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+--- Thread: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM (/Thread-Testing-all-the-special-Burst-launchers-for-average-RPM)
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Nov. 20, 2016
Update:
All but the Long winder have arrived! After an hour of loose testing, its VERY apparent that the Sword Launcher is 5 times better than the Heavy Beylauncher.
The Heavy Beylauncher itself is a bit of a mystery. I've taken it apart and its identical to the standard Beylauncher. Nothing, not even the prongs are different. But that aside, everything is on track. Hopefully I'll some sample results by Monday.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Bey Brad - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 18, 2016 6:36 PM)Dracomageat Wrote: This sounds like a farce to me. Poor sample size, no experience with ripcords and an unreliable measuring system. Not impressed.
Pretty harsh coming from a member who's never posted a single thread on testing or strategy.
The data will be useful in some form regardless of what you think of it; if nothing else, we can discuss it and branch off into doing our own verifications, and making our own discoveries. I think it's a cool idea and it's being approached competently enough for me to look forward to the results.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Dracomageat - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 18, 2016 11:19 PM)Cake Wrote: A laser tachometer is hardly "unreliable". It should be far more accurate than any other measuring system, barring a direct connection to the launcher gearing (which would need to have the input cut off exactly when the Beyblade disengages from the launcher to give accurate values).
From what I've seen of similar tests (not for Burst), the bey's RPM goes down very quickly in the moments after a launch, meaning that the maximum value is never readable with this method and less than a second difference in read time can change the numbers drastically. I do not know how one would go about fixing this flaw in the setup but I have not seen anything resembling reliable results from tachometers in the past.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 20, 2016 3:57 AM)Dracomageat Wrote:(Nov. 18, 2016 11:19 PM)Cake Wrote: A laser tachometer is hardly "unreliable". It should be far more accurate than any other measuring system, barring a direct connection to the launcher gearing (which would need to have the input cut off exactly when the Beyblade disengages from the launcher to give accurate values).
From what I've seen of similar tests (not for Burst), the bey's RPM goes down very quickly in the moments after a launch, meaning that the maximum value is never readable with this method and less than a second difference in read time can change the numbers drastically. I do not know how one would go about fixing this flaw in the setup but I have not seen anything resembling reliable results from tachometers in the past.
A Bey loses 1.5 RPMs roughly 3 seconds after launch. Keeping that in mind, the Tachometer takes 3 seconds to get an accuratereading. Using this, you'd add 3 RPMs to the total reading.
Beyblades are a pain in the butt to read because they're constantly decelerating, but I've done this plenty of times before during MFB, so I have the knowledge and experience.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - NEET no Kami - Nov. 20, 2016
is it just going to be you on your own testing the RPM, or will somebody help; one does launching and the other uses the techometer to read the RPM?
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 20, 2016 6:38 PM)NEET no Kami Wrote: is it just going to be you on your own testing the RPM, or will somebody help; one does launching and the other uses the techometer to read the RPM?
It'll just be me. Like I said, I have the average number of RPMs lost between grabbing the Tachometer and it reading the RPMs, so my readings at worst will be 0.5 RPMs off.
From just rough testing, I've found the following:
Sword 86 RPM
Heavy Beylauncher 44 RPM (HORRIBLE LAUNCHER)
Light 74 RPM
Speed 101 RPM
Standard Beylauncher 69 RPM
If I've learned anything, they Heavy Beylauncher is trash and the Sword Launcher JAMS LIKE CRAZY.
To simply this, the speed launcher is the golden RPM for cyclists.
Once again, this is from rough testing, not the official tests. That said, these numbers ARE from the 3 launch method.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Mitsu - Nov. 20, 2016
Which version of the Light Launcher were you using and was it paired with a Long Winder or a standard cord? Didn't go through many of your individual posts here; just read you didn't have access to a Long Winder.
I've been meaning to post here for a while, but cool topic; looking forward to hearing your closing remarks!
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 20, 2016 7:55 PM)Mitsu Wrote: Which version of the Light Launcher were you using and was it paired with a Long Winder or a standard cord? Didn't go through many of your individual posts here; just read you didn't have access to a Long Winder.
I've been meaning to post here for a while, but cool topic; looking forward to hearing your closing remarks!
Duel layer. My Long winder hasn't arrived yet.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - NEET no Kami - Nov. 20, 2016
101 RPM; that is amazing.
I hope TT gives the speed launcher an individual release, otherwise having to to buy multiple sets is goign to be very expensive.
How can the Heavy BL be so garbage tier, what was the point of it.
Thanks for the rough test results.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Brisk AquarioHD - Nov. 20, 2016
101?! That's incredible! Does the Speed launcher perform faster than the Long Winder?
