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+--- Thread: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? (/Thread-The-ongoing-debate-Defensive-tracks-is-C145-still-top-tier)
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
LOL. I think this is truly hilarious. Of course if I truly speak my mind, I will be banned so I'll say this. Ignorance only begets more ignorance so I'll let you rant about nothing but as you can see, once again, NO ONE agrees with you. Yet my points have been proven valid and supported. Very sad to see people can't see the obvious issue here. I'm going to completely dismiss the fact that you are trying to insult me otherwise you wouldn't be speaking here much longer but I will tell you this, don't ever insult my intelligence. I have been making sense from the beginning. People agree because it is the truth. End of story. Don't try and make yourself sound logical when you have been wrong all along. I tested these parts. I have them. You only have one of them. What major testing can you do? And when I mentioned I dont use defense, it simply meant that I dont use it in competition and very rarely friendly play. Don't try and make it sound like I don't know what I'm talking about.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Corey - Aug. 22, 2010
(Aug. 22, 2010 3:54 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: I posted test results where vs. a 90 height combo C145 showed no advantage over GB145.
You don't HAVE a GB145.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - TheLVJ - Aug. 22, 2010
Ozzy, please ease off. There's no need to berate incessantly.
I, personally, see no reason to take C145 off the list. It's still one of the best defensive tracks. Granted, I do prefer GB145.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
(Aug. 22, 2010 4:15 AM)Corey Wrote:(Aug. 22, 2010 3:54 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: I posted test results where vs. a 90 height combo C145 showed no advantage over GB145.
You don't HAVE a GB145.
My point exactly, yet I'm the one wrong? Doesn't even have the parts to test these things yet tries to plague people's minds saying C145 sucks and others are way better. Where do you get off saying this? Ridiculous. But then again, he will probably say he is talking about Cpt. Squirrel's results, not his own.
(Aug. 22, 2010 4:19 AM)The LVJ Wrote: Ozzy, please lay ease off. There's no need to berate incessantly.
I, personally, see no reason to take C145 off the list. It's still one of the best defensive tracks. Granted, I do prefer GB145.
I honestly don't see why I should at this point considering he bought the arguement to another thread that still proved him wrong. But whatever, I'm going to be the more mature one and try your proposal ONCE AGAIN.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
To be fair making this thread was bringing the argument to me.
And quit going on about your proof when you have none.
Post results or your argument means nothing.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Edit: and in a poorly formed sentence, why would you ask me not to insult your intelligence, when you started the whole personal attacks nonsense? I've done more for the metagame then you have simply by virtue of pointing out
145 > DF145 : /
Until you post results I will not respond to any of your posts.
I am ending the hostility HERE.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - loyd87 - Aug. 22, 2010
with what I see... it's semms to be C145 has the second best choice for def combos... but if the person don't have GB145 and got C145 he should take C145 for best result... and with the result I saw... for 1 or 2 wins different the rest id the blader who do the difference after all... do the test with real simulation not simultaneously... may be the diferrence disapeared... may be not. somebody can do this test... I think it's the best test to do for this debate.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
And the ignorance continues. I tried to stop it but you just don't learn. Do you really think that pointing out that a 145 is better than DF145 is anything notable when they are practically the same? I mean come on. It's not like it drastically changed anything. One just has a better solo-spin time then the other. Who cares? In a battle, will that matter? No because it will not be alone. There will be another beyblade affecting it the whole time so it comes down to the bottom it has and it's performance, not the track. If you want to be technical, the fact that I even mentioned the combo L L Drago 100WD has done more for the community and the potentially the metagame since now people have a clearer understanding of Zombies vs. Spin Stealers. If I had not mentioned it in Kei's thread and started the controversy, people would still be confused. Now you tell me how discovering a simple solo-spin time difference that is very minor compares to the potential solution of an issue/misunderstanding that has been going on since the Plastic Gen. We aren't even talking about that anyway. The matter at hand is C145's effectiveness. It's still top-tier. If you want test results, you got it. I'll have them in an hour. At this point though, I see that just as a child, you want the last word so you can have it. I don't mind at all. I have made my points and they are valid.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
(Aug. 22, 2010 4:26 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: Post results or your argument means nothing.And I'm pretty sure about the whole Zombie/LAD/Spin Stealer thing that you were incorrect and I clarified it.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
Post Results.
(Aug. 22, 2010 4:44 AM)Ozzy Wrote: There will be another beyblade affecting it the whole time so it comes down to the bottom it has and it's performance, not the track.And if a track doesn't matter for a combo then why do you care about C145?
