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+--- Thread: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft (/Thread-BB-126-Flash-Sagittario-230WD-Rough-Draft)
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Ultra - Mar. 31, 2012
Yeah but Variares doesn't have too much since it's top tier...
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Imperial - Apr. 02, 2012
Quote:Flash originally was meant to be released as a Stamina Metal Wheel"Flash was originally meant..." would sound better.
Quote:The core is also another ovalYou should capatilize "core", since that is what it is done in the rest of the paragraph.
Quote:4 small protrusionsIt would be better to put it as "four".
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2012
(Mar. 31, 2012 7:16 PM)Ultra Wrote: Yeah but Variares doesn't have too much since it's top tier...
Actually, it does for a lot of people, including me: recoil is the main issue that causes a lot of people, including myself, to have Variares incapable of beating MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS. Generally, a lot of cases it does have too much recoil. It's more that it has enough power to KO things when it doesn't Self-KO.
Even flash has a fair bit of recoil, due to the way it attacks, but all the weight being towards the edge, and on the impact points, it's not that bad. Still, wouldn't call flash a low-recoil wheel, it does Dual KO a lot and it does need to KO early usually.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Raigeko13 - Apr. 04, 2012
Imperial
Fixed those errors.
@th!nk
Yeah, I guess Flash isn't a "low recoil" wheel, but for the general attack type, it does have significantly less than previous top tiers. Without that recoil though, there are near zero late game Self KO's.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 05, 2012
It has more recoil than lightning.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Raigeko13 - Apr. 05, 2012
From my experience it doesn't.
Bleh, you're probably right anyway. I'll edit it next time I'm on a computer.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 05, 2012
Depends what you're against, obviously, but against things of each beyblade's time periods, LLD has significantly lower recoil.
Flash's recoil is mostly rotational, though, look at its movement once it lands a hit. It does still have regular recoil, but the rotational recoil is really bad for it. However, it has that much power that nothing lasts long enough for it to run out of juice.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Raigeko13 - Apr. 05, 2012
Removed the section about the low recoil.
Still waiting for Dan to get his up, since he can write more about the MW.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Shabalabadoo - Apr. 05, 2012
I'll get to it tomorrow homeboy, unless you've already started, Dan?
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 06, 2012
I'd suggest you get onto it Shaba. I don't think Dan is that motivated to contribute right now. Given the way things are in this subforum/with the project, I don't blame him tbh.
I'll read it over when you've done it and see if there's anything to add on the MW Parts.
Might also be worth reading this: http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Flash-discussion?pid=933006#pid933006
My thoughts on CW's there (i.e. lop out any mention of Flash with Sagittario 2 that's a horrible idea. Use Escolpio/Pisces/Orion)
Also, I'd definitely use an MF-H on the combo, given that's one of the best counters for rotational recoil which is flash's main concern. As for the "best" flash combo, I am not completely sold on H145, D125 and S130 are my main picks.
I think it's also very much worth mentioning the fact it is effective on Metal Flat, given how unique that is. MF-H Flash Orion AD145MF would be the combo I'd suggest to exemplify that.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Kai-V - Apr. 08, 2012
Hm, yo, had you seen that I had written a stub for this Beyblade already, as usual ? I tried correcting some things quickly in your draft, but you did not even include much of what I wrote about, so it is difficult to do simple edits ... Can you look on Beywiki and rearrange your draft to fit what has already been published ?
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Shabalabadoo - Apr. 09, 2012
So then, working off the stub and adding all of Raigeko13's stuff:
Quote:Flash Sagittario 230WD is the last 4D release, as well as the last regular release for Metal Fight Beyblade before the beginning of Beyblade Zero-G. It marks the end of the BB- code product line.
Face: Sagittario II
The Face of this Beyblade depicts Sagittarius, one of the Zodiac signs. In addition to the original mark design, a bright explosion was drawn behind the two eyes of Sagittario, to create a link with the 4D Metal Wheel it is released with, Flash.
4D Clear Wheel: Sagittario II
Weight: 3.3 grams
It is possible to observe many bows and arrows designed into the Sagittario II 4D Clear Wheel, similar to the original Sagittario Clear Wheel which Sagittario II is largely based on. It is neon orange in colour.
4D Metal Wheel: Flash
Weight: 45.6 grams
In coordination with the theme of the Sagittario II 4D Clear Wheel, Flash is an assembly of many bow-and-arrow illustrations. The gimmick used for Flash's mode change is not new at all, despite TAKARA-TOMY's designers having more creative ideas originally.
