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+--- Thread: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables (/Thread-Tier-Vs-Skill-The-Constantly-Confusing-Variables)
Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
For a while now, I have been looking at the current "Top-Tier" combos or parts and I am disappointed. My disappointment comes from the results they get when they face unorthodox or commonly dismissed combos. From my observations, a more skilled blader with an unusual combo is more than likely going to defeat a blader who uses a top-tier combo, knows the combo inside and out, and uses it effectively. Prime example: Thermal Serpent SW145SD vs Earth 100WD and Thermal winning 3-0
Now Thermal is supposed to no longer be top-tier correct? If this is so, why has this happened? I know both bladers personally and witnessed them both play other players with their combos in other matches and I can validate their skill. However, the person with Thermal has a much more strategic mindset and is a little more skilled by a small margin but has a launch that makes his beyblade go into an automatic sliding shoot motion. The other player goes by the book, does all that he is supposed to do with the combo, and loses everytime. Keep in mind that they both have relatively similar launch powers from the looks of it. If anything, the person with Earth has a more powerful launch. Not only was Earth destabilized, it was forced into the stadium floor and forced into submission. Isn't 100 supposed to be superior to 145? Isn't 100 supposed to destabilize 145?
Lately, at tournaments and even during my own personal training with teammates, I have noticed this trend. They may use top-tiers against my combos and I would take them out with something not top tier rather easily and vice-versa. In conclusion, I think that skill beats tier. A skilled blader can beat a blader who plays well with a tier based combo. Technique and skill is much more important than going by what other people use. The metagame is too unstable in different areas at this point. Italy makes Leone(one of my personal favorites) look like Vulcan or Lightning. In the UK, stamina looks like the definite way to go. In NY/NJ, top-tiers are almost non-existant considering they die so easily to odd combos like MF Rock Bull M145ES killing Lighting 90RF 3-0 . 230 looks like trash over here unless selective people use it but even then, there is no guarantee like MF-H Earth Aquario 85WD defeating MF-H Hell Kerbecs 230CS(Mint) consistent with either Gattayaki or destabilization from hitting the 230 track during the launch, leaving it off balance.
Give it a thought and reply.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Shabalabadoo - Mar. 02, 2011
I really like this thread
I'm in complete agreement. 100%.
But, some thoughts I have.
Obviously skill is a deciding factor, but there is a point where a combo is too far to be helped. Poison Escolpio gb145 r2f, try winning with that. Good try. But that's also part of being skilled, making combos that can do good, will surprise others, and have a strategy.
The top tier is basically the best of that specific type.
If you want a pure stamina or attack or defense, then the ones on the top tier list are those. The combos such as the Mf rock bull m145 es that was used, does it necessarily have a specific type? Is it a pure stamina, attack, or defense...no. But that doesn't mean it can't whoop butt against top tiers.
It's kinda like what the Italians have- Anti meta.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Mc Frown - Mar. 02, 2011
As long as you aren't absolutely terrible skill is pretty much a non-issue. If you can pull with any amount of force on the beylauncher you have defense and stamina mastered already. What matters is type match up. Of course garbage tier stamina will beat rubber tipped top tier defense, but neither of the options in your poll are that big of a deal.
/itssortofobviouswhatthisisabout/
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - BillyBlast - Mar. 02, 2011
i guess there are different aspects like the top tier theroretically should win but in expermental test in this they dont if the skill and tier wereto combine but sometimes if you just lob=ve a beyblade you shoot even harder than a top tier it gets way more complicated than this so i like thjis thread but when a science guy satrs ppoating i will stop reaeding
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - leonebest - Mar. 02, 2011
true, skill is better because i have a fury leone d125f that beats mf earth bull 8/10 times and mf lightning ldrago 9/10 times
i feel as if your stalking me hellhound .
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Otsu - Mar. 02, 2011
the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
my friend and I are pretty equal when it comes to strength and launching mechanics. so it just comes down to which combination beyblade is better. we're always going for that gattayaki though. haha.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:03 AM)Otsu Wrote: the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
I understand your point BUT the person has a lot to do with it. Launch technique is very important. The technique is put into effect by the blader themselves. If they had nothing to do with it, launch techniques would not be relevant.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
So, mc frown, when is the last time you battled anyone other than yourself?
care to share your launch techniques? Maybe your tournament strategies? I mean, you're a veteran, surely you know how to beat a blader using tier 2/3 parts an average blader like bluezee and I can. you probably have my version of gatteyaki down pat by now, right? (Mar. 02, 2011 4:54 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: As long as you aren't absolutely terrible skill is pretty much a non-issue. If you can pull with any amount of force on the beylauncher you have defense and stamina mastered already. What matters is type match up. Of course garbage tier stamina will beat rubber tipped top tier defense, but neither of the options in your poll are that big of a deal.
