+- World Beyblade Organization by Fighting Spirits Inc. (https://worldbeyblade.org)
+-- Forum: Off-Topic Forums (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Media (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Media)
+--- Thread: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread (/Thread-Cardfight-Vanguard-Discussion-thread)
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Rustled Jimmies - Jul. 16, 2013
Ah ha!
First off, insult? I'm not INSULTING you in the slightest. I am giving you heavy criticism about your choice of words and opinion that is formed into advice into a newer player that doesn't yet know what to start off with. I simply pointed out the fallacies of your argument, and you're the one becoming overdefensive and sensitive about my criticism. I'm not the one being fussy when you're using fallacies to explain the good point, if any, of a bad card.
And secondly
Quote:Garmore:guranteed 5k bonus, grabs whatever you want swings 25k with tron
Ezel: has superior ride, guaranteed 5k bonus(depends on triggers) with skill that grabs random top card potential, 35k+ swing with tron's effect, full field and skill use once
I think the superior finisher is obvious
lol superior finisher
The only thing Ezel has for it IS a Superior Ride. Ezel has 10k defensive, +1k for every GP RG on your field (no, you don't expect to have a constant 5k all the time without minusing from your hand), and a CB2 LB that topdecks potential Triggers or PGs for a temporary boost for just one turn? Oh, and Tron's +10k? And where are you even getting your Trigger boosts from, you don't ever count those in calculating a VG's potential. All in all, Ezel gets 25k Stage 3 attack. Oh, I'll just use my PG and block that.
You Ride Garmore, CB2, you get a guaranteed pull of, say, Dindrane. SB1, draw 1 card. I can avoid getting Triggers and PGs that way. Ride Garmore again (you're minusing), CB2, guaranteed pull. I also don't have to drop any needed guards from my hand to fill what I exactly need.
So let's see, for a cost of 4 CB, which is better? 2 guaranteed pulls without the risk of calling PGs or Triggers, or 2 topdeck pulls with a risk of calling PGs or Triggers just to get a temporary boost for one turn that can be easily blocked by a PG? Clearly, the "superior finisher" is not that superior at all.
Seriously, someone here JUST said that people rarely use Ezel because it really isn't that good compared to Garmore. And that's leaving Chromejailer and Spectral Duke aside.
And you're right. I've never played you. I've played amazing players who taught me everything I know. Without relying on the logic of an anime.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Dual - Jul. 16, 2013
This is very fun to watch, hah.
What's the average price for a Dragonic Kaiser Vermillion these days? I remember it being $20 back in the day, before "The Blood." XD
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Axel Phantom - Jul. 16, 2013
(Jul. 16, 2013 2:10 AM)Rustled Jimmies Wrote: Ah ha!
First off, insult? I'm not INSULTING you in the slightest. I am giving you heavy criticism about your choice of words and opinion that is formed into advice into a newer player that doesn't yet know what to start off with. I simply pointed out the fallacies of your argument, and you're the one becoming overdefensive and sensitive about my criticism. I'm not the one being fussy when you're using fallacies to explain the good point, if any, of a bad card.
And secondly
Quote:Garmore:guranteed 5k bonus, grabs whatever you want swings 25k with tron
Ezel: has superior ride, guaranteed 5k bonus(depends on triggers) with skill that grabs random top card potential, 35k+ swing with tron's effect, full field and skill use once
I think the superior finisher is obvious
lol superior finisher
The only thing Ezel has for it IS a Superior Ride. Ezel has 10k defensive, +1k for every GP RG on your field (no, you don't expect to have a constant 5k all the time without minusing from your hand), and a CB2 LB that topdecks potential Triggers or PGs for a temporary boost for just one turn? Oh, and Tron's +10k? And where are you even getting your Trigger boosts from, you don't ever count those in calculating a VG's potential. All in all, Ezel gets 25k Stage 3 attack. Oh, I'll just use my PG and block that.
You Ride Garmore, CB2, you get a guaranteed pull of, say, Dindrane. SB1, draw 1 card. I can avoid getting Triggers and PGs that way. Ride Garmore again (you're minusing), CB2, guaranteed pull. I also don't have to drop any needed guards from my hand to fill what I exactly need.
So let's see, for a cost of 4 CB, which is better? 2 guaranteed pulls without the risk of calling PGs or Triggers, or 2 topdeck pulls with a risk of calling PGs or Triggers just to get a temporary boost for one turn that can be easily blocked by a PG? Clearly, the "superior finisher" is not that superior at all.
