(May. 18, 2023  2:21 PM)GodzillaFan101 Wrote: I dont wanna cliffhanger. Just good riddance to the burst series

(May. 19, 2023  4:47 AM)BondsofTime Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  3:08 AM)Admiral W Wrote: Valt literally got stripped of his title as the World Champion in that battle. Further, as I mentioned in my previous comment, that battle ultimately did nothing for Bell's character. He was never striving to be the champ and he had a non existent rivalry with Valt. His story was effectively over when he defeated Rashad. That was consequential, that was set up, that had real narrative weight. The battle with Valt didn't. Hiro Morita simply decided to tack this battle with Valt on at the end. There was no set up, no lead up in Bell's story bringing us to this moment. It simply happened. It was, as I also said earlier, unnecessary.

There were several ways to bring Burst to it's conclusion in the manga without throwing Valt under the bus like that.

So I was right, you are just mad Valt lost to Bell. Like I said before, neither Valt or Bell was done dirty with this ending. Bell finished his story winning his battles, Valt is still the legend of legends. The world championship was insignificant in DB's manga anyways. Again, it was Bell's rivalry that ended when he beat Rashad, not his story. Bell had one more battle left with Valt. This marks the end of his story. If Hiro Morita didn't want Bell to face Valt one more time he wouldn't have made it the manga ending so your argument that the battle was unnecessary is irrelevant. At the end of the day Valt wasn't thrown under the bus just because he lost to Bell and it didn't ruin the manga to have Bell end his story winning. You just didn't like the ending.

(May. 19, 2023  1:33 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  4:47 AM)BondsofTime Wrote: So I was right, you are just mad Valt lost to Bell. Like I said before, neither Valt or Bell was done dirty with this ending. Bell finished his story winning his battles, Valt is still the legend of legends. The world championship was insignificant in DB's manga anyways. Again, it was Bell's rivalry that ended when he beat Rashad, not his story. Bell had one more battle left with Valt. This marks the end of his story. If Hiro Morita didn't want Bell to face Valt one more time he wouldn't have made it the manga ending so your argument that the battle was unnecessary is irrelevant. At the end of the day Valt wasn't thrown under the bus just because he lost to Bell and it didn't ruin the manga to have Bell end his story winning. You just didn't like the ending.

There was absolutely no narrative weight to his beating Valt and becoming the champ. And if, as you say, the champion title was irrelevant, then that lends even more credence to the fact that the battle was unnecessary and didn't do anything for Bell's character. Also just because a writer puts something in a story doesn't mean it either makes sense or furthers the story in any meaningful way. Hiro Morita tacked that battle on at the end. Doesn't mean it was consequential just because he added it. Bell's story was over and he simply added that. Bell's rivalry with Rashad was the backbone of his entire story in the manga. His story was about that. Further I didn't say the entire manga was ruined. That ending is what's problematic. When telling a story narrative set up should lead to narrative pay off and each piece should progress character and story forward. That ending did neither of those things. Bell's story that has been set up during the run of the manga was already paid off in his battle with Rashad. That has narrative set up and pay off. That battle at the end didn't. It was unnecessary and threw Valt under the bus unnecessarily.

(May. 19, 2023  4:18 PM)BondsofTime Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  1:33 PM)Admiral W Wrote: There was absolutely no narrative weight to his beating Valt and becoming the champ. And if, as you say, the champion title was irrelevant, then that lends even more credence to the fact that the battle was unnecessary and didn't do anything for Bell's character. Also just because a writer puts something in a story doesn't mean it either makes sense or furthers the story in any meaningful way. Hiro Morita tacked that battle on at the end. Doesn't mean it was consequential just because he added it. Bell's story was over and he simply added that. Bell's rivalry with Rashad was the backbone of his entire story in the manga. His story was about that. Further I didn't say the entire manga was ruined. That ending is what's problematic. When telling a story narrative set up should lead to narrative pay off and each piece should progress character and story forward. That ending did neither of those things. Bell's story that has been set up during the run of the manga was already paid off in his battle with Rashad. That has narrative set up and pay off. That battle at the end didn't. It was unnecessary and threw Valt under the bus unnecessarily.