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Corey - Aug. 22, 2010
Okay, I don't really know what's going on with this argument between the lines, and which Mc Frown comments were directed at me...but ->
I don't understand how you can test C145 and say that it's better or worse when you don't have your own test samples against GB145. Every testing can turn out differently, and not everyone can get the same results.
The LVJ, Daegor and I each got very different results when testing a bull attack combo, yet we were using the same parts, against the same defense combo in the same type of stadium. The word 'Tier' isn't synonymous with "the best". It's a collection, and a ranking. Multiple parts can share tiers, and until you prove that there's more than one part better than C145, it's still quite obviously a top tier part.
I understand, Mc Frown, that there are some tests that show GB145 is superior in some settings. In my personal tests, C145 is superior against low attackers. I've retested multiple times, and gotten almost identical results, with a 2 win/loss cushion. Everything I posted in the opening of this thread, I can and have replicated.
Regardless, even IF GB145 outperformed C145 in every setting (Which I believe it does not), it is still a VERY good defensive track in comparison to all of the other tracks available. Just because it is not simply "THE" best, does not mean it is not top tier.
Earth is still considered a top tier stamina wheel, though some believe Thermal is the best in that category. Quetz is still considered a top tier attack wheel, even though you personally don't get the best results with it.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
They were all about Ozzy.
I'd still like to see results though, as it's something my opposition has failed to provide.
And if something is outclassed it does not deserve to be top-tier.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Corey - Aug. 22, 2010
It can be outclassed by one part and still be top tier, though.
If you get a 95 on a test, but someone else gets a 100, does that mean you don't get the A because someone else did better? They might have a slightly better average, but you still scored pretty high.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
Test results, please.
And a 95/100 isn't top tier if 100 exists..
It's like this: Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Ivy League schools are top tier.
If you make it into a school like Washington and Lee, you're still good, but you're not top-tier (assuming the other school[s] rejected you).
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Corey - Aug. 22, 2010
What test results are you asking for? List the combos and situations and I'll post results tomorrow.
I assume you're asking for something different than what's on the first post?
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
My test results are up. I'll make them more in-depth in the morning. Just for the fun of it, I even took the metal face off of the defenders. My Earth is broken. Have to pick up another. Here they are for now:
MF Lightning 100RF vs. Virgo C145WB
11-9
MF Lightning 100RF vs. Virgo GB145WB
12-8
These were all done in the MFB Attack Stadium unbiased.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
Wow, one more win out of 20.
Why would you NOT pick GB145 in a double blind/any other situation.
lol, I did not see the results in the OP.
I'll have more results soon.
Spoiler (Click to View)
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
One win doesn't make it better at all. Keep in mind the defenders didn't even have a metal face at all. The win rate on either combo could have been changed or decreased. All ties were redone which in most cases occured in the matches against C145. Even those ties looked more as if C145 won but I dont have a camera to slow down the video so I wouldn't know.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
But your results still show there's no reason to ever pick C145 over GB145, especially if they're equal in the situation where C145 is supposed to preform best.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Diamond - Aug. 22, 2010
I have just played around with MF Lightning L Drago 90RF vs MF Earth Bull C145WB.
I'm not sure if any of you people have experienced this, but I have observed that the height of the L Drago Clear Wheel is constantly 'getting in the way' and blocking MF Lightning L Drago 90RF from making much contact with the C145 Track.
Unfortunately, I do not have the time to do any extensive testing of the C145 Track, so I apologize for that.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
Again, one win isn't any major feat. I have mentioned previously in this thread that both C145 and GB145's results vary in different tests. This thread wasn't to express which was better. It was to show that in some cases, C145 is better in defending against low attackers. It is its specialty and it is effective. It is still top-tier.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
But your testing has not showed this.
And Diamond, YES.
That's pretty much why I posted those pictures in my post on page 2.
Most of the time C145 makes no contact with the opponent anyways.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
How has it not showed it? The results are there. Other people have posted their results. I even said in my post with my results that I will get more in-depth with them in the morning. What more do you need to see?
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
Results where C145 has a clear advantage.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - loyd87 - Aug. 22, 2010
C145 is much effective when the blade is unbalanced and protect well when it done... but GB145 most keep your blade away from unbalance situation with it's ball... so this to track work differently at the start... it's like to compare apple with pineapple :\ may be i'm wrong
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Aug. 22, 2010
Absolute opposite.
When C145 wobbles it floor scrapes and dies.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Ozzy - Aug. 22, 2010
Did I NOT just say that the results will be more in-depth later? I haven't even put a metal face on any of the defenders and even now, the results are still extremely close. I haven't finished the results. You are making no sense. If you're going to complain, get GB145 yourself and do it when YOU have it.