Seriously, someone here JUST said that people rarely use Ezel because it really isn't that good compared to Garmore. And that's leaving Chromejailer and Spectral Duke aside.
And you're right. I've never played you. I've played amazing players who taught me everything I know. Without relying on the logic of an anime.
ok I thought I was done but I am seriously curious, where did you get "my logic" being from the anime?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Rustled Jimmies - Jul. 16, 2013
(Jul. 16, 2013 2:14 AM)Ultramarine Wrote: This is very fun to watch, hah.
What's the average price for a Dragonic Kaiser Vermillion these days? I remember it being $20 back in the day, before "The Blood." XD
According to my V-Mundi pricing list that I use to help calculate the deck costs (source from CoolStuff Inc), Vermillion is about......Great Hera, about $26. I was expecting like...what $20, $17. But damn.
(Jul. 16, 2013 2:19 AM)Axel Phantom Wrote: ok I thought I was done but I am seriously curious, where did you get "my logic" being from the anime?
I don't. I assume every fallacy is anime related because the anime itself is full of fallacies fueled by plot armor and misplays. Lots and lots of misplays.
Also, "main-character-itis".
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Axel Phantom - Jul. 16, 2013
(Jul. 16, 2013 2:31 AM)Rustled Jimmies Wrote:(Jul. 16, 2013 2:14 AM)Ultramarine Wrote: This is very fun to watch, hah.
What's the average price for a Dragonic Kaiser Vermillion these days? I remember it being $20 back in the day, before "The Blood." XD
According to my V-Mundi pricing list that I use to help calculate the deck costs (source from CoolStuff Inc), Vermillion is about......Great Hera, about $26. I was expecting like...what $20, $17. But damn.
(Jul. 16, 2013 2:19 AM)Axel Phantom Wrote: ok I thought I was done but I am seriously curious, where did you get "my logic" being from the anime?
I don't. I assume every fallacy is anime related because the anime itself is full of fallacies fueled by plot armor and misplays. Lots and lots of misplays.
Also, "main-character-itis".
well you assume wrong
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Temporal - Jul. 16, 2013
The point is, though it could have been worded better, Ezel is a giant super-minus waiting to happen, and you risk robbing yourself of triggers and PGs for an attack that can just get PG'd. Or someone just lets it through. I mean, the only time you can be sure that you're actually hurting someone with this is if they've got five damage. Otherwise, you're hoping for a crit trigger, when you might have called one or two on accident. At which point, the attack is pointless, and the effect itself no longer is a threat. Honestly, I haven't seen anyone really that concerned with a five-stage attack. Mostly the response I've seen is "Meh." or "Way to waste CBs." Then the attack either goes through for a whopping 1-2 damage, which isn't as bad as it seems, given the impossibility of doing it again, or it gets PG'd. Then you're looking at one CB left for the entire game, and no chance to use the effect you just gambled a whole game on. At which point, I'd swing at the RGs with my vanguard to weaken Ezel, and possibly drop it a stage, JUST to draw things to guard with. And if I pull a crit, then my RGs are swinging at a suddenly much less scary Ezel. Too much downside.
Again, speaking from what I've seen. I've seen Ezel hit only a few times, and never for game. Hell, I saw Ezel get absolutely STOMPED by this funky Bermuda Triangle build. All that bouncing can get scary, apparently. Plus, Pacifica. Nobody cares about the megablast, but being able to ditch bad cards is always a plus. Especially when you draw triggers.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Axel Phantom - Jul. 16, 2013
(Jul. 16, 2013 3:31 AM)Temporal Wrote: The point is, though it could have been worded better, Ezel is a giant super-minus waiting to happen, and you risk robbing yourself of triggers and PGs for an attack that can just get PG'd. Or someone just lets it through. I mean, the only time you can be sure that you're actually hurting someone with this is if they've got five damage. Otherwise, you're hoping for a crit trigger, when you might have called one or two on accident. At which point, the attack is pointless, and the effect itself no longer is a threat. Honestly, I haven't seen anyone really that concerned with a five-stage attack. Mostly the response I've seen is "Meh." or "Way to waste CBs." Then the attack either goes through for a whopping 1-2 damage, which isn't as bad as it seems, given the impossibility of doing it again, or it gets PG'd. Then you're looking at one CB left for the entire game, and no chance to use the effect you just gambled a whole game on. At which point, I'd swing at the RGs with my vanguard to weaken Ezel, and possibly drop it a stage, JUST to draw things to guard with. And if I pull a crit, then my RGs are swinging at a suddenly much less scary Ezel. Too much downside.
