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+---- Thread: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF (/Thread-MSF-H-Dragooon%C3%82%C2%B2-Bahamdia-Dragooon-SP230GF)
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MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Ga' - Jan. 03, 2013
Hey, finally back with a new combo! However, all credit goes to Kain_Highwind for coming up with this genius combo before I even got a Bahamdia and tried it out.
The MSF-H adds much-needed weight to the combo, while Dragooon provides the left spin needed to make this combo successful.
The bottom Chrome Wheel of either Dragooon (Kain's original combo) or Bahamdia (my addition, since I only had 1 Dragooon and this was equally effective) provides extraordinary amounts of smash. While Dragooon does offer nice contact points in the bottom of left-spin, the width of Bahamdia does help to make a lot more contact with the opposing wheel, which is very useful when combined with the provided smash.
SP230 acts as a defense against other beyblades and helps to simultaneously push out opposing beyblades while decreasing the recoil from GF. It might be hard to visualize for some, but think of MF-H Lightning L-Drago BD145LRF for those who remember it.
GF is a vital piece to this combo. GF provides extraordinary speed and stamina. The massive (or giga haha) size of GF allows for an incredible movement-to-spin ratio, meaning that even at very low rotations GF swings this combo around the TR like nobody's business. GF provides attack power, outspinning power, Kanye's POWER, whatever you need this bottom provides. At 70% launch power GF is at risk of self-KOing when not launched at a good angle, to get a mental image for those who don't have GF and just how fast this thing goes.
This combo can be launched at full power with a straight shot, even if you have difficulty controlling GF, against attack types because they will clash so fast that GF is kept in the stadium by the opponent. For any Tornado Stalling or Banking, 70% or so should be acceptable for the launch if one cannot control the blade using GF.
So this works magnificently, despite claims of issues with synergy between SP230 and GF. But I think I'll let the tests Kain and I did speak for themselves.
Ga's testing (MSF Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF)
Equipment:
BB-10 Attack Stadium, Clear from BB-32 reinforced with BB-107 Black Attack Stadium
3Seg Launcher Grip and Beylauncher LR
Launcher Grip Rubber, Grip Rubber, Launcher Extension and Metal Assist
Banking/Straight Shoot used and indicated with each test
All rubber parts in prime condition unless new (will be stated)
Vs. Attack (Click to View)
Vs. Defense (Click to View)
Vs. Stamina (Click to View)
Kain's Testing (MSF-H Dragooon² SP230GF and MSF Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF)
It's a bit difficult for Kain to get tests up due to other reasons, but he has managed to send me a few of his tests to put up in here.
Equipment:
BB-10 Attack Stadium, Clear
Beylauncher with Launcher Rubber and Beylauncher L with Launcher Rubber, BB-23
All rubber parts in prime condition unless new (will be stated)
Vs. Defense (Click to View)
Vs. Stamina (Click to View)
Kain has had less practice than me with the Bahamdia variant. However, he was still able to achieve very usable results against Duo 230D. Bahamdia Dragooon can spin equalize to OS Duo if it makes a decent amount of contact at the beginning and then goes into a tornado stall for most of the match usually. All of the KOs were coming from an almost deep bank, which is explained next.
When banking the combo, there is a sweet spot with the amount of tilt you use to bank. If you can consistently get the right amount of tilt with your bank then you are almost guaranteed to make contact without self KOing. This just simply requires practice and is useful for other flat tips like XF. All of the KOs in Kain's Duo 230D and my Duo Stamina tests came from practicing this bank. After a few tries, Kain was getting 11/20 KOs for Bahamdia Dragooon, and after a day or two of practice (about 3-4 hours of practicing and testing overall) I was achieving near-perfect KO records. This combo requires a decent amount of practice, but the payoff is huge.
For now, enjoy the combo! It's a load of fun to use and a great way to master GF for competitive use as well. 100% power isn't always necessary to win with GF anyway.
Any other tests are appreciated, especially with the Dragooon variant. I'd also like to see some confirmation of tests or possible contradictory results so that I may review over anything I might have done wrong or conduct more tests when I get the time in order to validate my results.
