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+--- Thread: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? – WBO Staff wants your feedback! (/Thread-Should-Sniping-Gattyaki-be-part-of-the-game-%E2%80%93-WBO-Staff-wants-your-feedback)
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 1:27 PM)Vtryuga Wrote: What is the current ruling of the wbo when such an instance occurs? Only then will it make sense to discuss.Gattyaki is currently allowed. #7 in the OP covers this to some degree. Currently, the WBO start of the battle is when the beys leave the launcher vs WBBA’s when both beys have had a chance to touched the stadium floor.
One of an alternative way to achieve gattyaki like results in the WBO would be to launch early and into your opponents launching spot to create a midair collision. It is very hard to tell if a bey has fully left a launcher.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Vtryuga - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 3:07 PM)Shindog Wrote:(Oct. 04, 2020 1:27 PM)Vtryuga Wrote: What is the current ruling of the wbo when such an instance occurs? Only then will it make sense to discuss.Gattyaki is currently allowed. #7 in the OP covers this to some degree. Currently, the WBO start of the battle it when the beys leave the launcher vs WBBA when both beys have touched the stadium floor.
One of an alternative way to achieve gattyaki like results would be to launch early and into your opponents launching spot to create a
midair collision. It is very hard to tell if a bey has fully left a launcher.
There you have answered the question dont you think? If it is allowed and no one has abused it yet i dont really see the point in making any rule. Making the rule would then highlight this issue more which could lead to some arguments as now both players are aware of this new rule.
Also I would suggest letting the status quo be and just make the sniping shoot something like unsportsmanlike.
For example in the game of Cricket there is one way of getting a batsman out which is legal but is considered extremely unsportsmanlike and is hence extremely rarely executed as it is frowned upon by all.
That is why I would suggest letting the status quo be.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - #Fafnir - Oct. 04, 2020
I'm mixed on this. On one hand, having a chance to win matches that would be near impossible to win seems like a good idea, but launching slightly later than your opponent seems like a game changer. While difficult to pull off, I fear that when it happens, parts will get spiked out of the stadium and scrape on surfaces that may ruin the part. As others have previously mentioned, when directly sniped with sharp parts such as Judgement and Rage 3A, breakages could possibly occur.
At the time of typing this, I feel that the cons of allowing it outweigh the pros. So, in conclusion, my opinion is that Gattyaki shouldn't be allowed in WBO events.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 3:14 PM)Vtryuga Wrote:If you watch the OP video carefully, you might find the example of the gattyaki given was probably illegal (video at 1:38) and scored a point.(Oct. 04, 2020 3:07 PM)Shindog Wrote: Gattyaki is currently allowed. #7 in the OP covers this to some degree. Currently, the WBO start of the battle it when the beys leave the launcher vs WBBA when both beys have touched the stadium floor.
One of an alternative way to achieve gattyaki like results would be to launch early and into your opponents launching spot to create a
midair collision. It is very hard to tell if a bey has fully left a launcher.
There you have answered the question dont you think? If it is allowed and no one has abused it yet i dont really see the point in making any rule. Making the rule would then highlight this issue more which could lead to some arguments as now both players are aware of this new rule.
Also I would suggest letting the status quo be and just make the sniping shoot something like unsportsmanlike.
For example in the game of Cricket there is one way of getting a batsman out which is legal but is considered extremely unsportsmanlike and is hence extremely rarely executed as it is frowned upon by all.
That is why I would suggest letting the status quo be.
So the one example we have is abuse?
I don’t feel like the question is best answered this way.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - MagikHorse - Oct. 04, 2020
Honestly, I think Gattyaki on some level is just impossible to squelch, and the true issue is people that intentionally aim for it as a strategy. It's hard to stop one without bashing people who accidentally happen to bump beys in midair though, and overall I just see issues everywhere in trying to stop it.