Metal Frame
Flash's Metal Frame resembles the Flame Metal Wheel a lot. It is rather oval, and half of its sides consist in a large and very thick slope. Its underside is mostly empty however, which takes away most of its potential weight.
Core
This piece looks very similar to its Metal Frame, however there is much less relief in it: while the Metal Frame has slopes, Flash's Core is completely flat. This detail means that its underside is entirely filled though, otherwise it could suffer from breakage issues.
In Stamina Mode, the two bow-and-arrows from the Metal Frame are perpendicular to those of the Core. This mode creates a four-winged shape.
Once the Metal Frame is rotated by 90°, the Attack Mode is achieved, where the two bow-and-arrow designs of the Core are exactly under the Metal Frame's. The resulting shape of the Flash 4D Metal Wheel is one that is exaggerately elongated. However, most of Flash's weight becomes focused on two distinctive sides, which conveys to it a substantial Flywheel Effect, and since both metal parts are one on top of the other, the 4D Metal Wheel becomes much denser.
This mode change is possible because of the existence of some small walls on the underside of the Metal Frame.
Flash was released to be a Stamina Metal Wheel, but testing has proved otherwise. Its full potential has been found in Attack Customizations, providing top-tier results because of its outwards weight and minimal Recoil. The only Recoil that Flash suffers from is opposite to the direction of rotation, but this also insinuates that incredible force is produced with each hit. It is also not an issue because of the minimal outwards Recoil, as Flash does a great job at pushing through opposing Beyblades. Flash works well on a variety of Tracks from 105-145 as long as the main contact points are not obscured by Tracks such as BD145, or other Tracks with poor synergy.
Use In Attack Customization
A very popular Attack combo for Flash is MF-H Flash Escolpio/Pisces/Orion H145/GB145 RF/R2F. Optimum, top tier results can be achieved by choosing the Track that you feel most comfortable with, so that particular combo may not necessarily be the best for you. Another popular yet unique combo, utilizing the Metal Flat Bottom, is MF-H Flash Excolpio/Pisces/Orion AD145MF. It is better for late-battle KO's than the RF version, and even can outspin some rubber Bottoms. Furthermore, Metal Flat assists in creating a movement pattern that allows more hits to be made, increasing chances of a Knock-Out. The MF combo is not necessarily better than the RF combo, but both have their advantages and disadvantages that should be taken into consideration when selecting a combo.
Overall
Flash Sagittario 230WD contains very useful parts. Flash is now one of the best Attack Metal Wheels in the Metagame. With previous top tier Attack Beyblades, Recoil was a problem that made Attack Types a lot less reliable. Flash is a great Metal Wheel in this regard, being less prone to self KO's than current top tier Beyblades such as VariAres. 230 silenced a great majority of previously dominant Stamina, Defense and Attack combos upon release, and is great for Phantom Stamina or Defense combos. Flash Sagittario also comes with WD, a top-tier Stamina Bottom. Every Blader should at least own one of this Beyblade.
I did however, put the mode change stuff after the Core section. Please mention if I missed anything from the stub or Raigeko13's draft, I just have this odd feeling that I missed something. (yes I know I took out the 230 and WD sections, haha)
There actually wasn't much to change, haha.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Kai-V - Apr. 09, 2012
Well, there were a few details in Raigeko13's draft that were not necessarily in my stub, so to me it was not a matter of simply copy and pasting, and deleting entire paragraphs.
Raigeko13, what is your opinion on this combined draft ? Besides repetitions of concepts between your draft and the stub, do you think that there is anything that Shabalabadoo might have forgotten from your draft ?
It seems decent, if Raigeko13 (or anybody else who knows his draft's content really well) answers positively to the above questions. The only things that have to be modified, in my opinion, is :
- We could write, in the introduction, that it is the last of the BB- product lineup, because technically Metal Fight Beyblade continues, this is very confusing on TAKARA-TOMY's part;
- In the "Use in Attack Customizations", write it as if Flash was already top-tier, so VariAres is arguable for current top-tier or not;
- Describe how the MF combination acts in comparison;
- Describe why Flash works well for Attack, specifically;
- Write about the lack of Recoil in the 4D Metal Wheel section, not just in the Overall section.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Shabalabadoo - Apr. 09, 2012
If somebody provides the info for those questions, I can fill it in!
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 09, 2012
Variares would still be top-tier, but only for people who don't suffer from whatever it is a lot of us suffer from (I call it "not-Dan Syndrome"). It also has the dual spin thing, but I wouldn't even knock blitz off, they're still great wheels.
