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+--- Thread: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables (/Thread-Tier-Vs-Skill-The-Constantly-Confusing-Variables)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - H8R - Mar. 02, 2011
sorry to sound like a noob but what is gattyaki
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - neoknux_009 - Mar. 02, 2011
when you try to OHKO your oppenent by doing a launch towards your opponent, preferably a few short moments after he has launched.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Aquilaz112 - Mar. 02, 2011
to add to what he said
I just stidied what it is now so here's the article on it
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Gibraltor - Mar. 02, 2011
I think skill goes as far as shooting at half power or full power, that's how the Italians play their RF MetaGame, how powerful they launch their RFs mixed with the used condition of it.
Strength also has something to do with something when you aren't using the string launchers, say what you will there may be a max RPM but I guarentee half of you can't hit it with a rip cord launcher.
And it's really about cohesiveness between the parts, some bey parts do really well together even though you wouldn't consider them "tier" material.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Uwik - Mar. 02, 2011
A very thin line separates the need between tier and skill. As they are both needed. On one side, it's only arrogant to just rely on tier and expect to win each time. On another side, skill can only take you as far without some good beys to back it up.
I mean it's nice to have a person in WBO like Ultrablader who takes the time to compile a tier list, which is a nice reference to go to once in a while. It's also as nice to read up about Bluezee and Delkaiko who perhaps use 'below the radar' beys and win most of the time.
I, myself use MF Leone 85 MF. Sure, Leone is 'outclassed' according to the tier list. The recoil is terrible, but launched perfectly, the smash attack is something to be reckoned with, and with a low track, it destabilizes at the same time. Metal Flat helps with stamina, although not by much. With this combo, I could win, not all the time, but most of the time, enough to win a couple of local unofficial tourneys (since @34, I'm a bit old to participate), which is currently infected with stamina-based anyway.
The problem with tier list is that it's tested by other people, and not yourself. What works with others might not be the same with you. Any LLD combos are just not working out for me, while it's currently ranked 1.
All in all, if I had to choose for the sake of polling, maybe 55% skill vs 45% tier. So i'm voting for skill.
just my 2 cents.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Sniper - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 4:00 PM)Bluezee Wrote:not to mention MF Rock Capricorn M145ES(Mar. 02, 2011 2:29 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Yep. Skill is important. The thing is, the majority of players don't have the basics down at all. That's why people can beat top tier combos with unorthadox ones. People don't practice and can't launch properly
I agree with your first 2-3 sentences. However, I would not generalize the reason why people beat top tier with unorthodox combos by saying it is because they cant launch properly, practice, or know the basics. For example, Deikailo's "Hell on Earth" combo would be considered unorthodox right? I practice almost everyday in some form but with attackers, particularly LL Drago CH120RF, I have yet to defeat it consistently. I know every traditional or currently advanced launching technique and do them all effectively especially sliding shoot with the exception of Gattayaki which I am working on now but I practically have it down perfectly with heavier blades.
To be completely honest, I actually specialize a whole lot more with attackers and spin-stealers than anything else. I have been using these stamina combos in tournaments for experimenting more or less just to see if the results I get when I test alone or with my team the same ones I will get at a tournament full of people. Also, I do it because I already know what the tournament scene will look like. Earths, Thermals, and Burns for the most part before the semi-finals. I honestly hate stamina just as much as I hated compacts in the plastic generation. The matches are extremely boring but I figure, okay, if you want to bore me, I will bore you and by the time I come back from across the room the battle should be over. Take a look in my hoody pocket at the next tournament. You will notice that I only carry one or on VERY rare circumstances or occasions, two stamina combos.
Skill comes into play in all battles and the basics should definitely be known. More often than not, after listening to Deikailo and having her show me what she meant, parts that are known as being bad are really good when they are combined with other bad parts. Her combo MF Saggitario M145RF is probably one of the most odd, unorthodox, yet useful and effective combo I know.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
My hell combo was designed to destroy all top tiers. it's a defense type that has enough attack properties to kill a stamina's spin time from the center of the stadium.
