normal smash AR.
So, what AR's are OHKO, and don't suck? There are a few. Most of them are simply comfortable as second-tier smash AR's (due to recoil). Again, this is talking from experience against a range of top-tier defensive opponents, as I was trying every possible AR I had to find the best one for my prize combination.
It was mostly done using Customize Grip Base (mostly, I also used the Uriel 2 thing when an AR looked promising enough) and an appropriate core (MG or HMC), and Wide Defense (hugely important). HMC was used where neccessary, etc etc. Also, all in Tornado Attack, recoil is a much bigger issue in MFB Attack.
Here's a list:
Dragon Breaker+War Bear: I'm including this apprehensively, it is easily usable as a top-tier smash AR, and doesn't fly out of the stadium very easily, however the rotational recoil does mean it has pretty poor stamina. That said, it is also ridiculously powerful. But yeah, I'd call it smash, not OHKO, because it doesn't risk flying back out of the stadium very much, being usable with a wide defense and magnecore on SG Metal Flat 2.
Spike Dragon (Dragoon V2): One of the few "OHKO" AR's on beywiki that is legit. Hits like a truck, but has loads of recoil. It does risk flying back out, moreso than pretty much anything else on this list (perhaps other than Hayates AR). Still, hits SO HARD.
Gaia Dragoon G's AR + War Bear: Just a more recoily, less powerful version of the dragon breaker one, sitting decidedly on the OHKO side of the line, but still more powerful than Top Tier Smash choices.
Dark Wing (Dark Series): This one only works on Uriel 2's tip, it's the only one that has enough grip and a good enough shape to withstand the recoil it creates. On other tips, it's not worth using:
It has awesome power, the SAR actually does nothing to interfere with it, it doesn't have enough time to because the AR only gets a few hits in before dying. However, in a good combo, with a good launch, it's pretty much always going to get a KO against anything not packing a rubber tip. Again, you risk flying back out, but less so than spike dragon.
Zinrai/Hayate/Raiden/Shin-Hayate/Hayate 2/Zinrai 2 AR (In my case, Hayate 2): The single most perfect definition of a OHKO AR ever. It hits like the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event, but it really is a "Single-Event" thing. Well, on a good match you might get three hits. On any hit it makes during a battle, SOMETHING will fly out of the arena. Properly used, 95% of the time you'll get a KO, 15% or so of those will be DKO's, and Self-KO is basically limited to rubber-tipped opponents. It may even be the single most powerful attack ring in beyblade, but yeah, recoil.
Now, keep in mind, I'm using pretty big-time setups, in general, normal smash AR's are a much safer choice than any of these (except Dragon Breaker + War Bear, but as I said, that's more of a Smash AR), and on many bases you might need a 10 heavy or HMC and so on.
Uriel 2's tip is much softer than other tips, much much more grippy, which not only makes it fast, but, with a bit of wear, the Uriel 2 setup makes up for not fitting an HMC by having much better recoil handling than any other tip. It's still not enough to allow Wide Survivor with all of these (and for some AR setups, HMC+Wide Survivor seems to work much better than Wide Defense and other cores, for example, the Great Dragon/Screw Zeus thing), but yeah.
Some other notes: Triple Tiger is a great hybrid AR, being top-tier in both smash and upper, but it does mix the two heavily. In Smash Setups (well, my setups), the Upper Attack gives it a decent winrate against grip-based defense, and it is also able to hit lower than regular AR's, however, this also means it's largely helpless against Wolborg 4 defense, because it doesn't hit at the right height to really do anything. It still uses smash, but Wolborg 4 defense is just generally at the right height to mess it up. Anyway, it truly is a hybrid AR over-all. I should probably make sure to just refer to it as "Attack" rather than any paticular type of attackk, but I guess it is "top tier in both smash and upper attack combinations", so eh.
The issue with smash-only AR's, particularly at heights where they can comfortably KO wolborg and most other things, comes with Grip. Grip based defense causes huge issues because pushing it harder only increases the friction. If you're not hitting grip based defenders at an angle that can reduce their contact with the stadium somehow, you will struggle to KO them.
I'm still yet to find an attack setup that can handle grip, weight, and low recoil (wolborg 4) defense well, but then, that would truly be a "beat all" combination.
Gonna update this with some other Attack AR notes in a spoiler here in a minute, too.
other Smash Attack AR notes (Click to View)
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Dan - Feb. 13, 2012
..Dragoon G + War Bear??
I can corroborate Dragoon V2 being an actual OHKO AR, but I found literally nothing from Triple Attacker, Zinrai or Dark Wing. (Believe me, I WISH I DID) Albeit I didn't use Uriel 2, but seriously, you can make anything KO an opposing bey with that base.
Could you post some specific combos so I can see if I have any luck? I mean, okay, 1 random KO from each of those AR's but that is plain ridiculous and I do not think we'd create a category for "one in a million SUPER BURNING BEYSPIRIT KO" kind of set up.