/itssortofobviouswhatthisisabout/
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:09 AM)Deikailo Wrote: So, mc frown, when is the last time you battled anyone other than yourself?(Mar. 02, 2011 4:54 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: As long as you aren't absolutely terrible skill is pretty much a non-issue. If you can pull with any amount of force on the beylauncher you have defense and stamina mastered already. What matters is type match up. Of course garbage tier stamina will beat rubber tipped top tier defense, but neither of the options in your poll are that big of a deal.
/itssortofobviouswhatthisisabout/
Have I ever told you that your mind reading skills are amazing?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
I got to the semi finals of the east coast championships (14th round) by shooting beyblades out of the stadium before they hit the ground. Brad, bluezee, and guardian odin as my witness, I can still do this with plastic generation beys. I'm working on adapting it for a beylauncher.
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:03 AM)Otsu Wrote: the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
my friend and I are pretty equal when it comes to strength and launching mechanics. so it just comes down to which combination beyblade is better. we're always going for that gattayaki though. haha.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - BeybladeStation - Mar. 02, 2011
I seriously think that this 100% true. Why do I agree? It's just because Knowledge VS. Stats. Now to add more to this I say that Launch Power plays a great role. And I have some of the bes examples for this:
My Best Friend once decided that he would battle his younger brother to see just how good he was. So this is what happened: (The Best Friend is older than brother)
Dark Wolf DF145FS (Brother) VS. Rock Leone 145WB (Best Friend)
Dark Wolf Wins: 10 Rounds
Rock Leone Wins: 0 Rounds
Rock Leone Win Rate: 100%
Now obviously as you may know that Dark Wolf is probably the worst combo ever. Against a Rock Leone just makes matters worse. But see my Friend has been playing for over 6 years while his brother has been playing for about 1 year. Now these results prove skill . But then I twisted it a bit and heres what happened. These results were obvious but now.....:
I decided that my best friend was constantly winning so I got him the Dark Wolf instead, and gave his brother a Leone. The results were quite different:
Dark Wolf (Best Friend) VS. Rock Leone (Brother)
Rock Leone Wins: 7 Rounds
Dark Wolf Wins: 3 Rounds
This meaning that eventhough the brother is weaker, his beyblade is better and is able to get some advantage over his older, stronger, more experienced brother. So this Proves:
1. Launch Power can change everything.
2. Less Skilled Bladers using Strong Combos can overcome skilled Bladers using Weak Combos.
3. More Skilled Bladers can make even some of the worst Beyblades look good against Low Skilled.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:12 AM)Bluezee Wrote: Have I ever told you that your mind reading skills are amazing?this is a great solution to stalling clauses, thank you, I'll work on this.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:13 AM)Deikailo Wrote: I got to the semi finals of the east coast championships (14th round) by shooting beyblades out of the stadium before they hit the ground. Brad, bluezee, and guardian odin as my witness, I can still do this with plastic generation beys. I'm working on adapting it for a beylauncher.(Mar. 02, 2011 5:03 AM)Otsu Wrote: the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
my friend and I are pretty equal when it comes to strength and launching mechanics. so it just comes down to which combination beyblade is better. we're always going for that gattayaki though. haha.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
I actually meant to mention you and your technique but I am gald to see you did before hand. Videos of this would be perfect for this thread.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
Why is everyone mentioning power? Power is not skill. The way you shoot it is. Banking, direction, and aim come more into play than power. Anyone can pull a winder/string and each launcher has a max rpm anyway, right?
Video of my shot would do no good since I can't even see it when it happens. I don't think a camera would have enough fps to give an accurate account of it. Besides, it's useless until I can put it to use on abeylauncher
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:24 AM)Deikailo Wrote: Why is everyone mentioning power? Power is not skill. The way you shoot it is. Banking, direction, and aim come more into play than power. Anyone can pull a winder/string and each launcher has a max rpm anyway, right?
Well, logically, yes anyone can do that but with enough force, from the momentum a person creates by shooting forward or at an angle with their body motion, shouldn't this affect the beyblade and give it a boost even if its not very large but significant? Even so, this is about skill so your statement was correct. A skilled beyblader should be able to utilize their beyblade in such a way that if they choose, they can KO or make a critcal hit during the beginning of a match during launches to win regardless of what they use.