MF provides better late-Game performance in terms of KO's. The weight distribution of Flash also makes the movement pattern kind of "oval", so you're more likely to hit an opponent than you'd normally be with MF (which is kinda awkward to control sometimes). The survival boost is nice too, though Flash has really bad stamina, it can still get you over the line against rubber tips.
Flash working well for attack, I think anyone who has one can see that. The mid section, if you cut it off into the widest circle possible without having any spaces, is basically rather thin, and then at either side of that, i.e. towards the edge, lies most of the weight. This does mean rotational recoil becomes a concern (i.e. you struggle to maintain a high RPM after contact) but it also means each hit carries tremendous force because most of the weight is behind it. While rotational recoil is an issue, traditional recoil (flying back from collisions), isn't, because it tends to push "through" opponents because of the force it carries. It holds its ground really well after collisions (though it generally pauses, that's more the rotational recoil).
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Shabalabadoo - Apr. 11, 2012
(Apr. 09, 2012 2:10 AM)Kai-V Wrote: - We could write, in the introduction, that it is the last of the BB- product lineup, because technically Metal Fight Beyblade continues, this is very confusing on TAKARA-TOMY's part;
- In the "Use in Attack Customizations", write it as if Flash was already top-tier, so VariAres is arguable for current top-tier or not;
- Describe how the MF combination acts in comparison;
- Describe why Flash works well for Attack, specifically;
- Write about the lack of Recoil in the 4D Metal Wheel section, not just in the Overall section.
All completed sergeant. I'm very happy with the additions!
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Raigeko13 - Apr. 12, 2012
I apologize for the late response. I also apologize for not noticing there was a stub up. I really like the edits that were made, and it's definitely more professional than mine. If you would, could you edit the OP for me Kai-V?
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Kai-V - Apr. 12, 2012
The only thing left is to confirm what I have added to the Clear Wheel section, but I think otherwise everything below is ready to be published.
Quote:Flash Sagittario 230WD is the last 4D release, as well as the last regular release for Metal Fight Beyblade before the beginning of Beyblade Zero-G. It marks the end of the BB- code product line.
Face: Sagittario II
The Face of this Beyblade depicts Sagittarius, one of the Zodiac signs. In addition to the original mark design, a bright explosion was drawn behind the two eyes of Sagittario, to create a link with the 4D Metal Wheel it is released with, Flash.
4D Clear Wheel: Sagittario II
Weight: 3.3 grams
It is possible to observe many bows and arrows designed into the Sagittario II 4D Clear Wheel, similar to the original Sagittario Clear Wheel which Sagittario II is largely based on. It is neon orange in colour. Competitively, this Clear Wheel offers no extraordinary plus for any of the combination types, and is therefore not recommendable for anything.
4D Metal Wheel: Flash
Weight: 45.6 grams
In coordination with the theme of the Sagittario II 4D Clear Wheel, Flash is an assembly of many bow-and-arrow illustrations. The gimmick used for Flash's mode change is not new at all, despite TAKARA-TOMY's designers having more creative ideas originally.
Metal Frame
Flash's Metal Frame resembles the Flame Metal Wheel a lot. It is rather oval, and half of its sides consist in a large and very thick slope. Its underside is mostly empty however, which takes away most of its potential weight. Flash's mode change is possible because of the existence of some small walls on the underside of the Metal Frame.
Core
This piece looks very similar to its Metal Frame, however there is much less relief in it: while the Metal Frame has slopes, Flash's Core is completely flat. This detail means that its underside is entirely filled though, otherwise it could suffer from breakage issues.
----
*'''Stamina Mode'''
In Stamina Mode, the two bow-and-arrows from the Metal Frame are perpendicular to those of the Core. This mode creates a four-winged shape.
*'''Attack Mode'''
Once the Metal Frame is rotated by 90°, the Attack Mode is achieved, where the two bow-and-arrow designs of the Core are exactly under the Metal Frame's. The resulting shape of the Flash 4D Metal Wheel is one that is exaggerately elongated. However, most of Flash's weight becomes focused on two distinctive sides, which conveys to it a substantial Flywheel Effect, and since both metal parts are one on top of the other, the 4D Metal Wheel becomes much denser.