I get it. You're mad that battle happened and Valt lost. But that doesn't change the fact, regardless of how you feel about it, that Bell's last fight with Rashad was not the end of his story for him. It was the end of their rivalry, not trying to be rude at all, but please take the time to educate yourself and learn the difference because that's what you're not getting and or accepting and I'm tired of having to keep explaining that to you. 


The manga, and Bell's journey continued after this. Fact. He was literally involved in one final battle. Fact. Meaning there was more for him to do in his story. Fact again. Meaning that his story was not over yet. Yet another Fact. If Bell's story was over he would have never faced Valt. Oh look at that, another Fact. You keep saying they tacked on that battle but stop short of saying/accepting it as part of Bell's journey purely because you thought of it as unnecessary, most likely because Valt lost and you hate that. Get over yourself. I don't understand why we're even arguing this. I'll say this for the last time, nothing you say and no matter how angry it makes you, will change the fact that the creator himself ended Bell's story and the series with him beating Valt. Period. End of discussion. Man up and accept it.

But truthfully speaking, I wasn't even originally talking to you. "I didn't say the entire manga was ruined" I know. You didn't. g2_ made a that claim and I was responding to g2_'s reply. Hence why I've been saying that in my responses. You inserted yourself into someone else's conversation and decided to argue for him. I have been locked in this with you since and that was over 12 hrs ago. I no longer have time to spare on this tedious back and forth. Hopefully the next time we're speaking to each other(if we ever do talk again)we're not arguing over something silly. You have a nice day Admiral W.

(May. 19, 2023  5:04 PM)ScarletTurbo44 Wrote: ....💀, This is why I can't stand the fandom sometimes 😂. BondsofTime didn't even mention Valt by name, he was talking about Bell. And yet somehow someone got offended, and now we have this argument. Lmao. It's like kindergarten all over again.

(May. 19, 2023  5:03 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  4:18 PM)BondsofTime Wrote: I get it. You're mad that battle happened and Valt lost. But that doesn't change the fact, regardless of how you feel about it, that Bell's last fight with Rashad was not the end of his story for him. It was the end of their rivalry, not trying to be rude at all, but please take the time to educate yourself and learn the difference because that's what you're not getting and or accepting and I'm tired of having to keep explaining that to you. 


The manga, and Bell's journey continued after this. Fact. He was literally involved in one final battle. Fact. Meaning there was more for him to do in his story. Fact again. Meaning that his story was not over yet. Yet another Fact. If Bell's story was over he would have never faced Valt. Oh look at that, another Fact. You keep saying they tacked on that battle but stop short of saying/accepting it as part of Bell's journey purely because you thought of it as unnecessary, most likely because Valt lost and you hate that. Get over yourself. I don't understand why we're even arguing this. I'll say this for the last time, nothing you say and no matter how angry it makes you, will change the fact that the creator himself ended Bell's story and the series with him beating Valt. Period. End of discussion. Man up and accept it.

But truthfully speaking, I wasn't even originally talking to you. "I didn't say the entire manga was ruined" I know. You didn't. g2_ made a that claim and I was responding to g2_'s reply. Hence why I've been saying that in my responses. You inserted yourself into someone else's conversation and decided to argue for him. I have been locked in this with you since and that was over 12 hrs ago. I no longer have time to spare on this tedious back and forth. Hopefully the next time we're speaking to each other(if we ever do talk again)we're not arguing over something silly. You have a nice day Admiral W.

To begin I don't think you understand how narrative progression works. This difference you're trying to educate me on is springing from a lack of understanding on your end about narrative progression. Everything in a story should be progressing plot and character forward. Both at once. That's a fundamental principle of narrative momentum and story structure. As I've tried to explain to you more than once, that final battle had no narrative set up and wasn't paying anything off narratively. There are tent poles that must be set up, foundation that leads up to a conclusion. There was no narrative set up for this final confrontation and thus has no narrative weight in either character or story. These are core principles of storytelling.