Think of it like this, beys will end up airborne eventually in a fight and yet bouncing a bey upwards and hitting them before they can return to the stadium is totally fine by anyone's account (even though I have totally destroyed a F
tip by this sort of midair contact). If they just happen to collide in mid-air as they launch, then I don't see a huge issue with it in kind. Sometimes it just happens without anyone ever intending it at all. Do I like people intentionally holding their launch to the last possible moment to try it? No, that I have a little bit of a problem with, but how would we stop that?I think Gattyaki has to be allowed in at least some capacity. Short of restarting any round where they collide in midair before touching the stadium there's no real way to stop it... but that could easily be so nitpicky and result in a lot of calls and stress on the judges and has the potential to slow entire tournaments down if it becomes too frequent an occurrence, especially if we have to record on cameras for it. It's a lot of boring, wasted time. A judge could call it based on what they see during the launching stage of the match for people intentionally trying to shoot significantly later than the opponent, but that also leads to judge bias and trying to determine the intention of another player which is just pretty cruddy outright short of calling bad launches as per the current rules.
tl;dr The issue isn't so much about Gattyaki as much as it is about whether a rule about it can actually be made (or should be made), and I don't see many ways to do this short of leaving it in the judges hands completely which has its own issues that make it unviable. Outside of that... well, Gattyaki is...
![[Image: dd5osim-77e04875-deaf-4650-8706-311270ca...kIHgTUY__0]](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/79365ca2-7069-4896-9c65-61245993ffef/dd5osim-77e04875-deaf-4650-8706-311270caf2cb.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvNzkzNjVjYTItNzA2OS00ODk2LTljNjUtNjEyNDU5OTNmZmVmXC9kZDVvc2ltLTc3ZTA0ODc1LWRlYWYtNDY1MC04NzA2LTMxMTI3MGNhZjJjYi5qcGcifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6ZmlsZS5kb3dubG9hZCJdfQ.onL3RoE-B6-sZb3gLKI_6-u6rM1adGuv6kIHgTUY__0)
Well sure Thanos, just steal my line why don'tcha? I just don't see a rule that could stop Gattyaki without either making it difficult and/or time consuming for the judges or forcing judges to judge player intent which is cruddy in its own right. I do not believe this is a problem which can have a fair solution for all outside of contesting late launches as already in the WBO rules. Regardless as to whether people believe it should be in the game, there's just no feasible way that I can see to fight it, so here it'll probably have to stay.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Vtryuga - Oct. 04, 2020
To add to Magik Horses point, people can also claim that the judge is biased and that can lead to an argument.
Also another problem is that the gameplay does become a bit predictable if one combo is dominant. To add to the uncertainty of battle is always better and is more fun than winning always with a stronger stock combo.
It also helps financially weaker bladers to play and have a chance to win as they dont always have the best parts. I mean it would be hilarious to see God Valtryek defeating World Spriggan due to a snipe shoot 😆.
I have seen people commenting that potential damage is an issue but I would like to point out that the chances for such a snipe shoot are extremely unlikely and more often than not the beyblades miss. I have had personal experience in that during mfb at least.
Thats why I am saying let the status quo continue.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 4:06 PM)Vtryuga Wrote: To add to Magik Horses point, people can also claim that the judge is biased and that can lead to an argument.Players can also claim a judge is biased when they get sniped, can they not?
“That was too late!”
“Launch was in my space!”
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Saishreyas.G - Oct. 04, 2020
I think Gattyaki should be allowed in Plastic and MFB formats but not the Burst format. Beyblade burst layers are the primary point of contact and the reason the tops burst. A top with a lighter layer has more chance of bursting than a beyblade with a heavier one. The burst resistance is directly proportional to the difference in weight( and spin speed) between the layer and the disc. Sniping in Burst would mean that, the driver of one beyblade (most likely) will come in contact with the layer of the other, on purpose. This would give an unfair advantage to one too, making it virtually immune to bursting, while the other top will mostly burst due to the entire weight of the opponent top hitting it's layer.