Again, speaking from what I've seen. I've seen Ezel hit only a few times, and never for game. Hell, I saw Ezel get absolutely STOMPED by this funky Bermuda Triangle build. All that bouncing can get scary, apparently. Plus, Pacifica. Nobody cares about the megablast, but being able to ditch bad cards is always a plus. Especially when you draw triggers.
know what? i'm not gonna argue because I've already explained how ezel can be a good finisher.
moveing on to Spectral Duke, he has a ride chain and his skill combines phantom blaster dragon's retireing 3 of your own units for an effect which is to re-stand but lose twin drive similar to dragonic overlord, its a counterblast of two so it can be done twice fairly easy, if you manage to score a successful hit with a unit like Viviane, you can actually do it twice in a row, but unless they literally have nothing left, it just puts you at a big minus
honestly, a while back before DOTE came out, spectal duke was one of the most popular deck around my locals, now I almost never see it lately so getting ahold of the stuff needed for the deck shouldn't be too hard
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Rustled Jimmies - Jul. 16, 2013
You're looking at the cost for only its CB. If it was just the CB, then it can be done easily. But retiring 3 of your own units is a pretty huge cost, seeing as you are minusing yourself from a full field set-up. Now, when you ride Duke over its G2, you can retire 1 to topdeck 2, which will help mitigate the cost of Duke without having to minus from your hand. If you're talking about "finishers", Duke is perfect as a finisher because of how hard it will be to recover from 3 retired units from your field.
Again, topdecking. Now, Duke is actually one of the more popular GPs and runs well in conjunction with Chromejailer Dragon, but relying on Topdecking like Viviane (who uses CB1, btw) and Black Dragon Kngiht, Vortimer is, once again, risky like what we explained with Ezel.
Doesn't deny that Duke is still a good and viable GP deck.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Axel Phantom - Jul. 16, 2013
(Jul. 16, 2013 4:49 AM)Rustled Jimmies Wrote: You're looking at the cost for only its CB. If it was just the CB, then it can be done easily. But retiring 3 of your own units is a pretty huge cost, seeing as you are minusing yourself from a full field set-up. Now, when you ride Duke over its G2, you can retire 1 to topdeck 2, which will help mitigate the cost of Duke without having to minus from your hand. If you're talking about "finishers", Duke is perfect as a finisher because of how hard it will be to recover from 3 retired units from your field.its not crazy, doing SDD's skill twice(with Viviane) is downright suicidal unless your opponent has literaly nothing left to defend with while that situation is unlikely it is not unheard of
Again, topdecking. Now, Duke is actually one of the more popular GPs and runs well in conjunction with Chromejailer Dragon, but relying on Topdecking like Viviane (who uses CB1, btw) and Black Dragon Kngiht, Vortimer is, once again, risky like what we explained with Ezel.
Doesn't deny that Duke is still a good and viable GP deck.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Giraton - Jul. 16, 2013
ok ok ok, this has gone far enough. ive had this thought scince last night. ok, ezel. activate ability on an average of 2 times a game, gain massive power then drops it afterwards. garmore, gains just the right amount of power using an 8k booster, tron or chargal (all avalble due to cb2 summon any grade 2 or less), consistently from limit break, which out of experience, can go for 3 turns average unless you are doing something stupid or unlucky and not guarding properly. garmore grinds, ezel is all or nothing. and you know who wins? garmore, because grinding is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than all or nothings as grinding means you end up with the point of your opponent not being able to guard, and even if they got a heal, your next turn will win. now true, ezel has it's field filling and it's +1000 power per rear guard, but jap just got link joker, and I have a feeling old gold spam decks aren't going to work against link joker. garmore however, doesn't really have that problem. this argument is between power and consistency, but the truth is consistency wins more in any match, and garmore is more consistent than ezel.
ps: this looked allot neater in my head. also, if I remember correctly, ezel can only summon to empty spots on the field. chances are, your not going to have empty spaces by limit break.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Pcyborg - Jul. 17, 2013
I've been playing Ezel for a year or so for my English deck. I view his CB2 + power and field strictly as a bonus and just a finisher. I dont even care if its a trigger (unless its a draw trigger). His limit break is purely a bonus to me.