Note: This was also the combo Kain and I were talking about in the BB-10 GF discussion thread, in case anyone was wondering...
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Tri - Jan. 03, 2013
Seems like a nice combo. I'm very interested to see the vs. Defence tests soon.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Ga' - Jan. 03, 2013
Not too worried about vs. Defense, considering that you could launch GF and probably still have it always doing full laps around the stadium when RDF/RB/CS falls over, Duo or Synchrom...
Those tests will be coming tomorrow or the day after though, yes.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - ShinobuXD - Jan. 03, 2013
So is this almost like an upgrade to the combo Meow! has been using? Could someone with two Dragooons test against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD please?
I will have to test this tomorrow. I'll try to post results.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - KainHighwind - Jan. 03, 2013
Thank you so much for starting this Ga! And vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD should be a cake walk for this because they will both be same spin which pretty much makes it attack vs stamina. My EWD is missing in action but I could substitute with W2D
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Mr. N - Jan. 03, 2013
Imagine 2 GFs in a battle... Speaking of which, can someone with all the parts test this VS MFS-H ______ Dragooon ______ GF? I have no idea what Track and other Chrome Wheel would be best, but probably one with low recoil. (IIRC, Revizer?) Sorry, I have no Zero-G Beys and am not very knowlegeable about them. Anyways, it would be interesting since the two Beys would circle the Ridge and if one has less recoil it could give an edge over the other, and it should be Left-spin to avoid the direct impact of 2 GFs spinning in opposite directions. (ouch) Just an idea, and I would be glad if someone wants to test it.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - ShinobuXD - Jan. 03, 2013
My bad. I forgot this combo also KOs. In that case, could you please test against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon BD145 RDF?
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Ga' - Jan. 03, 2013
This combo also outspins, haha.
No Defense results up yet, admittedly, but in Kain's informal testing it was able to shove Saramanda Revizer right out of the stadium (Dragooon variant at least) and should easily be able to lap this combo.
Of course, I'll let the tests do the talking when they pop up.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Meow! - Jan. 03, 2013
I think I've hinted that I'm not a huge fan of anything 230GF in my GF testing thread, but I'm really excited about this.
One thing I noticed informally testing SP230GF on left spin Dragooon setups when I first got it that made me shrug of 230GF setup was a matchup against Duo Aquario B
. Maybe I just need to give it more time and effort but in the initial results, it would just fall over....Guess I'ma have to do some revisiting. During the last seconds of the battle does it fall over or does it stand up straight like S130/D125GF? I noticed the GF has the most LAD when it stands up straight.
Also one more question about how hard are you launching when you KO'd Duo 230D?
Thanks I'll be sure to post some tests soon.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - zeneo - Jan. 03, 2013
A really smart combo indeed!!
defense,stamina,attack,all included.
so this should be a balance type bey right?
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Uwik - Jan. 03, 2013
(Jan. 03, 2013 5:19 AM)ShinobuXD Wrote: So is this almost like an upgrade to the combo Meow! has been using? Could someone with two Dragooons test against MSF-H Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD please?
I will have to test this tomorrow. I'll try to post results.
(Jan. 03, 2013 5:26 AM)Kain_Highwind Wrote: Thank you so much for starting this Ga! And vs. Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD should be a cake walk for this because they will both be same spin which pretty much makes it attack vs stamina. My EWD is missing in action but I could substitute with W2D
The more sensible counter would be MSF-M Dragooon Killerken SA165 EWD. (Killerken on top). It could be an interesting match up.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Yami - Jan. 03, 2013
Totally shatted duo...great tests Ga!
Now let me rob Arupeao shop for GF
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Sniper - Jan. 03, 2013
Can you do comparison test with SP230 and E230?
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - KainHighwind - Jan. 03, 2013
(Jan. 03, 2013 6:07 AM)Meow! Wrote: I think I've hinted that I'm not a huge fan of anything 230GF in my GF testing thread, but I'm really excited about this.
One thing I noticed informally testing SP230GF on left spin Dragooon setups when I first got it that made me shrug of 230GF setup was a matchup against Duo Aquario B:D. Maybe I just need to give it more time and effort but in the initial results, it would just fall over....