Even though Gattyaki as a technique is interesting and frankly would give more options for strategy, it is a distinct disadvantage in the Burst format.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Flame-Byxis - Oct. 04, 2020
I would like to specify that I am against pre-stadium contact sniping. If someone wants to do a sliding shoot so that it hits the other Beyblade, it's still probably not good for the Beyblade, but at least the Beyblades are making contact in an expected way. I am more against landing an unframed disc on top of the other Beyblade, or missing a forceful snipe and damaging the stadium. I think the WBBA rule makes sense.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Bladerbuilder - Oct. 04, 2020
I don’t think it should be part of the game. For 1, severe damage would increase a lot to the Gt chips and sparking chips.
2.Even tho it could win battles that seem impossible.Soon players will find a way to counter this, but new players wouldn’t know and would get destroyed.I do agree that the battle starts when both beys hit the stadium so if you ko’ed before it wouldn’t be fair for me.Also quick battles would also suck because you spend 8 hours creating and testing combos and then you just get sniped.
Overall I think this should be banned 6Jupiter5 please add me to the list
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Lugiamaster0249 - Oct. 04, 2020
I think it should be allowed. It’s not easy to do and it’s somewhat easy to counter, so it won’t be too impactful to keep it legal.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
Just out of curiosity and a tangent, especially for ppl who post test results here, how do you all handle snipes during testing? Do you count them? Not count them?
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - CitrusNinja3 - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 5:42 PM)Shindog Wrote: Just out of curiosity and a tangent, especially for ppl who post test results here, how do you all handle snipes during testing? Do you count them? Not count them?
I don't count them because I want to see how effective a combo is in a controlled environment. If Gattyaki becomes something to look out for, then I might do a separate set of tests to see how effective it is at sniping an opponent.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - DeltaZakuro - Oct. 04, 2020
If it counts toward a point (like if the person got a point from Gattyaki) then it would be very unfair and could be seen as cheating.
To answer the question, im saying No it should not be allowed.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - MagikHorse - Oct. 04, 2020
I will say I am on the wrong side of the 6Jupiter5 post. I don't like Gattyaki. I just don't see a particularly great way to handle it. It's not really on either ground there, really.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - 6Jupiter5 - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 6:11 PM)MagikHorse Wrote: I will say I am on the wrong side of the 6Jupiter5 post. I don't like Gattyaki. I just don't see a particularly great way to handle it. It's not really on either ground there, really.
I’m going to place you on the it should be banned side that cool?
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Lugiamaster0249 - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 5:42 PM)Shindog Wrote: Just out of curiosity and a tangent, especially for ppl who post test results here, how do you all handle snipes during testing? Do you count them? Not count them?I don’t usually count them if it’s same spin because I have to launch one bey before the other so it can already be at a disadvantage, but if it’s opposite spin (especially stamina beys) I will often count it.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 3:18 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: As others have previously mentioned, when directly sniped with sharp parts such as Judgement and Rage 3A, breakages could possibly occur.I have thought about this topic quite a lot but I must admit I didn’t actually consider the straight drop down damage scenario very much. I do wonder what charge metal might do.
At the time of typing this, I feel that the cons of allowing it outweigh the pros. So, in conclusion, my opinion is that Gattyaki shouldn't be allowed in WBO events.
Just tried it. Pretty slight damage with a small dent, but definitely chipped paint haha. Also, it kinda messed up my revolve on a closer look. I guess a lot of weight got dropped on it. But damage is part of the game to some degree. We just need to decide what our tolerance is.
https://youtu.be/7lePUHDUiXE
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - BladerGem - Oct. 04, 2020
(Oct. 04, 2020 5:42 PM)Shindog Wrote: Just out of curiosity and a tangent, especially for ppl who post test results here, how do you all handle snipes during testing? Do you count them? Not count them?
