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+-- Forum: Beyblade Discussion (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-Discussion)
+--- Forum: Beyblade General (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Beyblade-General)
+--- Thread: Should we ban Basalt? (/Thread-Should-we-ban-Basalt--38423)
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
Okay, people are not understanding the point here, so obviously, I must spell it out. Basalt is the best part, though not unbeatable. That is not the issue. The issue is that Basalt takes the customization part out of the game, and allows zero deviation from types, to use Kei's words.
EDIT: Thank you, Kai-V.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Arctic - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 8:34 PM)taz465 Wrote: I fink that all u guys are worried about being beaten by and inexperience kid because that's what it sounds like
You only want to keep basalt because its the only way you can win. All you have to do is show up to a tournament with basalt and your nearly guaranteed a win. Soon enough as Temporal said basalt is going to be spammed and all the matches will be Basalt vs Basalt.
The game will no longer be fun or about skill just who launches harder.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
This is the real issue here. People seem to jump on a bandwagon without looking at the facts, and that is actually a main reason why this was done in the advanced forum first.
On the state of this thread right now: You'd think that with all of the pushing to get this put here, people wouldn't simply flame other people for disagreeing, but this is what is happening. Put forth an intelligent argument, and refute other points. That is all that needs to be done in a discussion. When you personally attack others, like Spin Sonic and Taz465 are doing, you seem unintelligent. Not agreeing with me, that's no problem. But please, do NOT flame others. And at least have some respect for other opinions.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 8:31 PM)taz465 Wrote:(Aug. 15, 2011 8:29 PM)Ultrablader Wrote:Well that's ur problem u can wait for other beys, or get practicing(Aug. 15, 2011 8:15 PM)taz465 Wrote: That's why we should wait for phantom Orion to come out
We're not waiting a month and a half for that dude.
How is it my problem? I'm not the only one who thinks this way you know.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Temporal - Aug. 15, 2011
Leave it, Ultrablader. He's been warned for the posts, so no point in continuing.
Another point I'd like to raise again, that people seem to forget. How many wheels and parts has Basalt made useless? I can't count them, there are WAY too many. Before, I'd be respected at a tournament with a MF Leone H145RF. Now, I'd be laughed at. Why? MF-H Basalt Bull BD145MB/CS. Basalt in general, really.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
I hadn't seen the warning when I posted that.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - taz465 - Aug. 15, 2011
All I was doing is posting what I fink and how I feel I about this, because I mean beyblades are meant to be played with sent they
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Arctic - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 8:49 PM)Temporal Wrote: Leave it, Ultrablader. He's been warned for the posts, so no point in continuing.
Another point I'd like to raise again, that people seem to forget. How many wheels and parts has Basalt made useless? I can't count them, there are WAY too many. Before, I'd be respected at a tournament with a MF Leone H145RF. Now, I'd be laughed at. Why? MF-H Basalt Bull BD145MB/CS. Basalt in general, really.
Vulcan, Ray, Rock, Saggitario, and screw?
If something isn't done the overpowered maximum will become the only competitive parts and the older parts will be useless
Personally i think that if basalts banned/ Restricted Beat should be too. The next best part for deffense would be Earth and Beat would destroy it.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai-V - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 8:57 PM)taz465 Wrote: All I was doing is posting what I fink and how I feel I about this, because I mean beyblades are meant to be played with sent they
Continue with stupid reasoning like that and you will definitely get a suspension. Tornado Battlers are meant to be played with as well, but they are obviously illegal.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai_hiwitari - Aug. 15, 2011
does anyone else see all these posts of people saying "Dont ban this i NEED this to win" at what point to we realize most are using basalt as a crutch rather then a tool. At what point do we saying advanced competition is being flooded with people using one top just because its overpowered. It just seems silly to continue to allow something thats obviously only being used because of superiority in weight and distribution. How is it competitive if people are using the same thing, how is this diversifying the game?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai-V - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 9:33 PM)Kai_hiwitari Wrote: does anyone else see all these posts of people saying "Dont ban this i NEED this to win" at what point to we realize most are using basalt as a crutch rather. At what point do we saying advanced competition is being flooded with people using one top just because its overpowered. It just seems silly to continue to allow something thats obviously only being used because of superiority in weight and distribution. How is it competitive if people are using the same thing, how is this diversifying the game?
