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+--- Thread: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? (/Thread-The-ongoing-debate-Defensive-tracks-is-C145-still-top-tier)
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Jellyboy - Nov. 07, 2010
What you're saying makes no sense.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Pimpju - Nov. 08, 2010
No, you're too ignorant to understand what he's implying.
Being used by a main character means nothing.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Dan - Nov. 08, 2010
How did we get to talking about Storm?
Has there been a resolution yet? ILL, perhaps you should just stick to reading for now, until you gain enough substance to know what your saying.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Dec. 01, 2010
I felt like bumping this.
C145 isn't top tier quality imo.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - 桃太郎 - Dec. 01, 2010
With the lack of top-tier Low Attackers, I'll have to agree with the Mc on this one. Smash Attackers on 85RF still make contact with the opposing Wheel and not the Track.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - OkiBlaze - Dec. 03, 2010
...Sadly, I'd have to agree. C145's ability is definitely top tier; but how often does it come into play exactly? Even with beys that use 90, it seems to me that more contact is made with the metal than the plastic. As both Momo and Kei pointed out, upper attack and low attackers aren't a huge factor in the metagame, which makes C145 worth very little in a defense bey. 85 and 90 are also quite rare, which allow more higher smash attackers to come into play.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - 桃太郎 - Dec. 03, 2010
The purpose of the Defense Type is to be as heavy as possible, utilizing a Wheel with minimal to no recoil, a heavy Track, and a Bottom that has a lot of surface contact with the Stadium floor, or a Bottom that prevents the Bey from moving after being struck (oh yeah, a Metal Face helps too).
It's unfortunate to say, but I believe MF/MF-H Earth Bull GB145WB/RS/RSF is the only viable Defense combo at the moment, and therefore, C145 should be removed from the list.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - OkiBlaze - Dec. 03, 2010
(Dec. 03, 2010 9:29 AM)桃太郎 Wrote: The purpose of the Defense Type is to be as heavy as possible, utilizing a Wheel with minimal to no recoil, a heavy Track, and a Bottom that has a lot of surface contact with the Stadium floor, or a Bottom that prevents the Bey from moving after being struck (oh yeah, a Metal Face helps too).
It's unfortunate to say, but I believe MF/MF-H Earth Bull GB145WB/RS/RSF is the only viable Defense combo at the moment, and therefore, C145 should be removed from the list.
I would agree with this, but C145 does an excellent job of absorbing shock from low blows, which also benefits a defense type; hitting free-spinning plastic is absorbs much more impact than hitting fixed plastic (or rubber, for that matter). However, C145 doesn't do that great of a job with keeping a bey in the stadium, nor does it come into play as much as people would like it to be. Its weight is nothing compared to GB145 and R145, which would make it easier to knock around, and is also why I think it's in danger of coming off of the Top-Tier list.
Side Note:
Also, I'd like more veterans to participate in these threads that are here...it somewhat seems they've been neglected after it's new placement on the forums.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - 桃太郎 - Dec. 03, 2010
C145 also does suffer from floor scrapes, leading to sharp losses in stamina. I've experienced this with C145 more so than GB145; I do not have an R145 Track to say anything about it, but as I've stated above, I reiterate that the Defense Type must be as heavy as possible, equipped with a Bottom that allows for very little movement when struck.
Oki, you're correct when you say it absorbs shock very well, because it really does, but with the lack of effective low-Beys that can be harmful to it, I think it should be removed.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Daegor42 - Dec. 03, 2010
A top-tier track with no top-tier application. Until and unless a combination that actually strikes the track is discovered, C145 will remain an amazing part in theory but not in actual play.
I vote for its removal from the top tier list.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - OkiBlaze - Dec. 03, 2010
(Dec. 03, 2010 10:08 PM)Daegor42 Wrote: A top-tier track with no top-tier application.
Excellently put. Agreed.
In the meanwhile, if attack beys seem to have more contact with the MW more than the track, should we add R145 as well?
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Dec. 04, 2010
I'm not so sure about R145 either.
I really hate combining the four wings of earth with the three heavy rubber protrusions of R145.
So awkward.
I think the top-tier list should be only the best of the best, and I really am not completely certain of R145's preformance. I'll scrounge for results later.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - RエスコルピオT125JB - Dec. 04, 2010
(Dec. 03, 2010 10:08 PM)Daegor42 Wrote: A top-tier track with no top-tier application. Until and unless a combination that actually strikes the track is discovered, C145 will remain an amazing part in theory but not in actual play.
I vote for its removal from the top tier list.
Win [Image: victorym.gif]
(Dec. 03, 2010 11:12 PM)OkiBlaze Wrote: In the meanwhile, if attack beys seem to have more contact with the MW more than the track, should we add R145 as well?This, I have come across that low attacks hit the rubber of R145 and the huge recoil KO itself many times, R145 is on the edge. While it scrapes the stadium floor, it decreases stamina severely.
We need to do more testings for R145.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - OkiBlaze - Dec. 04, 2010
(Dec. 04, 2010 12:05 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: I'm not so sure about R145 either.
I really hate combining the four wings of earth with the three heavy rubber protrusions of R145.
So awkward.
I think the top-tier list should be only the best of the best, and I really am not completely certain of R145's preformance. I'll scrounge for results later.
R145 is what you just said; the best of the best, weight-wise. Its stamina problems seem quite similar to C145, because of how wide it is.
I should stop here, for this isn't on topic anyways.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Fyuuor - Dec. 04, 2010
I didn't wanna express my two cents until I had actually performed some testing on the subject to back up what I'll say.
GB145 Test Results: (Click to View)
C145 Test Results: (Click to View)
R145 Test Results: (Click to View)
As the results show C145 performed the worse with R145 surprisingly having a better average win rate but only slightly over GB145. During my testing C145's claws didn't scrape the stadium floor with C145's claws proving useful and seeming to negate the smash attack of Gravity and Ray on quite a few occasions, though when compared to R145 and GB145 the defensive prowess of C145 seems to be somewhat lacking which is most probably due to the weight difference of C145 in comparison to the other two tracks.
Since we now have some appropriate testing on comparing the win rates of the three main defensive tracks that are currently available I think we may be able to finally reach a verdict of whether or not C145 should remain top tier.
I vote that C145 be removed from the Competitive Combo's List and be replaced with R145 as C145's win rates aren't high enough in comparison to GB145 and R145 as the Competitive Combo List should only include the very best parts and combos which are currently available. C145 is still a decent part, it's just been outclassed by R145 much like Quetzalcoatl was outclassed by Vulcan recently.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - 桃太郎 - Dec. 04, 2010
I shall perform tests and post them here when the time allows me to, but I think with your tests, and the opinions of the veterans here, we can safely say that C145 is no longer top-tier material.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Fyuuor - Dec. 04, 2010
I agree. Though what I'm more surprised about is the fact that R145 outperformed GB145. It'll be interesting to see whether that anomaly corresponds with your testing.
*EDIT*
I propose that C145 be replaced with R145 on the top tier lists.
RE: The ongoing debate: Defensive tracks -- is C145 still top tier? - Mc Frown - Dec. 04, 2010
One of us really needs to get a Hasbro GB145.