Whats frightening is his Superior ride. You get to put anything down to attack with and if you have too many G3s at hand, if you put them down, you dont really lose shields and if they do hit your attackers, you can simply replace them later. Basically at this point, he just shines cos your setup at this point is a rush setup and imagine if your opponent is stuck on G1... Its hard to recover IMO. You'll be tempting your opponent to rush back at you and thats where the LB4 kicks in. If the CB is untouched, there is always Sleygal to use em to hit nice numbers.
Anyway, I wanna talk about BT12. Surprisingly, Link Joker is not the highlight among players but Shadow Paladins (Revenger) instead.
The Lock mechanic is indeed attractive but its a difficult deck to play. You need a proper field setup and you have to set the break ride up else you wont be able to fully utilise the Lock mechanic. On the other hand, Shadows has been faring very well. The new Shadow builds is very well balanced.
They have:
Tartu and Modred for field populating
Blaster Dark revenger for retirement
Dreen + Blaster Dark revenger for damage unflipping
Cursed Spear for center VG crit
Raging Folm for self standing VG.
Without realising they seem to dump almost every single popular key element into them.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Axel Phantom - Jul. 17, 2013
(Jul. 17, 2013 4:10 AM)Pcyborg Wrote: I've been playing Ezel for a year or so for my English deck. I view his CB2 + power and field strictly as a bonus and just a finisher. I dont even care if its a trigger (unless its a draw trigger). His limit break is purely a bonus to me.
Whats frightening is his Superior ride. You get to put anything down to attack with and if you have too many G3s at hand, if you put them down, you dont really lose shields and if they do hit your attackers, you can simply replace them later. Basically at this point, he just shines cos your setup at this point is a rush setup and imagine if your opponent is stuck on G1... Its hard to recover IMO. You'll be tempting your opponent to rush back at you and thats where the LB4 kicks in. If the CB is untouched, there is always Sleygal to use em to hit nice numbers.
Anyway, I wanna talk about BT12. Surprisingly, Link Joker is not the highlight among players but Shadow Paladins (Revenger) instead.
The Lock mechanic is indeed attractive but its a difficult deck to play. You need a proper field setup and you have to set the break ride up else you wont be able to fully utilise the Lock mechanic. On the other hand, Shadows has been faring very well. The new Shadow builds is very well balanced.
They have:
Tartu and Modred for field populating
Blaster Dark revenger for retirement
Dreen + Blaster Dark revenger for damage unflipping
Cursed Spear for center VG crit
Raging Folm for self standing VG.
Without realising they seem to dump almost every single popular key element into them.
agreed revengers have me very interested cant decide if I wanna build them or link joker
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Pcyborg - Jul. 18, 2013
I feel what determines whether LJ is worth playing now is BT13.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Giraton - Jul. 19, 2013
im going to build link joker because I liked megacolony as a clan but I never liked their look, but these guys look cool. for starters im going to make a trial built deck.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Temporal - Jul. 19, 2013
Well, I'll be going to my first non-Chicago tournament on Tuesday. I'm a tad more confident, now that my NG deck isn't just a pure trial deck, and I dropped Mr. Invincible, but I am still nervous. The metagame in Chicago will likely be a lot different in Rosemont, because the stores are better-stocked. At the very least, it'll be a great learning experience for me. Especially if I can place, which I doubt. It's amazing. I haven't seen anyone so into vanguard in person since going to Anime Central a few months back, but almost everyone at the card shop that played was helpful. I'm hopeful that I'll do well, though. Really, the only thing I'm worried about is bus fare. Going from the south side of Chicago to the suburbs (near O'Hare) is going to be a pain. At the very least, though, I know by heart how to get there.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - TentacleZooka - Jul. 19, 2013
(Jul. 19, 2013 11:30 PM)Temporal Wrote: Well, I'll be going to my first non-Chicago tournament on Tuesday. I'm a tad more confident, now that my NG deck isn't just a pure trial deck, and I dropped Mr. Invincible, but I am still nervous. The metagame in Chicago will likely be a lot different in Rosemont, because the stores are better-stocked. At the very least, it'll be a great learning experience for me. Especially if I can place, which I doubt. It's amazing. I haven't seen anyone so into vanguard in person since going to Anime Central a few months back, but almost everyone at the card shop that played was helpful. I'm hopeful that I'll do well, though. Really, the only thing I'm worried about is bus fare. Going from the south side of Chicago to the suburbs (near O'Hare) is going to be a pain. At the very least, though, I know by heart how to get there.Wow, good luck! I guess we're both building our decks from trial decks. How many booster boxes did it take you guys to make a competitive deck? I'm using Aqua force at the moment and plan on getting some BT08 boxes. How many should I get?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Hitsugiya - Jul. 20, 2013