Hm, not all of those against banning Basalt constantly or even use Basalt in tournaments.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Kai_hiwitari - Aug. 15, 2011
-double post, sorry-
(Aug. 15, 2011 9:34 PM)Kai-V Wrote:(Aug. 15, 2011 9:33 PM)Kai_hiwitari Wrote: does anyone else see all these posts of people saying "Dont ban this i NEED this to win" at what point to we realize most are using basalt as a crutch rather. At what point do we saying advanced competition is being flooded with people using one top just because its overpowered. It just seems silly to continue to allow something thats obviously only being used because of superiority in weight and distribution. How is it competitive if people are using the same thing, how is this diversifying the game?
Hm, not all of those against banning Basalt constantly or even use Basalt in tournaments.
I'm not saying everyone does, i personally wouldnt use basalt in a tournament but i just feel like were promoting the dumbing down of competitive gameplay by allowing people who have no interest in advancing as a player compete at a level they are not personally at.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Taj12 - Aug. 15, 2011
A problem with the purchasing beyblades are the cost. Many parents are unsupportive of this hobby and won't let you buy that many beys. Others are supportive but do not understand the need for a large diversity of parts and think they are all the same, just with a different colour or shape. So what do we do? We buy as little parts as possible, the most powerful parts as possible. Buy Basalt horogium or twisted tempo, hell kerbecs and ray unicorno or ray striker and your done. You won't even consider to buy a BB-10 looking at the cost. If parents were a little more supportive, this may never have happened for the majority of us bladers. But then again, thats life. Banning Basalt would result in a dilemma for most of us with perhaps only one other combo to resort to, which in our current metagame is quite vulnerable.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
Yes let's not ban basalt because no one can afford any beys. That's a great reason to keep the metagame in the bad shape that it is.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - HollowPerseus - Aug. 15, 2011
Alright, you know what? I don't own a Basalt, But I went up against a few August 13. MF-H Basalt Aquario BD145CS and MF-H Basalt Aquario 230CS were one of the many basalt combos I've went up against. Almost every Defense Based or Stamina Based combo I saw was Basalt.(Only 2 Scythe BD145EDS and Hell Kerbecs BD145EDS) It's not even Defense Type anymore. It's Basalt Type.
But Really, We should at least attempt to at least Find Combos that can destroy it. At the Palisades, Deikailo showed me what Blitz can do to it, how it uses it's weight against it. I'm not saying Ban it, in fact I'm confused....(I'll edit this later) The thing is, Alot of people want to take the Easy Way out, and that's not healthy for the Metagame.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Pony - Aug. 15, 2011
I've decided to fight again. I'm not going to wait a month and a half for an answer, I'll make an answer myself. I'm getting Basalt Horoguim because I never knew how overpowered it was, and I have my duotron launcher and other beys. I'll test basalt against some of my best combinations and see what happens. Anybody happy?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - JesseObre - Aug. 15, 2011
i dont think we should ban it i just got it 2 weeks ago
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Ultra - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 11:22 PM)JesseObre Wrote: i dont think we should ban it i just got it 2 weeks ago
We don't need rediculous and selfish reasoning like that.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Hazel - Aug. 15, 2011
There seems to be a large number of people who think the minority of people who can beat Basalt are what the metagame is about. As much as I'm sure that thought would appeal to you, it's fundamentally flawed. Rule changes should always be made for the better of the majority - and the fact of the matter is the majority are abusing Basalt and making it much more difficult for the minority and everyone else in the majority, which then forces those players to conform or stay home.
The amount of "well everyone else should train and learn to use attack types" idealism going around is pretty upsetting, since reality should be considerably more apparent to people. You don't make rules based on an idealized version of the metagame, you make rules based on the reality of it.
90% abuses it, 10% knows how not to. You never, ever vote in favor of 10%, if you're really trying to promote a healthy, happy, enjoyable metagame for everyone in the fandom to participate in. It's a basic logical fact, which is admittedly all I can really point out here, given my limited experience.
Yes, some people will decide to quit because they can't use Basalt. And yes, other people, if Basalt stayed in play, would learn how to beat it. On the other hand, most Basalt users would move on, and a lot of people likely already avoid some events because of Basalt's current usage.
It's not worth leaving the meta in ruins for the sake of teaching ten or twenty people to beat Basalt.
Keep in mind this is all from the viewpoint of someone getting into it that DOESN'T want to take the easy way in or out; I've been practicing nonstop since I got my MFB, researching combos, which parts are prone to breaking, etc. And I do intend on getting to the point where I can beat Basalt with certain combos - possibly even reliably. However, that point is a long way off for me.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Meow! - Aug. 15, 2011
(Aug. 15, 2011 11:22 PM)JesseObre Wrote: i dont think we should ban it i just got it 2 weeks ago
Thats not the point. the point is that this is way too overpowered and a very little amount of beyblades can consistently defeat it. I would like too hold of the ban however until B:D gets released as it could change everything. There is no point banning it for a couple months. If B:D proves to be not so great I would consider a ban on it being that rubber ball may prove to be very good. RB stopped beat even on a mere jade.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - edphoenix - Aug. 15, 2011
Having a single part that significantly outclasses a whopping 6+ metal wheels, a number of them previously among the top tiers, definitely isn't healthy for the metagame.