Guess I'ma have to do some revisiting. During the last seconds of the battle does it fall over or does it stand up straight like S130/D125GF? I noticed the GF has the most LAD when it stands up straight.
Also one more question about how hard are you launching when you KO'd Duo 230D?
Thanks I'll be sure to post some tests soon.
What first made me try this is that I wanted to see if it was possible for Dragooon to end a battle standing straight up on a high track with GF. I went with Dragooon Dragooon first for balance, and if it could end up in a spin equalizing war with Duo 230D it could OS Duo. It would sometimes still be standing, and sometimes it would fall over, but it would fall after Duo. However, the one issue I realized really quick is that it is harder than I thought to get Dragooon x2 SP230GF into a spin equalizing battle with Duo 230D if it didn't KO, because Dragooon would destabilize Duo, and then Duo would be circling Dragooon in a tilt and not make enough contact towards the end of the battle when GF had run out of enough stamina that it was sitting in the middle. Because of that, I have actually started liking the Bahamdia version a little better. It doesn't have a very good chance of spin equalizing to a win, but because Bahamdia is so wide it is almost guaranteed to make contact. And with a bey that big going that fast, it isn't hard to KO most things. As for the match you mentioned vs Duo B:D, I doubt this could OS it, but I know it could KO it.
All in all, with what we have currently figured out, if you want to have a chance to spin equalize Dragooon x2 is the better choice, but if you just want a KOing monster go with Bahamdia Dragooon. However, in my tests Bahamdia Dragooon was able to OS Duo twice because it made a lot of early contact to destabilize Duo enough to where it was bad off balance by the time the battle made it to a spin equalizing war. So it does have a small chance of winning that way.
As far as the KO launch goes, this is where Ga'Hooleone really deserves the credit. You can launch much harder than normal (with the Bahamdia version) because you are pretty much guaranteed to make contact, and as long as you make contact, there is very little chance of self KOing. You also need to bank a little deeper than normal (not too deep though), so that there is less of a chance of self KOing before you have a chance to make contact. Basically, Ga got the launch right 20 times in his tests against Duo, and I got the launch right 11 times. lol. He has had a good bit more practice with this combo, and I applaud him for figuring out how to make this idea shine!
Sniperâ„¢ Wrote:Can you do comparison test with SP230 and E230?
It is funny you thought of that, because when I first saw that Dragooon x2 SP230GF had the ability to OS Duo 230D, I immeditately tried E230, and it could almost do it too. SP230 just seems to perform a lot better for this. I however, have not tried Bahamdia Dragooon E230GF, so I might give that a shot and see what happens.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - ShinobuXD - Jan. 03, 2013
I figured I would test against defense, since that is the only thing that hasn't been tested against, except instead of using Duo, I would use Death to try to stop it from winning bu spin equalization.
MSF-H Bahamdia Dragooon SP230 GF(Tornado Stall) vs MF-H Death Aquario BD145 CS(Semi-Agressive)
Dragooon:8 Wins(All OS)
Death:12 Wins(All OS)
6 Ties
Notes: There are a lot of things that probably influenced this outcome. First of all, I still have not fully mastered GF, so I could only launch about 75%, which made Dragooon have to tornado stall and spin equalize to win. Second of all, my CS is semi-aggressive, which disrupted Dragooon's tornado stall a lot of times. Third of all, it was against Death, which defeats almost all spin equalizers. I think the results would have been much different if it was against Duo or being used by someone better with GF. This combo has a lot of potential, and lets Bahamdia benefit from its sheer size. Excellent idea Kain.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Niteblade - Jan. 03, 2013
Well, this combo seems promising. I personally don't think any more test are needed, but I'd like to see more tests anyways just to make sure. Could you make a different test against attack? Maybe against Variares to see if it can take a left spin attack maybe?
EDIT: also, could you compare SP230 with SA165? I don't think it would do better, I'm just curious
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - ShinobuXD - Jan. 04, 2013
This combo definitley needs more testing to go on the tier list Infinity. I almost forgot I did this test, but here it is.