(Jul. 19, 2013 11:54 PM)Bazooka Wrote:If you're focusing on building one clan, just buy and trade singles lol.(Jul. 19, 2013 11:30 PM)Temporal Wrote: Well, I'll be going to my first non-Chicago tournament on Tuesday. I'm a tad more confident, now that my NG deck isn't just a pure trial deck, and I dropped Mr. Invincible, but I am still nervous. The metagame in Chicago will likely be a lot different in Rosemont, because the stores are better-stocked. At the very least, it'll be a great learning experience for me. Especially if I can place, which I doubt. It's amazing. I haven't seen anyone so into vanguard in person since going to Anime Central a few months back, but almost everyone at the card shop that played was helpful. I'm hopeful that I'll do well, though. Really, the only thing I'm worried about is bus fare. Going from the south side of Chicago to the suburbs (near O'Hare) is going to be a pain. At the very least, though, I know by heart how to get there.Wow, good luck! I guess we're both building our decks from trial decks. How many booster boxes did it take you guys to make a competitive deck? I'm using Aqua force at the moment and plan on getting some BT08 boxes. How many should I get?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - TentacleZooka - Jul. 20, 2013
Has anyone here ever been to a Booster Draft tournament?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Dual - Jul. 20, 2013
I have, if you mean a sneak preview? Ive been to a couple.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Temporal - Jul. 20, 2013
(Jul. 20, 2013 12:00 AM)Hitsugiya Wrote:Well, I did most of my building through trades. The issue is that I still don't have a non-trigger starting vanguard. Battleraizer is a stand trigger, so it kinda sucks to have to eat a trigger to even start the game. If it had been a draw trigger, I wouldn't have cared. I'm honestly gonna drop them for crit triggers as soon as I can. I already dropped two draw triggers from my Aqua Force deck for two more stand triggers.(Jul. 19, 2013 11:54 PM)Bazooka Wrote:If you're focusing on building one clan, just buy and trade singles lol.(Jul. 19, 2013 11:30 PM)Temporal Wrote: Well, I'll be going to my first non-Chicago tournament on Tuesday. I'm a tad more confident, now that my NG deck isn't just a pure trial deck, and I dropped Mr. Invincible, but I am still nervous. The metagame in Chicago will likely be a lot different in Rosemont, because the stores are better-stocked. At the very least, it'll be a great learning experience for me. Especially if I can place, which I doubt. It's amazing. I haven't seen anyone so into vanguard in person since going to Anime Central a few months back, but almost everyone at the card shop that played was helpful. I'm hopeful that I'll do well, though. Really, the only thing I'm worried about is bus fare. Going from the south side of Chicago to the suburbs (near O'Hare) is going to be a pain. At the very least, though, I know by heart how to get there.Wow, good luck! I guess we're both building our decks from trial decks. How many booster boxes did it take you guys to make a competitive deck? I'm using Aqua force at the moment and plan on getting some BT08 boxes. How many should I get?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - TentacleZooka - Jul. 20, 2013
Should I start learning more about the Dazzling Diva set before I go to it? Is there any strategy?
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Temporal - Jul. 20, 2013
Well, it IS Bermuda Triangle. I would learn how to play it first. I have a few BT cards, and I do want to make a deck. I might be lucky enough to find a store that'll help me figure out what I need, beyond what's on V-Mundi.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Pcyborg - Jul. 20, 2013
Most of BMT mechanics is about card bouncing for effects to kick in. Either by drawing or powering up units. VERY HAND and RG dependent.
Strongly suggest that you focus on the break ride PRISM Labador/Vert build from EB06 since the support it has is all within just one booster box, and your chances of getting Labador is 50% if you get a whole box for yourself... Your commons are pretty much covered in 2 boxes worth. Not exactly a budget deck, but heck, it is the first Break Ride to be introduced in the English meta. It should fare rather well.
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - TentacleZooka - Jul. 20, 2013
Thx guys! I'm researching the booster set now!
RE: Cardfight Vanguard Discussion thread - Temporal - Jul. 20, 2013
'Tis true. It's a seriously lucky thing that Vanguard is kinda in its infancy in most US English metas. (Around where I live, at least) If there was any time to experiment to find a clan you like by extenxive tournament playtesting, it'd be now. IMO, of course. In, say, YuGiOh, that's unthinkable. Same with Magic.