(Mar. 02, 2011 4:39 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote:(Mar. 02, 2011 2:50 PM)momiji manju Wrote: basic skills aren't exactly hard to get down, really. Sliding shoot and gattyaki are really as hard as it gets.
You're right. It isn't that hard. People still aren't doing it. At least in New York anyway. I'm talking just straight shot or banking.
Also, Bluezee: I have no idea what her hell combo is, but I'm fairly certain you can beat it with a top tier combo, even if you can't beat it with that specific top tier combo.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 02, 2011
Then how come you didn't win Battle of the Boroughs 2?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Otsu - Mar. 02, 2011
M145RF. Hrmmm i gotta try that. Anyone know if the m145 by tt stays in place better than the hasbro ver.?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 4:20 PM)momiji manju Wrote: to be fair the only unorthodox part is M145.
It is also the most vital piece of the combo and the reason why it works.
(Mar. 02, 2011 6:52 PM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: Then how come you didn't win Battle of the Boroughs 2?
I can vouch for her and say if she had not lost to ikmv with a combo that got stuck under the track, I am absolutely sure she would have been facing me in the final match of the tournament. Also, as far as I know, she used the combo only once and it destroyed the opposition with ease. That top-tier combo looked like trash when it went up against hers. The final match could have gone either way with us especially considering we both had other combos up our sleeves. I didnt use my usual test combo any more than once in the tournament which was against ikmv in the semi-finals even though that one just gives me easy wins. I was actually planning to use my others for a change.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - neoknux_009 - Mar. 03, 2011
perhaps if there were more vids proving that skill is 50/50, then i would believe it. im completely open and would really liek tos ee these btw, it would be great to learn new shooting techniques ^^. but in all the tournaments and matches ive been in, it hasnt been as important (to 50% importance anyway)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Musica - Mar. 03, 2011
You guys are lucky you get to go to all of these tournaments it sucks that theres no bladers in missouri anyway Ive beeten top teir combos with beys just out of the box same parts and all so yeah its skill
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 03, 2011
What's the combo? I'll beat it with a top tier combo.
Edit: Also, making a combo that beats the tier list isn't skill. It's a strategy. In fact, it fights more for the tier side of this argument.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Zaneago - Mar. 03, 2011
I have rock leone that can kick gravity perseus and hell kerbeks but hahaha!!!
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 03, 2011
Also, through practicing the basics thoroughly you should be able to beat these unorthadox combos with your skill.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - §ΣρΔΓΛτξΦζÞιΠΞ - Mar. 03, 2011
(Mar. 03, 2011 5:56 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: unorthadox
I seriously doubt that skill has anything to do with the actual game
I can give a random toddler a Basalt Aquario BD145RS with a metal face and Beylauncher versus myself using a light launcher and Dark Wolf DF145FS
Who's going to win
EDIT: Also assuming that the toddler can launch fairly well
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 03, 2011
(Mar. 03, 2011 6:17 AM)Separated Spine Wrote:Obviously beyblade has nothing to do with skill whatsoever.(Mar. 03, 2011 5:56 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: unorthadox
I seriously doubt that skill has anything to do with the actual game
I can give a random toddler a Basalt Aquario BD145RS with a metal face and Beylauncher versus myself using a light launcher and Dark Wolf DF145FS
Who's going to win
EDIT: Also assuming that the toddler can launch fairly well
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 03, 2011
(Mar. 03, 2011 5:49 AM)Cye Kinomiya Wrote: What's the combo? I'll beat it with a top tier combo.
