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+---- Thread: [Plastics] :: Random Thoughts/Parts Discussion Thread (/Thread-Plastics-Random-Thoughts-Parts-Discussion-Thread)
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 22, 2012
Awesome, that is a relief, and also the last piece of info I needed there for my compatibility chart! Thanks a load!
Hm, Benjohadi said it didn't fit on properly iirc, but I've seen with other bases where it spins freely that it can be hard to clip on. Will update my spreadsheet tomorrow.
Getting new plastic parts tomorrow, including some real nice ones. I don't know if I will be able to sleep tonight, hah.
Got back from a week long holiday with only plastics and no MFB, still haven't played with MFB, too busy with plastics, and with the order I'm getting and new old ideas to try from Damashii, I am going to be a very busy boy!
EDIT: Hah, I think I should change the combo on Jumping Base's page. Beholder mentioned Upper Dragoon+10 Heavy+Jumping Base (sharp tip) as an interesting combination that can be used when your opponent is stronger than you to catch them off guard. Admittedly, I don't really get what he means there, but it is quite surprising. I've never found the jumping gimmick to be much use for gattyaki, which is the focus of the current combo in that article. This combo is quite interesting. It's not amazing, but because in the dying seconds of a battle it "hops away" from opponents, it can often avoid the last hits that would otherwise deplete its stamina, giving it wins by OS. It's nothing amazing, but it's certainly an interesting little thing.
Okay, got my order of plastics in. Sadly, no Dragoon V2 tip, but on the upside I already know most of the bases it fits in anyway, I will need you guys to check a few things for me.
But, on a better note: I have wide attack! So I'll give that a shot, as well as heavy attack and revolver attack, methinks. Apparently they all suck from what I've read but whatever. Also, Sparkling attacker's AR so I can try that out.
ANYWAY yeah, off to play :3
By the way, Wide Attack is surprisingly not wide and surprisingly thick in the centre. It's a lot like 6 Wide, which is probably why it sucks :3
EDIT: Yeah, all the attack WD's suck.
Anyway, changed my mind on which zombie setup has the best stamina, Wolborg's tip does much better than Burning Kerberous's in terms of stability. I'm not entirely sure why BK did better against Wolborg 4, but in general its aggressive movement can also be risky, and Wolborg's tip doesn't mind. Can't get PF MDBS's tip to spin freely in either of my Dragoon V2 bases, though.
Edit 2: Here's a quick summary of the Attack Weight Disk series:
Star Attack: too recoily and light for defensive/compact use, not large enough for attack use. Sucks.
Wide Attack: It's a lot like 6 Wide but even worse for attack, the weight distribution is much more central, and the bumps actually get in the way of Triple Wing, and also create more recoil than smash. It's like 6 Wide's brother, just as useless but in a slightly different way. It really sucks.
Heavy Attack: You could get away with using it on compacts but eugh, too aggressive for defensive compacts, and too small and centrally distributed to get good movement out of aggressive ones. It sucks, but slightly less than the others (probably)
Revolver Attack: See Star Attack. Also sucks.
Metal might hit harder but it also suffers more recoil and these weight disks aren't shaped well enough, nor are any of them distributed well enough for attack.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 27, 2012
Okay, this is getting kinda depressing now, where my plastic peeps at?!
Anyway, this is vaguely relevant. I currently own both Gyro AR and Twin Horn. Now, two things: Gyro AR is supposed to be the best zombie AR, and Twin Horn is supposed to have recoil issues.
Let me get this out of the way first: I'm not saying Gyro AR isn't the best distributed AR ever made for survival purposes (it is), and I'm not saying Twin Horn has no recoil no matter what (in right spin, it has recoil). BUT:
I prefer Twin Horn to Gyro AR for regular zombies. Same reason I use Burning Kerberous's Base and tip instead of my Phantom Force MDBS. When you stick them in battle against a worthy opponent, they take the hits better, and despite having significantly shorter solo spin, they outspin opponents more often and by longer durations. I believe this to be due to the fact, if you look at the leading edges of twin horn in left spin, they're lovely and rounded, very hard for attackers to get a good purchase on.