Also, I have been able to duplicate something similar to your launch with the beylauncher lately. I have been doing it extremely well and I will be using it in the next tournament. I can post a video up of how to use a launch similar to yours with the beylauncher. I will say that I am able to do it best with Hasbro Beylaunchers.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Mc Frown - Mar. 02, 2011
@Deikialo god honest its not that spectacular and i really dont care
i battle my cousin on a pretty regular basis
and trust me, with my parts selection it's not like all i use are 'de 133t tier onez'. I use XF as a bottom. Leone is my favorite Attack wheel. I use ES and MS all the time.
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:24 AM)Deikailo Wrote: each launcher has a max rpm anyway, rightnot according to your boy bluezee
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:48 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: @Deikialo god honest its not that spectacular and i really dont careWhat's "it"?
i battle my cousin on a pretty regular basis
and trust me, with my parts selection it's not like all i use are 'de 133t tier onez'. I use XF as a bottom. Leone is my favorite Attack wheel. I use ES and MS all the time.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Mc Frown - Mar. 02, 2011
your super semi-final gattyaki shot
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
You're right, it was pretty lame. All of New york's plastic metagame changed its launch technique because they were bored, not because they were trying to avoid mid-air collisions.
who is your cousin?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Musica - Mar. 02, 2011
An interesting conflict for kindof like somebody using an angle compass that being for begginers, when I went up against the bey I had still gotten the same stability and almost zero power loss in the battle so in a way I say skill beats tier just like skill beats beyblade gear
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:57 AM)Mc Frown Wrote: your super semi-final gattyaki shot
I would say it is quite, important, and very useful. In fact, it really changes the way a match can turn out and provides an effective strategy to win.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Pimpju - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 5:13 AM)Deikailo Wrote: I got to the semi finals of the east coast championships (14th round) by shooting beyblades out of the stadium before they hit the ground. Brad, bluezee, and guardian odin as my witness, I can still do this with plastic generation beys. I'm working on adapting it for a beylauncher.the strategies are very simple though. No matter how good your amazing gattyaki is, if I angle my bey such that if you hit it with your gattyaki it will encounter a wall I'm fine, or if I launch closer to the stadium floor, or if I simply launch it in an unexpected direction.(Mar. 02, 2011 5:03 AM)Otsu Wrote: the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
my friend and I are pretty equal when it comes to strength and launching mechanics. so it just comes down to which combination beyblade is better. we're always going for that gattayaki though. haha.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Mc Frown - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 6:02 AM)Deikailo Wrote: You're right, it was pretty lame. All of New york's plastic metagame changed its launch technique because they were bored, not because they were trying to avoid mid-air collisions.launch lower in the stadium with your hand in the way
problem solved
and to be fair new york/new jersey dont even play the same game as the majority of us on this site, all of your combos methods and results are completely different from anywhere else
Quote:who is your cousin?someone who isnt as good as bluezee but hedoesnt suck
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Bluezee - Mar. 02, 2011
(Mar. 02, 2011 6:06 AM)momiji manju Wrote:(Mar. 02, 2011 5:13 AM)Deikailo Wrote: I got to the semi finals of the east coast championships (14th round) by shooting beyblades out of the stadium before they hit the ground. Brad, bluezee, and guardian odin as my witness, I can still do this with plastic generation beys. I'm working on adapting it for a beylauncher.the strategies are very simple though. No matter how good your amazing gattyaki is, if I angle my bey such that if you hit it with your gattyaki it will encounter a wall I'm fine, or if I launch closer to the stadium floor, or if I simply launch it in an unexpected direction.(Mar. 02, 2011 5:03 AM)Otsu Wrote: the problem with this argument in beyblade is that the person has very little actual involvement with the outcome of the battle. the only thing you can call skill is the strength of the launch, and doing a sliding shot. other than that, it all comes down to your equipment. it's not like playing a fighting game where you have complete control of your character.
my friend and I are pretty equal when it comes to strength and launching mechanics. so it just comes down to which combination beyblade is better. we're always going for that gattayaki though. haha.
edit, wow i actually meant to click tier, but clicked skill by mistake.
And do you expect this to work if you do not know if your opponent will continue to use the technique twice, three, or however many times in a row? What if they use something that is already very good but just decide to use the technique for a quicker win? What will you do when they change strategy and just let the combo work its magic? Do you really want to take time to plan all that out during a simple 3,2,1 Go Shoot?
RE: Tier Vs. Skill: The Constantly Confusing Variables - Deikailo - Mar. 02, 2011
if you launch closer to the stadium, then you're still where I want you. I shoot for where your beyblade will be in the following second, not where it already is. It's easier if youre closer to the ground because then there are less possibilities.