44 for the Heavy launcher? Augh, I'm just gonna skip that. Amazing results! Please do keep us updated.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Izhkoort - Nov. 20, 2016
May I suggest (if you may waste a driver) use an ice made stadium? it may help to not lose that much RPMs
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Nov. 20, 2016
(Nov. 20, 2016 9:04 PM)NEET no Kami Wrote: 101 RPM; that is amazing.
I hope TT gives the speed launcher an individual release, otherwise having to to buy multiple sets is goign to be very expensive.
How can the Heavy BL be so garbage tier, what was the point of it.
Thanks for the rough test results.
Heavy Beylauncher has ZERO differences from the standard Beylauncher aside from the 4 inch shorter cord.
(Nov. 20, 2016 10:05 PM)Brisk AquarioHD Wrote: 101?! That's incredible! Does the Speed launcher perform faster than the Long Winder?
44 for the Heavy launcher? Augh, I'm just gonna skip that. Amazing results! Please do keep us updated.
Once again, I DON'T have a Long Winder. It'llarrive on the 29th.
Further testing is putting the Sword Launcher closer to the Speed launcher (about 5PMS lower). However, that freaking thing jams CONSTANTLY.
I just gotmy work schedule and it's going to be impossible to film a test this week. That said, I'll be able to at least study the components of the launchers.
UPDATE:
Here's a VERY rough proof of concept. I disclosed the dish in the description, however, just in case: the dish gives identical readings as BB-10 from MFB. Remember, THIS IS A ROUGH TEST.
https://youtu.be/fw2_q1fYxwY
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Cake - Nov. 21, 2016
Are you sure the data values you're getting are correct? Because even ~100 RPM is an order of magnitude lower than what I'd expect. At 44RPM it's taking more than a second to complete one rotation. On the other hand, speeds in the 700-900RPM range sound much closer to what the launchers should be capable of - 740 RPM for a Light Launcher sounds very reasonable. The possibility of misreading the tachometer display by mistake seems more plausible to me than typical launchers capping out at ~70RPM.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - OldSchool™ - Nov. 26, 2016
(Nov. 20, 2016 7:49 PM)bdablader95 Wrote: From just rough testing, I've found the following:
Sword 86 RPM
Heavy Beylauncher 44 RPM (HORRIBLE LAUNCHER)
Light 74 RPM
Speed 101 RPM
Standard Beylauncher 69 RPM
I don't think you know how to read a tachometer correctly xD
None of those numbers make any sense!
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Takowowo - Nov. 26, 2016
Alright so in order to help with the growing interest in how these launchers should compare with each other I've derived a simple equation that gives rotations per minute as a function of string length, L; Time to pull the string to its full length, T; and the dimensions of the gears (diameter D for the gear the string is attached to and then gear ratio, essentially)
![[Image: 1f5f859130aab831279c9925360b2284.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/1f5f859130aab831279c9925360b2284.png)
So what this boils down to is that we don't really even need to do experiments which are difficult to run anyways because of consistency. We can theoretically, and rather objectively, determine the differences between the launchers just by pure number calculation. We know the string lengths and we could easily find the gear ratios by counting the teeth on both gears.. You could find the diameter of that driving gear (the one the string is attached to) but because it's the same for all of them you could leave it alone.
PS: This more or less only works for the beylaunchers but the equations for light launchers/Sword launchers aren't too different it'd just be a matter of setting up the equation for different gears.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - exodia0 - Nov. 30, 2016
the only problem I see with that formula it´s measuring accurately T, taking into account the amount of force you apply to a string launcher when you pull full on (which can be impressively high for a plastic toy) and how that force can drastically change of we have a bit of error in readings.
1. I´ll have to be with a stop watch (unless a complicated device attached to the string is developed), and he cannot do it himself while launching, so he´ll have to rely on someone making sure the start and stop at the exact 0% - 100% length of the string pulled.
that to me seems like it´s just going to be carrying over lots of human error (I suppose we could standardise it, but not with 10-20 attempts definitely)
2. we normally (or at least I don´t) don´t pull the string 100% to avoid early breakages i´ll be difficult to see if one time we pulled it 96%, 94% and so on.
on top of all this if your plan it´s to do a proper reading of RPMs and try to be a bit more scientific about it by all means keep trying, but if what you really want to see is which launcher is plain better.
that´s good enough, even if the loose rpms when first launched, even if the laser beam its not calibrated properly or even if we don´t know how to take a proper reading, that error is carried over all the readings (so we can call it a standard) whatever looks faster, it is faster (doesn´t matter what errors we have, all the samples have the same errors)
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Takowowo - Nov. 30, 2016
Wooo astute, observations. So these are the kinds of things that'd you'd actually log when considering the experiment. My original intent in developing this is mostly for comparison sake.
