(Jun. 06, 2012  6:50 AM)Eternal Blader Wrote: I found a flaw with this combo: You put Phantom in attack mode, which has lots of recoil. Using the sliding shoot against stamina beys is a good choice, but if the stamina bey withstands the attack recoil may take effect and the bey may self KO due to recoil.

(Jun. 06, 2012  4:01 PM)Ingulit Wrote: To reply to the high-risk, low-reward comment, I very much understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree. While this combo is certainly high-risk due to how important launching it correctly is, it is high-reward because a proper launch means that it will OS any rubber-based bottom (like a normal Stamina type) and that it will KO any opposing Stamina type (which is a much more consistent way to beat Stamina types than praying your Stamina or Defense custom spins for longer). As I said in the OP, this makes this custom a relatively safe (but hard to use) pick in a tournament setting because it can handle almost any opponent that isn't an Attack type.

I did try this custom with AD145, CH120, and the like, but when I put it up against a LTSC utilizing Duo I couldn't KO it consistently like I can with 90. I also tried this custom with a wide variety of Metal Faces, but in the end having no Metal Face provided the best results because the custom tornado stalls longer and generally has more Stamina without one.

(Jun. 06, 2012  9:52 PM)Ingulit Wrote: This custom has significantly better balance and stamina than LDD BD145MF can possibly dream of. Where LDD has to rely on its incredibly mediocre spin steal capabilities to out spin Defense types, this custom plays the role of a traditional Stamina type and wins without guesswork. Once LDD has been knocked off balance (a very easy thing to do) and BD145 starts scraping, no amount of spin steal can help it. LDD's poor weight distribution also creates issues with BD145 scraping while tornado stalling, further causing it to rely on the fact that it spins in the opposite direction to have a shot at winning. The only thing the custom you listed has going for it is its weight, but it still doesn't have a great time with Attack types either.

Most importantly, if you are using LDD to tornado stall out a defense type, once LDD reaches the center it will speed the opponent back up to its level because of spin equalization, thus removing the advantage tornado stalling offered it. This custom, when it reaches the center, destabilizes the opponent and still has a ton of stamina left over.

While MF LDD BD145MF fulfills a similar role, yes, I would pick this custom over LDD in a Stalling Clause for the reasons I just listed.

(Jun. 06, 2012  10:44 PM)Kei Wrote: I personally just feel it's too easy to counter unless you're using a pure Stamina type. Perhaps this problem could be rectified by using BD145. Did you ever consider trying it? Or does the eventual scraping hinder its ability to OS Defense types?

(Jun. 06, 2012  10:56 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I don't personally try to attempt Gattyaki often, but you are right in saying this custom would not perform it as well as heavier customs; however, I'm still of the opinion that Gattyaki, performed at all, is still devastating as long as your bey has a wheel over 40 grams.

(Jun. 06, 2012  10:56 PM)Ingulit Wrote: I did try BD145, and the reason I didn't use it was not actually because of the scraping (Phantom's balance and natural stamina made this a non-problem, though 90 does have much better stamina); rather, it was because of the fact that I simply couldn't KO low-track Stamina types the way I can with 90. If Phantom isn't low enough, its attack mode means nothing, and that's half of the purpose of this combo. Furthermore, 90 on Phantom puts its contact points in great places against popular Stamina and Defense types. BD145 isn't bad, and the added weight certainly helps, but I've found 90 to be more effective against a wider range of opponents, and it's this versatility that makes this combo what it is.

(Jun. 06, 2012  10:56 PM)Ingulit Wrote: EDIT: I just tried it some more with BD145, but MF-H Duo Cancer 230MB, a very popular threat that this combo can beat on 90, beat the combo with BD145 up, stole his lunch money, and then insulted his mother. The stamina and height that 90 offers is far more important than the extra weight.

(Jun. 08, 2012  2:53 AM)facade Wrote: hmm i cant help wondering about defence combo's resorting to pieces such as rf or otherwise have aggresive movements ik you explained this earlyer, but i'm not compleatly convinced could i see some tests

(Jun. 12, 2012  5:57 AM)ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Wrote: I'm not sure how big of a threat Basalt is in tournaments nowadays, but regardless of the Track and Bottom of whatever the Basalt Stamina or Defense variant is, tornado-stalling this combo will always land the win. It just beats all Basalt Stamina or Defense setups.