There isn't a dispute that the manga panels including this battle with Valt and Bell exist. The point of problem is the fact that this battle contributed nothing to Bell's story. Bell's actual story, which had actual narrative set up and pay off concluded with his battle with Rashad. That battle with Rashad was actually set up and had foundation. Plot and character progressed leading to that moment. The same can't be said of the battle with Valt. Hiro Morita added this battle with Valt but it has no narrative weight to Bell. He wasn't striving for this battle, he had no rivalry with Valt. It isn't paying anything off for Bell. It has no weight in character or plot for Bel. It's also not dispute that the ending of manga will be changed. I never suggested it would be in anything I stated.

This is an open forum, anyone can respond to anything posted. It's in fact it's expected, especially here. It happens all the time. Further I didn't argue for g_2. I simply stated my opinion on the subject.

In addition if you felt it was silly you don't need to feel the need to respond.

(May. 19, 2023  5:13 PM)BondsofTime Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  5:03 PM)Admiral W Wrote: To begin I don't think you understand how narrative progression works. This difference you're trying to educate me on is springing from a lack of understanding on your end about narrative progression. Everything in a story should be progressing plot and character forward. Both at once. That's a fundamental principle of narrative momentum and story structure. As I've tried to explain to you more than once, that final battle had no narrative set up and wasn't paying anything off narratively. There are tent poles that must be set up, foundation that leads up to a conclusion. There was no narrative set up for this final confrontation and thus has no narrative weight in either character or story. These are core principles of storytelling.

There isn't a dispute that the manga panels including this battle with Valt and Bell exist. The point of problem is the fact that this battle contributed nothing to Bell's story. Bell's actual story, which had actual narrative set up and pay off concluded with his battle with Rashad. That battle with Rashad was actually set up and had foundation. Plot and character progressed leading to that moment. The same can't be said of the battle with Valt. Hiro Morita added this battle with Valt but it has no narrative weight to Bell. He wasn't striving for this battle, he had no rivalry with Valt. It isn't paying anything off for Bell. It has no weight in character or plot for Bel. It's also not dispute that the ending of manga will be changed. I never suggested it would be in anything I stated.

This is an open forum, anyone can respond to anything posted. It's in fact it's expected, especially here. It happens all the time. Further I didn't argue for g_2. I simply stated my opinion on the subject.

In addition if you felt it was silly you don't need to feel the need to respond.

And after I literally just said the next time we speak I hope we're not arguing and you choose to continue to argue.. 😂. Since one of us has to be the adult here I'm gonna move on with my life, take care Admiral. Oh and BTW, as silly as this back n forth was you replied to me first, not the other way around. Of course I had to respond, but not anymore and if this is just going to keep going hopefully not again.

(May. 19, 2023  5:12 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  5:04 PM)ScarletTurbo44 Wrote: ....💀, This is why I can't stand the fandom sometimes 😂. BondsofTime didn't even mention Valt by name, he was talking about Bell. And yet somehow someone got offended, and now we have this argument. Lmao. It's like kindergarten all over again.

They did mention Valt and specifically the battle he had with Bell. Further I wasn't offended if you're referring to me. I was simply having a discussion.

(May. 19, 2023  5:16 PM)Admiral W Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  5:13 PM)BondsofTime Wrote: And after I literally just said the next time we speak I hope we're not arguing and you choose to continue to argue.. 😂. Since one of us has to be the adult here I'm gonna move on with my life, take care Admiral. Oh and BTW, as silly as this back n forth was you replied to me first, not the other way around. Of course I had to respond, but not anymore and if this is just going to keep going hopefully not again.

I wasn't suggesting you responded to me first. In either event it's neither here nor there. Have a good day.