Now go look at Gyro AR. Look at those huge, flat faces. Guess what happens when it gets hit in them (an it does, the shape of the AR means beyblades it is on do tilt a bit more if they're light ad hit on top, so there is lots of leaning in there)? If you said "you lose a noticeable amount of stamina and are somewhat destabilized" congratulations, you win the prize (it's a purely theoretical prize, sorry).
So, Gyro AR has the best distribution but it has recoil from the flat faces. Twin Horn has very, very good distribution, but doesn't have nearly as many recoil issues. Guess which one works better when you're in the middle grinding against other beyblades? Twin Horn.
It's a shame, but yeah, I am disappointed by Gyro AR. It's probably the best survival AR in right spin though (less indents to hook into), so Gyro AR/Wide Survivor/Bearing Base would be incredible for pure survival/right spin zombie stuff, and that's where mine shall sit. :c
Obviously, don't use twin horn in right spin, recoil and supposedly breakage issues.
Oh, and as for the Customize Bearing Base (BK) vs PF MDBS in Customize Grip Base: the latter has infinitely better solo spin, however, the double bearings of the former give it better ability to self-right (meaning less stadium grinding and less time on flatter sections of the tip), and better ability to take hits. All in all, its rotation is much harder to distrupt.
It's really odd, but yeah, I have every zombie part imaginable (except maybe the CEW of Takara's Zeus, but I honestly think the Metal Sharp CEW is necessary for any semblance of LAD with EG Bases anyway), and my favourite (for stamina at least, possibly over all) is:
AR: Twin Horn
WD: Wide Survivor
SG: Neo Left (Double Bearing Core)
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customize Bearing Base
Oh, and if you read the beywiki article on bearing stinger, it talks about the lower friction plastic tip. Judging from my Phantom Force one, I suspect it's the POM of Zeus's Light Sharp CEW and MFB's PD, but I have nothing to compare it to, other than it being so much smoother than other plastic parts.
S'yeah more food for thought.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Jan. 27, 2012
Yeah I was doing the same thing,I prefer twin horn over gyro AR. Reason being in stamina VS stamina, twin horn can actually knock it out. As a pure suvival combo I tried this
AR Gyros AR
WD: Wide Survivor
SG Castings: Left SG
SG: Bearing core
BB: Wolborg 2
I took a video of the battle aswell if you want to see ?
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 27, 2012
Interesting to know. Especially since not much is really known about the Gyro AR apart from it's apparent amazing performance for zombie combos. I'll probably never own a Gyro AR or Twin horn and the majority of plastic lovers on here probably don't have a Gyro AR either. Also that's the zombie Blitz used in the recent plastic tourney in the UK and it's very formidable(he basically went though the whole tourney using that and gets through to the finals.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Poseidon: Why not use BK's Base and Defense Ring or whatever? I find it has better LAD.
I always use (Takara) Twin Horn for left spin, the rounded heads give it nice ability to take hits, and it steals spin really nicely. I've also heard of breakage in right spin. Tiger Defenser is a nice substitute, too.
Gyro AR is very overrated, the flat parts where it's like \_---_/, the bits made of slashes, anyway, they cause recoil when hit, even from an angle, and result in it losing balance faster than Twin Horn and even Tiger Defenser. LAD is good and all, but if the opponent is still standing, you're in a lot of trouble. And, frankly, if you want pure LAD, use Spiral Change Base, not a conventional bearing-based zombie.
I can throw together some tests once my laptop is back up and running.
Man, I should really be talking it up, seeing as I might actually sell it (and a red gaia dragoon S, stickers peeling slightly, and the AR was used a couple of times, very lightly), but yeah, we'll see, I need to figure out how postage works first.
As for Defensive Zombies, Twin Horn again, though I use my Hasbro one, with War Lion SAR, as Survival isn't as important as taking hits, and I dislike the shape of War Lion, at least compared to Twin Horn. In Right Spin, I'd use War Lion or Tiger Defenser.
And yeah, I know all about Blitz's use of that zombie (well, he used my personal favourite zombie, using Defense Ring and BK's Base). The reason it outspins everything not called "Spiral Change Base", despite having less solo spin ability than Wolborg and MDBS's tips is because in battle, it takes hits so well, and is so much more stable when hit, that it can steal spin infinitely more effectively, meaning having less solo spin isn't a problem. At least, that's the best sense I can make of it.