Regarding time. I intended time to be constant. while this certainly doesn't make sense practically it would give you comparative RPMs. So you would plug in time as something like 1 second to obtain a max RPM given that time. Alternatively, because you wouldn't pull the full length of the Heavy launcher in the same time you would the Speed launcher, you could set a specific RPM and solve for the time, which would tell you how fast you'd need to pull to obtain that RPM.
This is essentially how experimentation works. An equation is derived for how something should work and experiments are run to see how it holds up. Yes of course there are things like not using the full string length but what I assume we all want to know is ultimately how the launchers compare. Sure we want to know which one is better but I darn sure want to know why.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - model850 - Nov. 30, 2016
Here's a scheme for simple testing rig. Insted of cutting the string you could just drop the weight, but this way ripcord is under the tension all the time. String should be cut closer to the ripcord to avoid potential jaming of the sting within the launcher.
Do couple of these measures and let the gravity do the work! ;-)
![[Image: Beyblade_testing_rig.png]](https://s14.postimg.org/usshazh69/Beyblade_testing_rig.png)
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Izhkoort - Nov. 30, 2016
did you calculate how much weight and fall would it need to generate rpms enough so the beyblade achieves maximum RPMs?
It would be nice to be has easy has using a weight, but our arms generate much more force than the fall of an heavy object
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - model850 - Nov. 30, 2016
(Nov. 30, 2016 4:13 PM)Izhkoort Wrote: did you calculate how much weight and fall would it need to generate rpms enough so the beyblade achieves maximum RPMs?
It would be nice to be has easy has using a weight, but our arms generate much more force than the fall of an heavy object
I didn't calculate anything, I'm just proposing a solution to the problems mentioned before.
Our arms generate force depending on the muscle volume but value given on this forum ( https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/43514 ) suggest 100-200 N. That's equivalent of 10 kg weight.
Whatever the weight (it could be 5kg) as long as it is consistent it should give us some vaules that could be compared between launchers. It's the relative difference in performance that we measure not it's maximal possible values. Afterall RPM values are highly dependant on pulling force so values vary from person to person (strong and weak).
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - exodia0 - Nov. 30, 2016
let´s try and put numbers to this.
after looking around I´ve found consensus that the average human pulling strength is around 100-200 N (pushing is 400 - 600)
the problem lies in gravity, gravity is an extremely weak force (we feel it because the earth is massive) so applying the formula: F = m . a
F being the force you would expect from an average human pulling, m being the mass you would have to drop to achieve the same force with an acceleration a (which is 9,8 m/s2 in this planet)
150 (just to be in the middle of 100 - 200) = m . 9,8 m/s2
is around 15 kilograms you would need to attach from the string, that´s a lot!.
obviously all this is possible, I´m only trying to see if it actually is practical for any of us to do, for example I´m packing right now because I´m moving house and I have a parcel full of books and heavy stuff and it´s like 60 x 60 x 50 cm and its 17kg, so it may be difficult or impractical trying to attach something that needs to be that big (in order to be that heavy) to the string.
I suppose it could be done with lead (fishing weights) if my calculations are right you will need about a cube of lead 11,5 x 11,5 x 11,5 cms (roughly) which is still quite a lot)
edit: but as model 850 said when I was typing all this XD, you don´t need max speed, or max rmps, as long as you have and accurate way of knowing everything has the same set up for every launcher the results should be proportional (albeit you can expect lots of broken launchers if you drop a weight on free fall without a way of stopping before reaching the end, I suppose you could measure the cord and place the launcher 2 cms closer to the ground, but I´m not too confident)
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - model850 - Nov. 30, 2016
As I said before relative performance is the key value. One could put 5 kg and do the measures. Results will show how each launcher performes relative to the other. If launcher B is 1.2 times better than launcher A one should use launcher B. If launcher C is 2 times better than A than obviously launcher C is the best among the bunch.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Izhkoort - Nov. 30, 2016
them to make it more plausible I would do this with your idea:
when the string is cut it shouldn't pull the string/ripcord until it has reach it's freefall speed, and stop it abruptably if it's a string launcher when reaching the end of the string, the problem still is the weight, if you need 15 kg, it would be needed to see if it's possible with 5 has you said, but if there is something heavy enough, it should be used that instead. Also the pulley should be really well oiled when doing a test like this
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - bdablader95 - Dec. 02, 2016
Sorry for the late reply. Toys R Us just put me as full time plus its finals week at my college and I'm taking 4 classes lol.
Heres a test video. If you would like any more information on the Tachometer I'm using, feel free to ask.
RE: Testing all the special Burst launchers for average RPM - Kai-V - Dec. 02, 2016
(Dec. 02, 2016 9:58 AM)bdablader95 Wrote: Sorry for the late reply. Toys R Us just put me as full time plus its finals week at my college and I'm taking 4 classes lol.
Heres a test video. If you would like any more information on the Tachometer I'm using, feel free to ask.
It looks like you forgot to add the video hah.