(May. 19, 2023  5:17 PM)ScarletTurbo44 Wrote:

(May. 19, 2023  5:12 PM)Admiral W Wrote: They did mention Valt and specifically the battle he had with Bell. Further I wasn't offended if you're referring to me. I was simply having a discussion.

I wasn't referring to you specifically. And this was Bond's original reply that spawned this all

"Was that just for the anime? Coulda swore Bell won the last battle in the Manga."

like I said, Valt wasn't mentioned by name.

(May. 20, 2023  3:20 AM)Xcess-Z Wrote: Quickly summarizing my thoughts on each season of the Burst anime:

(My thoughts do differ regarding the manga versions)
S1: A bit slow for my tastes, but overall very solid. It laid a lot of good groundwork, and I loved the final battle's result. My only complaint is that the cast was quite bloated.

God: Takes the groundwork S1 laid and goes crazy with it. The middle is quite slow, and there are missed opportunities, but the peaks God reaches are some of the highest in the franchise.

Chozetsu: My least favorite Burst season, all things considered. It had cool concepts but used them in very shallow ways. I didn't like Aiga as a character, and the other characters I did like (For example Fubuki) were barely used in any meaningful way. I also felt that the ending was quite unearned.

GT: I love this season. It feels like it incorporated a lot of good elements that were previously left behind in S1.   The main cast was super likable and fleshed out, and the overall plot had lots of fun twists and turns. The animation was also kicked up a notch. My only complaint is that Arthur was a bit shallow, Gwyn does make up for him though.

Sparking: This series is quite controversial, and while it had its ups and downs, I think the highs make the lows worth it. Despite having a very large cast they manage to give a good chunk of focus to each Legend. Lain was handled quite poorly at first, but his character got really good starting with Lucifer The End, and I love how they portrayed his relationship with Shu. Not to mention that the animation got even better, and peaked during this season. My only main complaint is the twins. They are fun characters but lack substance.

DB: Watching this series gave me mixed signals, but I do like it. I think that the characters were really good, but the plot was quite bland. Sitting through said plot was quite boring, but I love the ways it pushed characters together and made them clash with each other. Also, shout out to Basara. No one seems to talk about him but he's but favorite secondary rival in all of Burst.

---

Quick opening ranking since I'm listening to one right now:

Spoiler (Click to View)

1. Chozetsu Muteki Blader:
The undisputed Goat. The song is a bop, and the visuals are gorgeous.

2. Clash Dynamite Battle:
Just as good as number one, but Chozetsu Muteki Blader wins because of its length.

3. Gatti 'n' Roll:
Big fan of this opening, it has a fun and unique energy that never gets old.

4. Sparking Revolution:
It took a while for the song to grow on me, but I do like it. Also, the visuals in the later versions are amazing.

5. Evolution Burst:
A bit standard, but the visuals in the later version are top-notch.

6. Burst Finish:
The most boring Opening here compared to the others. It does get a point for actually having a full version though.

(May. 20, 2023  3:20 AM)Xcess-Z Wrote: Quickly summarizing my thoughts on each season of the Burst anime:

(My thoughts do differ regarding the manga versions)
S1: A bit slow for my tastes, but overall very solid. It laid a lot of good groundwork, and I loved the final battle's result. My only complaint is that the cast was quite bloated.

God: Takes the groundwork S1 laid and goes crazy with it. The middle is quite slow, and there are missed opportunities, but the peaks God reaches are some of the highest in the franchise.

Chozetsu: My least favorite Burst season, all things considered. It had cool concepts but used them in very shallow ways. I didn't like Aiga as a character, and the other characters I did like (For example Fubuki) were barely used in any meaningful way. I also felt that the ending was quite unearned.

GT: I love this season. It feels like it incorporated a lot of good elements that were previously left behind in S1.   The main cast was super likable and fleshed out, and the overall plot had lots of fun twists and turns. The animation was also kicked up a notch. My only complaint is that Arthur was a bit shallow, Gwyn does make up for him though.