And yeah, LeeDraciel didn't have much of a chance against it with his Wolborg 4 thing, even with Wide Defense, that zombie is basically perfectly designed to beat it, over and over again.
So yeah, IMO, zombie AR's, Tiger Defenser is the most versatile (actually, it's probably the most versatile AR full stop), Twin Horn is best in left spin. Hasbro Twin Horn for left spin defense, War Lion for right-spin defense, and Gyro AR if you so desperately want to justify how much you paid for it that you can convince yourself that it's better than the above, despite that simply not being the case.
Also, despite my distaste for it, Weak Launching is more effective in plastics than MFB... Honestly, there's even a chance it could reduce the game to "Zombie vs Zombie vs Spiral Change Base", if it catches on and people get zombies... If that day comes, then I'd hope something would be done to prevent it, as difficult as that may be.
Oh, and I finally got my Storm Grip to work well enough for upper attack, and it's doing real nice. However, it has meant I'm now using G Upper on SG Metal Change Base. It actually works really nicely against everything short of Wolborg 4 Defense and Burning Kerberous Zombies, as they take hits well enough to avoid KO. It outspins compacts as it has great weight distribution and the AR hurts opponents stamina with it's slopes and smash.
AR: G Upper
WD: 10 Wide/Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left (Normal Core) (That's the fully plastic one. You can also use Neo Left Casings and a normal SG internal part)
BB: SG Metal Change
It's pretty cool.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
Um apparently even when the combo is on it's side and the base isn't spinning while the rest of it is it still counts as the combo still spinning. It beat Blitz's Zombie in the last plastic tourney so not really the perfect counter.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Which Zombie? Tiger Defenser/Wide Defense/Wolborg 4 is able to beat most zombies pretty handily, but the upper eschelon of zombie customizations cause it trouble, and as far as I know, the BK one beat it handily (just as it does in my testing).
And yeah, the upper part can continue spinning and that's legal. However, it can't spin freely for long as the Right Spin charges it up, so it has to stop eventually when the resistance gets high enough.
_____
Also, despite my distaste for it, Weak Launching is more effective in plastics than MFB... Honestly, there's even a chance it could reduce the game to "Zombie vs Zombie vs Spiral Change Base", if it catches on and people get zombies... If that day comes, then I'd hope something would be done to prevent it, as difficult as that may be.
Oh, and I finally got my Storm Grip to work well enough for upper attack, and it's doing real nice. However, it has meant I'm now using G Upper on SG Metal Change Base. It actually works really nicely against everything short of Wolborg 4 Defense and Burning Kerberous Zombies, as they take hits well enough to avoid KO. It outspins compacts as it has great weight distribution and the AR hurts opponents stamina with it's slopes and smash.
AR: G Upper
WD: 10 Wide/Wide Defense
SG: Neo Left (Normal Core) (That's the fully plastic one. You can also use Neo Left Casings and a normal SG internal part)
BB: SG Metal Change
It's pretty cool.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
The one that's your favourite.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
You sure? I was quite sure Blitz won that matchup, from what both He and LeeDraciel said.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
Um what date? The most recent one was last week.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Blitz - Jan. 29, 2012
I did win that match up Ultra, it was 3-2 if I remember correctly. Me, Th!nk and Lee spoke about over facebook.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Hm, still surprisingly close. Will look into it some more, I think. I do wonder if 10 balance stays out of the way better than wide defence or something... Hmmm... Thanks for clarifying.
Nice to have other people posting by the way.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
(Jan. 29, 2012 5:53 PM)Blitz Wrote: I did win that match up Ultra, it was 3-2 if I remember correctly. Me, Th!nk and Lee spoke about over facebook.
Can you look at the results cause I swear after the match you said outloud that Lee won the match?
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Blitz - Jan. 29, 2012
I wouldn't of come first if he won the match and looking at the results sheet I can confirm what I Already know... like I said me, Lee and Th!nk talked about it over Facebook soon after the tournament. Your probably thinking of the one between Lee and ThePokeBlader when we were double checking the rule of the Wolbrog 4 combo.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Yeah, Lee seemed pretty convinced he lost that one, seeing as he was talking about trying to figure out a counter for it in future.