Edit: Also, making a combo that beats the tier list isn't skill. It's a strategy. In fact, it fights more for the tier side of this argument.
hit up dani for it. i pretty much know it but im unsure about a certain part that was used and i dont want share her combo without her consent.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - ikmv - Mar. 03, 2011
I choose fun! That is better then tier and skill! Alot of people on the forums say that NY/NJ is wierd because of our results. It is not that our area is wierd, imo there is alot of great bladers and if we all chose tier stuff we would all know what each of us uses. I find it really fun coming to the next tournament with a combo that no one has seen and no one knows how to counter. By no means I consider myself great but I can hang I think with most. But I choose to have fun and tbh I consider most of the people in the tournaments friends and win or lose I am there for fun. Last tournament I accomplished what I wanted and even though I did not place I was really happy and seeing other people happy to be at the tournament gave me my win
(I think I went off topic)
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Cye Kinomiya - Mar. 03, 2011
That's just it. Just because it's not a combo that people have seen before doesn't mean you shouldn't know how to stop it. A player should be able to have an understanding of how parts work together, at least enough to know how to stop it. Even if none of the beyblades you have prepared can stop this combo (this is very unlikely assuming you have the entire top tier to choose from), there is nothing stopping you from taking those bey apart and making something to stop this new combo
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - ikmv - Mar. 03, 2011
Thats the thing. This game is rocks>paper>scissors>rocks and after choosing your "rock,paper,or scissor" and you know you chose lets say a rock to go up against a paper then skill comes into play. I have access to a majority of the parts and this goes to deception tactics really. If someone sees you using the same bey and tries to counter then you as a good blader should have enough skill to overcome that counter. I think I rambled again....
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 03, 2011
(Mar. 03, 2011 7:22 AM)ikmv Wrote: I choose fun! That is better then tier and skill! Alot of people on the forums say that NY/NJ is wierd because of our results. It is not that our area is wierd, imo there is alot of great bladers and if we all chose tier stuff we would all know what each of us uses. I find it really fun coming to the next tournament with a combo that no one has seen and no one knows how to counter. By no means I consider myself great but I can hang I think with most. But I choose to have fun and tbh I consider most of the people in the tournaments friends and win or lose I am there for fun. Last tournament I accomplished what I wanted and even though I did not place I was really happy and seeing other people happy to be at the tournament gave me my win
Don't downplay yourself. You are indeed better than the majority of veterans on this board and you didnt start too long ago. You would be a great example of a skilled blader who beats tier consistenly. You are indeed great and thats a lot coming from me because I dont see too many people as great at all. Maybe 5 or 6 if that. I see more as simply overrated. Also, I agree with your methods and your ideas of fun. They are exactly what this community needs. I get tired of seeing the same combos over and over. By creating things no one has seen before, you eliminate a lot of chances of getting countered by a tier combo that is made to beat a tier combo you may use.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Kai-V - Mar. 03, 2011
Just by the way, a huge majority of the customizations posted in the "Winning Combinations" topic I made are top-tier or very close to being top-tier. The only one with not really top-tier Beyblades is Chaos Blader, and those are just two or three combinations among the rest.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Musica - Mar. 03, 2011
(Mar. 03, 2011 7:22 AM)ikmv Wrote: I choose fun! That is better then tier and skill! Alot of people on the forums say that NY/NJ is wierd because of our results. It is not that our area is wierd, imo there is alot of great bladers and if we all chose tier stuff we would all know what each of us uses. I find it really fun coming to the next tournament with a combo that no one has seen and no one knows how to counter. By no means I consider myself great but I can hang I think with most. But I choose to have fun and tbh I consider most of the people in the tournaments friends and win or lose I am there for fun. Last tournament I accomplished what I wanted and even though I did not place I was really happy and seeing other people happy to be at the tournament gave me my win
Your right
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 04, 2011
My combo is Hell Blaze gb145rsf.
Not like I'm tied to it. I use different combos depending on situation. I'll also switch tips out depending on how I feel the battle will turn out. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend fell in love with this combo whereas I only used it once.
I think a large part of skill falls into judgment. Skill would be ideally attained through practice. Through practice, you can conquer basic strategy spanning over a knowledge of parts and their interaction with corresponding parts, the current stadium and the opposing blade as well as launch style and proper blade selection prior to launch.
If you think about it, none of my last statement falls into tier. Tier is you and your opponent's individual blader. Everything outside the blade is on you. Your top tier blade could lose to a tier 3 blade if you can't make a proper counter selection based on knowledge (i.e. constantly selecting tier 1 stamina and your opponent picks tier 3 attacker performed with a perfect sliding shot, resulting in KO)