I mean, if we did and it is just the terminology I'm not understanding and they all are OHKO because of that one KO, alright.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
Sometimes I forget the "gaia", okay :c
Umm, I will try to remember them. But no, I used them multiple times on multiple different occasions.
And the ones I listed weren't things I just tried against "any old opponent", I tried them against all three types of defense, and my usual testing compact (Tiger Defenser/10 Heavy/Neo Right SG (HMC)/SG Semi-Flat).
I can't remember the SG Specifics sadly, but Triple Attacker works well on Grip Base with a Wide Defense, though it does still have recoil problems there. Probably an MG core, Wide Defense and survivor ring on customize grip base.
How you didn't get amazing power out of Zinrai's AR is 100% beyond me, unless you used right spin, didn't use wide defense, or something. It's pretty risky using it on the Uriel 2 thing because you can't use an HMC, but the recoil handling of the base itself is pretty good, soo...
If you don't have wide defense though, then that is probably a large part of the problem.
Also, all of this was done in tornado attack. Recoil is more of an issue in the MFB Attack Stadium.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Dan - Feb. 13, 2012
I've been waiting on that package for like 3 weeks. It should be here this week, though.
I'll try Zinrai out again once the parts come in.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
Dark Wing: Dark Wing definitely needed the Uriel 2 thing to work well, CGB can't keep it in well enough. Wide Defense, Survivor Ring. It needs the speed and controllability, and height. Quite odd, because it's one of the best AR's I've ever put on the Uriel 2 thing, but yeah, CGB can't handle the recoil and is too tall, SGMF2 can't handle the recoil, Grip Base can't handle the recoil, Storm Grip isn't even worth mentioning.
Raiden/Zinrai/Hayate: Still awesome! (Did you use it in left spin? HMC?)
Current setup below. Acts more like regular smash (and a great one at that). With the uriel 2 setup you can't use an HMC, so it's more powerful but riskier:
AR: Hayate 2
WD: Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left (HMC)
SP: Cross Survivor/Defense Ring
BB: Customize Grip Base
Triple Attacker: I must have inflated my opinion of this one, it's a second tier smash AR, not a OHKO AR. The Spike Wing is pure OHKO, but the rest is just smash, slightly weaker than triple wing. I'll bump it down. It can be a great choice though, as the Spike wing has massive finishing power, so it outspins stuff too.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Dan - Feb. 13, 2012
"slightly weaker than Triple Wing"? Man I didn't know you hated it that much.
Triple Wing>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>x10^438798327498 Triple Attacker.
I'll try out Dark Wing + Uriel 2 tomorrow or so and Zinrai when the Wide Defense/Wide Survivor come in!
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
No, from what I've seen, it performs almost as well as triple wing.
Triple Wing is what I use as my Benchmark, remember.
You don't have wide defense, and it makes a huge difference to what each AR can do, and as I said, LINE THEM UP. Triple Attacker's contact points are distributed, angled, etc exactly the same as triple wing, two of them are practically identical and one is a gigantic bludgeoning arm with power and also recoil. While it is not a top-tier AR, it is still vastly underrated, and definitely not any order of magnitude weaker than triple wing.
You probably need Wide Defense for Dark Wing, btw.
I will try some stuff with 10 Heavy, but I'm pretty tired atm.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Dan - Feb. 13, 2012
Okay, I'll test that again too haha.
Just making me feel worse I don't have my package yet!
'dat inconsistent AR.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
It's only inconsistent in the purely literal sense of the word. It's a good AR, with spots of brilliance.
Don't even bother with 10 heavy by the way, seriously, there's basically never a good reason to use it for attack.
But yeah, you're really going to want to use wide defense, or you'll enter a world of trouble with the Spike wing.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 13, 2012
For that list, ocean Wrath comes withmetal Driger's BB. Can't remeber if you got that one though.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
Yeah, I have that one. By the way, once the Plastics General Discussion thread goes up, that discussion may move there, I'll link the current version in the OP of one of the threads once I'm done with it (made some good progress
)Man, I wish someone would test that danged AR though... It looks awesome...
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 13, 2012
It's too hollow, properly a OHKO, it's wuite big aswell.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
Hollow isn't a big deal if there's weight on the edge. Big is actually a good thing, it's just that we've yet to find a big AR that is properly shaped for smash.
And please, memorise this now, everyone: OHKO =/= Bad Smash etc,, OHKO = Amazing Smash but with Huge Recoil
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 13, 2012
Yeah I know, I was saying it as a good thing, better range. According to the previous tier list, it wasn't the best choice, it was a tier two I think.
EDIT: Tier 3, but the list isn't that accurate, wolborg 4 is a tier 2, as well as gabriel and dragoon GT.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 13, 2012
Ah, okay. Gotta make these things clear when I'm on edge and tired, haha
Which one? Do you have a link? I can find almost no info on it right now (though I haven't had a thorough look)
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 13, 2012
It's in the OP, it was the one Kei made a while ago.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Mc Frown - Feb. 14, 2012
This doesn't belong here probably but I might have a few plastics for sale soon.
Also Hayate's AR is freaking awesome.