Sparking: This series is quite controversial, and while it had its ups and downs, I think the highs make the lows worth it. Despite having a very large cast they manage to give a good chunk of focus to each Legend. Lain was handled quite poorly at first, but his character got really good starting with Lucifer The End, and I love how they portrayed his relationship with Shu. Not to mention that the animation got even better, and peaked during this season. My only main complaint is the twins. They are fun characters but lack substance.

DB: Watching this series gave me mixed signals, but I do like it. I think that the characters were really good, but the plot was quite bland. Sitting through said plot was quite boring, but I love the ways it pushed characters together and made them clash with each other. Also, shout out to Basara. No one seems to talk about him but he's but favorite secondary rival in all of Burst.

---

Quick opening ranking since I'm listening to one right now:

Spoiler (Click to View)

1. Chozetsu Muteki Blader:
The undisputed Goat. The song is a bop, and the visuals are gorgeous.

2. Clash Dynamite Battle:
Just as good as number one, but Chozetsu Muteki Blader wins because of its length.

3. Gatti 'n' Roll:
Big fan of this opening, it has a fun and unique energy that never gets old.

4. Sparking Revolution:
It took a while for the song to grow on me, but I do like it. Also, the visuals in the later versions are amazing.

5. Evolution Burst:
A bit standard, but the visuals in the later version are top-notch.

6. Burst Finish:
The most boring Opening here compared to the others. It does get a point for actually having a full version though.

(May. 21, 2023  5:20 AM)Admiral W Wrote: Valt Aoi: Character Arc Breakdown: To Reach Infinity...



Arc Breakdown Part 1: To Reach Infinity, Conquer Doubt.

Obstacles are often likened to mountains for a number of reasons; the problems in front of us seem impossible to scale or extraordinarily difficult to get to the other side of, just as it's hard to pass through a mountain with no opening, or scale over one that dwarfs even skyscrapers. Both obstacles are external, but one of the most challenging obstacles to overcome lies not just without but also within. For Valt, that obstacle was self doubt. It was the conquest of this mountain, among other major hurdles, that led him to become the blader that now sits atop the Blading World.



Valt's character theme is potential, the ability to become all manner of things in the future. In order to reach infinity. The only way forward to fulfill his seemingly limitless potential, was to scale his doubt. 



On his journey to the top of the Blading world, Valt often found himself measured as less than capable by his competition. They underestimated him. Sadly this external output caused an internal struggle, and this is something Valt deals with across his two seasons as the MC in a variety of scenarios.



Time after time he kept running into this obstacle and time after time it really took hold of him and impeded his progress. He faced this from one of his earlier competitors, Wakiya who callously stated his opinion that Valt didn't have what it took to become a great blader. Words that Valt took to heart. It blinded his vision and halted his progress.

"Sad but true not everybody is cut out to be a great blader."



This had a real world effect on his ability to blade. His self doubt, triggered by this external source caused a problem within that shifted things without. 



During the team battle arc he again began to question his ability and worth. This was further compounded by Lui, Japan's No. 1 Blader, when he made clear his belief that Valt was a terrible blader.



We see this in S2 during the shake up at BC Sol and their mounting losses.



You're a terrible blader, you're not cut out for this, you're out of your league. All that constant noise left Valt deaf to what was actually important, his goals, his ambitions, his relationship with Valtreyk and blind to his own value and abilities.



By the time he reached the end of the International Bladers Cup, All the noise has fallen away, and the only thing he hears is Valtreyk. That ringing in his ear that he was out of place had been silenced as he stood before Shu at the finals, one step away from his goal. 



Even as Shu tells him to give in, that it's already decided, Valt stands resolute, no longer a victim of doubt, but standing on real confidence that he acquired over the course of his journey. He wasn't the same boy who crumbled, lost himself when people fanned the flames of doubt in his head or when others watered the seeds of misgivings growing in his mind. 