Man, still nothing on the Uriel 2 thing. Going to r0ckbull's on Friday to hang out and spin tops, and I'd rather have a solid idea of whether or not I will be able to use that in future tournaments. That said lately I've been using metal tips more often anyway.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
(Jan. 29, 2012 7:02 PM)Blitz Wrote: I wouldn't of come first if he won the match and looking at the results sheet I can confirm what I Already know... like I said me, Lee and Th!nk talked about it over Facebook soon after the tournament. Your probably thinking of the one between Lee and ThePokeBlader when we were double checking the rule of the Wolbrog 4 combo.
Yeah that was probably it. Do you have any idea what ThePokeBlader used in the match against Lee?
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Blitz - Jan. 29, 2012
The Wolborg 2 SG/Uriel 2 tip thing should hopefully be updated in the rules soon, I was hoping to use it at the last plastic tournament but I left it a bit late reminding the other Committee members so it didn't get updated in time so I thought best not to use it.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Ahh, well remind them to add the Hidden Spirit AR thing too. Thanks for letting me know, that is fantastic news
Just keep in mind, the combination that I've found to cause Uriel 2 tipped combos the most trouble is basically Tiger Defenser/Wide Defense/Wolborg 4's parts. I'm yet to find any attacker that can beat it. The wolborg 4 thing does sometimes lose to random things but generally it's a really, really solid choice.
Oh, as for pokeblader's combo, here's what Blitz wrote in the tourney thread.
AR: Turtle Survivor / AR: War Lion
WD: 10 Wide? / 10 Heavy?
SG: Neo Left SG (Double Bearing Version) / SG: Left SG (Bearing Version 2)
SP: Defense Ring
BB: Customize Bearing Base / BB: Defense Grip Base 2
Not much hope against wolborg 4. Turtle Survivor is like, the last valid choice for zombies, 10 Wide doesn't work for zombies, and the defense combo is okay but generally it's best to avoid mixing defensive zombies and weight based defense.
I should try to get my hands on a Black Wolborg 03/Uriel, or at least the AR. I have a gold one but I don't want to break it, apparently it's quite good for zombies (though not being as round as twin horn/tiger defenser, I doubt it would be better).
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
Where did you here that? Not saying it's not true i'm just wondering since i've never heard anything about it. Both Uriel and Wolborg 3 are very hard to find. There's one on ebay for a high amount but that's about it. Also I think Roux may have one too.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
Personal experience, Damashii, and just looking at it. Cross Horn (Uriel/Wolborg 03) is basically turtle survivor but more evenly distributed, rounder, and with less protrusions, so it's pretty academic. I have the gold one, I did use it a little because it's hardly in mint condition, but yeah.
I think JR_Tiger has one, but eh, while I would like to have one, it's probably not something I will buy any time soon.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Ultra - Jan. 29, 2012
If it's hardly in mint condition use it then. You're not exactly a collector anyway.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Jan. 29, 2012
It's not mint, but I still quite like it staying in one piece. Plus, I doubt it's going to be any better than Twin Horn.
I might try it later or something, but if it is good, then I'll have to buy a black one... Plus, I don't mind my beyblades not being mint because I plan to hand them down to children one day and/or be buried with them, rather than just show them off and sell them eventually, but I don't like them breaking. And I do try and keep a few of them in good nick.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Hazel - Jan. 30, 2012
I would like to remind everyone here, in th!nk's defense, that all gold plastic suffers considerably higher breakage rates after aging.
If he doesn't want to shatter his Wolborg 3 AR, it's best he doesn't use it at all.
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - th!nk - Feb. 12, 2012
Oh wow, just realised one of my Star Attack WD's (belonging to Uriel 2) has some small cracks in it. How fragile can one beyblade be?
I realised why star attack doesn't line up with the two 5-sided AR's I have (Draciel V's and Star Shape), too. The WD is centred so the "top point" of the star is at the side, i.e. the spin gears longest dimension spans from the top point to the bottom centre of the WD, whereas the AR's sit perpendicular to this. Man, TT could have done much better if they'd made star attack the other way around, but I guess that might make it even more imbalanced than it already is, or something :\
RE: Plastic Parts Discussion - Poseidon - Feb. 12, 2012
Yeah, plastic's are way more complex that MFB
.I haven't been posting here much lately, I hope I'll make my return by making some increadibly insanely strong combo, but it properly wont' happen.
Star attack isn't useful anyway
.