I was just doing testing, and had a round where I unintentionally KO'd the first bey while launching the second. I redid the match since, in a tournament environment with players launching at the same time, it wouldn't have happened, accident or otherwise.
I feel like even if Gattyaki was to become/remain legal in a tournament setting, accidental snipes in testing would be considered a draw/redone in the same way that ties usually are.
Which leads me to an interesting point. If, technically, any bey can win by using the Gattyaki, does that make testing obsolete? Obviously not, but still... what becomes the point of testing, if any combo you use can be defeated regardless of matchup? What becomes the point of testing if you can defeat any combo, regardless of matchup?
Does this become a game of who has the better sniping technique? Of who can skirt the countdown by an extra half-second more than their opponent?
Edit: I don't mean to come off as overly dramatic or "the end is nigh", but realistically, Gattyaki is a slippery slope.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
One other thing of note in this one take video with zero production value, my launch was illegal as I entered my “opponents” launch space a bit. Not impossible to tell at live speed but definitely can be seen a 0.5x or 0.25x. Gattyaki is very hard to perform within the rules, yet not at all difficult to perform if one slightly bends the rules. I do not practice gattyaki at all, but it isn’t that hard to pull off if you just bend the rules a little. Is it really easy to judge?
https://youtu.be/7lePUHDUiXE
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Cat-Daddy - Oct. 04, 2020
im against it.
two reasons:
1.
in my opinion, the point of the countdown and "let it rip" (or go shoot) is so both players THEORETICALLY launch at the very same time...or close to it.
obviously, there will be split second/minute variation between when both players actually launch.
but in the spirit of sportsmanship, the idea is both are trying their best to launch at the very same time.
by TRYING to launch later than your opponent, i feel thats unsportsman-like. is it within the rules currently? yeah.
is it trying to gain a somewhat unfair advantage? my opinion is yes.
2.
with the ever increasing sizes of beys currently (the average size of superkings are HONKIN' compared to dual and god layers) it makes this Gattyaki technique even easier to do within the standard 09 stadium. (IMO 09 is getting sort of cramped for GTs and superkings, and im interested to see if the new dash stadium is a bit bigger)
so during dual layer and god layer time, the risk was greater since the beys were so much smaller.
if the majority opinion for my first reason was it wasn't unsportsman-like to do, then it wouldn't be that big of an issue in earlier seasons.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - 6Jupiter5 - Oct. 04, 2020
Votes:
7 - yes it should be allowed (me, OnlyCanBeOne, AirKingNeo, kai edits, BuilderRob, Vtryuga, Lugiamaster0249, Valtryek Aoi)
10 - no it should be banned (BreakerDs, g2_, BladerGem, CitrusNinja3, Needforspeed, Flame-Byxis, Fafnir, Bladerbuilder, DeltaZakuro, Cat-Daddy
If I missed anybody or placed them on the wrong side do tell me I don’t want anybosy’s voice to be missed
[/quote]
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
Good points Cat-Daddy
1) Interesting to see if anyone will make an argument as to how gattyaki can promote good sportsmanship
2) Good point about the ever increasing size And weight of beys.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Valtryek Aoi - Oct. 04, 2020
I mean, if both people try to snipe the other, they'll just launch at the same time. That doesn't sound any different to me. Granted the difference is (or should be) miniscule and risky, so I'll say yes for now.
For now.
RE: Should Sniping/Gattyaki be part of the game? - Shindog - Oct. 04, 2020
Another thing to consider:
This is how the rulebook currently reads:
“A round begins with the call of “3–2–1 Go Shoot!”
Both bladers must simultaneously launch their Beyblades as the word “shoot” is called.”
IF we take it at face value, “must simultaneous....” and a player gets sniped, is it not more than likely that one person launched too early and/or the other launched too late?
So given a snipe occurrs, what should the judge generally rule given our current rules? Especially when it is difficult for them to see everything.