To think, that this boy, who had been crippled by self doubt would become a legit Legend in the Blading world, the Legend of Legends. He worked hard for milestone, earned every single victory on his way to becoming the strongest blader in the world.



It was only through refocusing his vision on what was actually important, by building real confidence not only in himself, but in his own abilities, by letting the noise fall away, was he able to move forward. Only through conquering doubt could he reach infinity.

(May. 21, 2023  6:41 AM)Phantom legend Wrote:

(May. 21, 2023  5:20 AM)Admiral W Wrote: Valt Aoi: Character Arc Breakdown: To Reach Infinity...



Arc Breakdown Part 1: To Reach Infinity, Conquer Doubt.

Obstacles are often likened to mountains for a number of reasons; the problems in front of us seem impossible to scale or extraordinarily difficult to get to the other side of, just as it's hard to pass through a mountain with no opening, or scale over one that dwarfs even skyscrapers. Both obstacles are external, but one of the most challenging obstacles to overcome lies not just without but also within. For Valt, that obstacle was self doubt. It was the conquest of this mountain, among other major hurdles, that led him to become the blader that now sits atop the Blading World.



Valt's character theme is potential, the ability to become all manner of things in the future. In order to reach infinity. The only way forward to fulfill his seemingly limitless potential, was to scale his doubt. 



On his journey to the top of the Blading world, Valt often found himself measured as less than capable by his competition. They underestimated him. Sadly this external output caused an internal struggle, and this is something Valt deals with across his two seasons as the MC in a variety of scenarios.



Time after time he kept running into this obstacle and time after time it really took hold of him and impeded his progress. He faced this from one of his earlier competitors, Wakiya who callously stated his opinion that Valt didn't have what it took to become a great blader. Words that Valt took to heart. It blinded his vision and halted his progress.

"Sad but true not everybody is cut out to be a great blader."



This had a real world effect on his ability to blade. His self doubt, triggered by this external source caused a problem within that shifted things without. 



During the team battle arc he again began to question his ability and worth. This was further compounded by Lui, Japan's No. 1 Blader, when he made clear his belief that Valt was a terrible blader.



We see this in S2 during the shake up at BC Sol and their mounting losses.



You're a terrible blader, you're not cut out for this, you're out of your league. All that constant noise left Valt deaf to what was actually important, his goals, his ambitions, his relationship with Valtreyk and blind to his own value and abilities.



By the time he reached the end of the International Bladers Cup, All the noise has fallen away, and the only thing he hears is Valtreyk. That ringing in his ear that he was out of place had been silenced as he stood before Shu at the finals, one step away from his goal. 



Even as Shu tells him to give in, that it's already decided, Valt stands resolute, no longer a victim of doubt, but standing on real confidence that he acquired over the course of his journey. He wasn't the same boy who crumbled, lost himself when people fanned the flames of doubt in his head or when others watered the seeds of misgivings growing in his mind. 



To think, that this boy, who had been crippled by self doubt would become a legit Legend in the Blading world, the Legend of Legends. He worked hard for milestone, earned every single victory on his way to becoming the strongest blader in the world.



It was only through refocusing his vision on what was actually important, by building real confidence not only in himself, but in his own abilities, by letting the noise fall away, was he able to move forward. Only through conquering doubt could he reach infinity.

Another great character breakdown and its on Valt even better. Also part one? Man is cooking right now.

(May. 20, 2023  4:52 PM)Ice-Leopard Wrote: I'd love seeing a battle between Ryuga and Lui...or Ginga and Valt. Too bad that will never happen.

(May. 19, 2023  7:45 PM)GodzillaFan101 Wrote: Doing a collison of metal and burst would be fire

(May. 21, 2023  11:58 AM)Ice-Leopard Wrote: I know some people aren't a fan.of it, but I would love a Beyblade Crossover movie, where all generations met to fight together against a new threat,  just like that one ygo movie.