My first suggestion would have been to restrict its use: ban the use of certain parts that can be used with Basalt, enforce a weight limit, etc. I'd much rather find some way to discourage its use in favor of other metal wheels but, seeing as how that's not feasible, I'm going to join the proponents for the ban.
A diverse meta is a healthy meta and Basalt essentially restricts and defines the current one. I feel like removing Basalt from the competitive scene would promote other customizations to flourish since it would make Earth, Libra, Flame, Virgo, and Burn viable Defense and Stamina parts once again and give Scythe and Jade the chance to shine.
Yes, the Basalt ban could very well open the door for attack combos that can devastate and shift the metagame into an entirely different direction but it would also encourage more use of the metal wheels Basalt rendered obsolete. More effective attack type combos plus more parts that can be used to construct competitive defense and stamina combos, in theory, equals a diverse and healthy metagame.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - DSNoise - Aug. 15, 2011
Forgive me for not going through 18 pages of discussion before posting. (I did, however, read the advanced forum version of the thread.)
First: I'm shocked and confused. While I haven't entered any tournaments since my entry into Beyblade (a short 2 months ago) I had the preconceived notion that Attack type builds were by far the most widely used between the trifecta of Attack, Stamina and Defense. Or at the very least, I thought they were the best types to use as MFB simply lent Attack types more of an advantage over either Defense or Stamina.
Now regarding the banning itself: If, say Basalt is so heavily dominating that this discussion had to be brought up, would its banning eventually lead to an UN-banning of Libra? (Being reasonable, a re-evaluation towards its banning should be looked into after release of Phantom Orion, as I'm sure many may have suggested already.)
I assume that the metagame has evolved enough so that at the very least, similar tactics used to take down Basalt should have no issues with Libra, if Basalt is indeed on a level much higher than Libra ever was. As I'm making conjectures based merely on things I've read on the forums while lurking, I apologize if I'm mistaken on any of these points or assumptions I've made so far.
Edit: I had no idea Libra was unbanned! Are there any other banned parts currently?
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - Hazel - Aug. 15, 2011
I'm fairly certain Libra has been unbanned for a good while now, actually.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - MarcoThePhoenix - Aug. 16, 2011
Basically, Temporal and most of the other bladers against basalt are saying that Basalt will be the apocalypse of beyblade due to lack in diversity and a lower victory rate for those who go against it, but like all parts Basalt will eventually be outclassed and therefor obsolete so there will be no point to banning it once 4D beys become the popular bey of choice and then once another "Unbeatable' part comes out it'll be banned and then the next one and the next one. We might as well ban every part that is or is better than basalt, and another point is that Basalt will just trigger an "Evolution" in bladers in which we adapt and adjust ourselves accordingly by finding new ways to defeat basalt, banning it would put that to a complete and utter standstill and then beyblade will become boring due to the lack of change and variety in bladers, because variety in beyblade is pointless without a variety in bladers.
RE: Should we ban Basalt? - edphoenix - Aug. 16, 2011
(Aug. 16, 2011 12:07 AM)MarcoThePhoenix Wrote: Basically, Temporal and most of the other bladers against basalt are saying that Basalt will be the apocalypse of beyblade due to lack in diversity and a lower victory rate for those who go against it, but like all parts Basalt will eventually be outclassed and therefor obsolete so there will be no point to banning it once 4D beys become the popular bey of choice and then once another "Unbeatable' part comes out it'll be banned and then the next one and the next one. We might as well ban every part that is or is better than basalt.
Libra was banned and reintroduced when attack types evolved and were able to catch up to the level of its strength. Why can't Basalt be banned until a better variety of attack, defense, and stamina wheels are released that can rival its power? Do you even know when Takara Tomy will release a Beyblade with parts that can outclass Basalt? It's not like the moment Basalt is banned, TT will immediately announce a Beyblade with a better metal wheel.
Furthermore, it seems to me you're assuming that any part that trumps one of Basalt's strengths will be automatically be "undefeatable." As already stated, Basalt is a beast in both defense and stamina. If a metal wheel with better defense is released, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be able to outspin stamina wheels. If a metal wheel with better stamina is released, it doesn't necessarily mean it can withstand a majority of attacks like Basalt can. Of course, Takara Tomy can prove me wrong anytime they feel like it.