MSF-H Bahamdia Dragooon SP230 GF vs Duo Aquario 230 D
Dragooon:13 Wins(12 KO,1 OS)
Duo:12 Wins(11 OS,1 KO)
Bahamdia Dragooon Win Rate:52%
I think I might of found Bahamdia Dragooon's sweet spot for launching, I just need to work on getting it to a 100% launch power. I know this could definitley be 80 or 90 percent, even 100 like Ga'Hooleone got, with a little more practice. I'm definitley gonna practice more with this combo tonight.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - UltimateFantasy - Jan. 04, 2013
I've finally been waiting for a combo that uses Bahamdia for Smash attack. I know many people have said this, but this may be the perfect counter for Revizer Dragooon SA165 EWD.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Meow! - Jan. 04, 2013
Perfect counter? You act like Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD couldn't get whooped by literally every attacker in the game....
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - th!nk - Jan. 04, 2013
(Jan. 04, 2013 1:45 AM)Meow! Wrote: Perfect counter? You act like Reviser Dragooon SA165EWD couldn't get whooped by literally every attacker in the game....
Marry Me.
Anyway, this combo looks pretty neat - those vs attack results in particular remind me heavily of MF-H Basalt Kerbecs TH170/230 WF
I would suggest the reason for CF doing better may be its speed, perhaps.
I would, however, like to see some results against Mid height stamina customs, and perhaps low height ones, as I suspect this may struggle to KO them without Metal-on-Metal contact (though banking hard was a partial solution with the previous momentum-based combos).
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - KainHighwind - Jan. 05, 2013
Since we don't have any tests up for Dragooon Dragooon yet, or vs defense, I went ahead and did this...
MSF-H-Dragooon Dragooon SP230GF vs. MSF-Reviser Reviser BD145RDF
Reviser always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Reviser: 3 (3 OS, 0 KO)
Dragooon Win %: 85.0%
Ties were because I launched too light and Dragooon didn't tornado stall long enough so it made contact with Reviser right before Reviser fell over. And Reviser's wins were due to me launching too hard to where Dragooon didn't tornado stall cause it couldn't hold on to the TR. You have to back off your[/align] launch strength a little vs heavy defense combos, because they help keep the stadium still, and if the stadium can't move when GF is trying to stall then it will roll over the TR and start slamming into walls.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Ga' - Jan. 06, 2013
Adding it to the OP, nice tests.
Yeah, this combo seems incredibly versatile overall. From what I've seen so far it's able to handle all sorts of combos once you can bank properly and master GF...
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - ShinobuXD - Jan. 06, 2013
Ga'Hooleone and Kain_Highwind, could one of you please test against the same Death combo I used in one of my posts in this topic? I want to see if that combo can be OS'd consistently with a 100% launch, rotating launches, and if not, I would like to see if it can be KO'd.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - Ga' - Jan. 06, 2013
I'll do those tests tomorrow when I'm done studying for my tests this week.
RE: MSF-H Dragooon²/Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF - KainHighwind - Jan. 06, 2013
ShinobuXD, I did a quick 20 rounds for you. I would still like to see what Ga comes up with vs this same combo since he has had more practice.
MSF-H-Bahamdia Dragooon SP230GF vs. MF-Death Aquario BD145CS
Death always launched first.
Detail Results (Click to View)
Death: 7 (7 OS, 0 KO)
BD Win %: 65.0%
I played around with several different launches throughout these tests, but if I would have stuck with the one that worked it would have had better results. Death's OS were when BD would tornado stall and then ease down to the center to try and spin equalize to win, but it just didn't have enough spin by the time it got there. What really surprised me is that BD can actually OS this Death combo if it makes a good bit of contact so that they end up spin equalizing in the middle when BD still has a good bit of spin left. The launch that seemed to work best is a very deep bank (but not to where BD is scraping right off the bat), at full power, and I would say that goes for vs any defense combo on CS. This also gives BD the best chance to KO because when you launch like that, it will sit in the middle tilted and get 2-3 good metal to metal hits in. With that said, it is hard for this combo to KO low opponents like th!nk said.