----
Flash was released to be a Stamina Metal Wheel, but testing has proved otherwise. Its full potential has been found in Attack Customizations, providing top-tier results because of its outwards weight and minimal Recoil. The only Recoil that Flash suffers from is opposite to the direction of rotation, but this also insinuates that incredible force is produced with each hit. It is also not an issue because of the minimal outwards Recoil, as Flash does a great job at pushing through opposing Beyblades. Flash works well on a variety of Tracks from 105-145 as long as the main contact points are not obscured by Tracks such as BD145, or other Tracks with poor synergy to it.
Use In Attack Customization
A very popular Attack combo for Flash is MF-H Flash Escolpio/Pisces/Orion H145/GB145 RF/R2F. Optimum, top tier results can be achieved by choosing the Track that you feel most comfortable with, so that particular combo may not necessarily be the best for you. Another popular yet unique combo, utilizing the Metal Flat Bottom, is MF-H Flash Excolpio/Pisces/Orion AD145MF. It is better for late-battle KO's than the RF version, and even can outspin some rubber Bottoms since metal has less friction than rubber. Furthermore, Metal Flat assists in creating a movement pattern that allows more hits to be made, increasing chances of a Knock-Out. The MF combo is not necessarily better than the RF combo, but both have their advantages and disadvantages that should be taken into consideration when selecting a combo.
Overall
Flash Sagittario 230WD contains very useful parts. Flash is now one of the best Attack Metal Wheels in the regular Metal Fight Beyblade Metagame. With previous top tier Attack Beyblades, Recoil was a problem that made Attack Types a lot less reliable. Flash is a great Metal Wheel in this regard, being less prone to self KO's than other top tier Beyblades such as VariAres. 230 silenced a great majority of previously dominant Stamina, Defense and Attack combos upon release, and is great for Phantom Stamina or Defense combos. Flash Sagittario also comes with WD, a top-tier Stamina Bottom. '''Every Blader should at least own one of this Beyblade.'''
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Apr. 12, 2012
Saggitario 2 is decently heavy (3.2g vs 3.28g for my Bull) and looks to be decently distributed. There are better options for defense, stamina, I haven't seen any testing of it.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Kai-V - Apr. 12, 2012
Can anybody who owns Sagittario II and who browses this topic test it ... ?
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Fantomu - Jun. 12, 2012
Here they are :
Stadium : MFB Attack Stadium
Launcher : Beylauncher
B: D Condition : Mint
Phantom Cancer B: D
Highest spin time : 5.02.83
Lowest spin time : 4.59.78
Phantom Saggitario II B: D
Highest Spin Time : 4.25.20
Lowest Spin Time : 4.22.45
Tested 4 times each.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - DefStamina88 - Jun. 12, 2012
(Jun. 12, 2012 9:59 AM)potato Wrote: Here they are :
Stadium : MFB Attack Stadium
Launcher : Beylauncher
B: D Condition : Mint
Phantom Cancer B: D
Highest spin time : 5.02.83
Lowest spin time : 4.59.78
Phantom Saggitario II B: D
Highest Spin Time : 4.25.20
Lowest Spin Time : 4.22.45
Tested 4 times each.
Ah, but Cancer goes Exceptionally good with Phantom...
Here are my tests, Using a formerly good defense combo:
Spin Time, AVG. of 5 launches...
Basalt Aquario 230CS' Spin Time: 2:39:76
Basalt SGTO 2's Spin Time: 2: 39:03
Format:
Spoiler (Click to View)
Basalt Aquario 230CS VS MF-H Wing Kerbecs BD145CS
Basalt: 13/20 (All OS)
Wing: 7/20 (All OS)
Win %: 65%
Basalt SGTO 2 230CS VS MF-H Wing Kerbecs BD145CS
Basalt: 14/20 (All OS)
Wing: 6/20 (All OS)
Win %: 70%
Almost Equal for my Defense testings... :\
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - th!nk - Jun. 12, 2012
The trouble with CS testing, especially for stamina, is that it is probably the least consistent tip in beyblade, so stamina tests with it are really unreliable.
That said, those spin times weren't really bad, given cancer usually does much, much better against aquario, so it could very well be a decent choice for survival (and probably defense) customs.
Thanks very, very much potato.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Raigeko13 - Jun. 12, 2012
If I had something viable to test, I'd test it, haha. Thank you both for the tests.
I think we will need a few more tests before I can actually add something in.
RE: BB-126 Flash Sagittario 230WD Rough Draft - Kai-V - Aug. 17, 2012
OK, this should definitely be an article that is published already, hah.
For Sagittario II, I think we can generally say that it is very decent in Stamina, but that other, more "solid" Clear Wheels are prefered anyway, for some slightly better weight distribution. And that, even on Flash, other Clear Wheels are slightly better.