I hope I don't need to put this under: "build me a combo".
Here's the "challenge":
Make a combo that can CONSISTENTLY beat Lord Spriggan; Sting; Bearing (L/R).
However here's the "challenging" part, the combo must include the Regalia Genesis Layer (I suppose you can use Big Bang Genesis as well if that's easier).
Needs to be able to beat LS in both spin directions.
Against a right spinning Lord it's actually not that difficult but when Lord's put left, the drain has been a bit of a struggle.
Tested combo's that failed:
Stock Regalia Genesis (hybrid driver) - Total fail, surprising lack of stamina.
Regalia Genesis; Sting; Ultimate reboot'/Xtend+ - occasional stadium out , nothing to write home about.
I haven't received my Big Bang yet so tests there will have to wait.
In fact, since I'm on the topic: I haven't been able to beat this Lord Spriggan combo (consistently) with anything.
Some will be more consistent depending on lS's spin direction but fail completely when the spin is changed.
While that's obviously normal, there has to be something that would at least go 50-50.
So far good ol' Perfect Phoenix has shown the most promise.
I choose Regalia Genesis for this because I like the layer a lot but I need to be able to comfortably replace my Lord Spriggan for it. There are no tournaments here so while I can technically use both, there's no need to do so if 1 is clearly better than the other.
RG Outer/00C/G At can beat LS in same spin.
(Feb. 14, 2020 7:51 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ]RG Outer/00C/G At can beat LS in same spin.
But what about opposite spin tho?
Because that's where the "challenge" or in this case the problem lies.
The combo needs to work consistently against LS no matter it's direction.
Against right spin, several combo's will work fairly well.
It's the other way around that causes the most problems.
Super aggressive combo's seem to work the best for a ring out finish against left but a bigger risk against right LS.
I haven't seen my LS burst once, at best it has lost a single click
(Feb. 14, 2020 7:58 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 7:51 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ]RG Outer/00C/G At can beat LS in same spin.
But what about opposite spin tho?
Because that's where the "challenge" or in this case the problem lies.
The combo needs to work consistently against LS no matter it's direction.
Against right spin, several combo's will work fairly well.
It's the other way around that causes the most problems.
Super aggressive combo's seem to work the best for a ring out finish against left but a bigger risk against right LS.
I haven't seen my LS burst once, at best it has lost a single click
My LS stock hasn't burst, but it can burst on Bearing. I thought you only meant one of the rotations, so that's why I said Atomic. RG Outer Xt+ should be able to OS LS at least 50% of the time.
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:01 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 7:58 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]But what about opposite spin tho?
Because that's where the "challenge" or in this case the problem lies.
The combo needs to work consistently against LS no matter it's direction.
Against right spin, several combo's will work fairly well.
It's the other way around that causes the most problems.
Super aggressive combo's seem to work the best for a ring out finish against left but a bigger risk against right LS.
I haven't seen my LS burst once, at best it has lost a single click
My LS stock hasn't burst, but it can burst on Bearing. I thought you only meant one of the rotations, so that's why I said Atomic. RG Outer Xt+ should be able to OS LS at least 50% of the time.
I wasn't sure how to best word it XD
I can test out RG Outer Xt+ but I doubt the results will be much different to RG; Sting; Xtend+
After heavy attack packed battles, I've seen LS give away a bit but nothing near a burst.
This isn't much of a challenge, this is you asking for a combo that fulfils some very specific requirements on very specific Layers and parts, in both directions. You want a unicorn. No one layer is going to win on both spin directions against Lord with a single set of parts. That's not how anything works. Especially not against Lord, and especially not with rG. The combo that works doesn't exist just because you want it to exist.
It probably can't be done reliably. rG isn't going to KO Lord in either spin reliably, Lord isn't going to burst when properly constructed with a gold sting, or a blitz.
Perfect rG 00cr xt+ will probably get you the closest. Perfect rG 0Wall Bearing might come close too.
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:17 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't much of a challenge, this is you asking for a combo that fulfils some very specific requirements on very specific Layers and parts, in both directions. You want a unicorn. No one layer is going to win on both spin directions against Lord with a single set of parts. That's not how anything works. Especially not against Lord, and especially not with rG. The combo that works doesn't exist just because you want it to exist.
It probably can't be done reliably. rG isn't going to KO Lord in either spin reliably, Lord isn't going to burst when properly constructed with a gold sting, or a blitz.
Perfect rG 00cr xt+ will probably get you the closest.
So unicrest ... interesting.
Jokes aside, isn't that what makes it a challenge tho?
Whether it's possible or not, doesn't necessarily matter.
If I recall correctly, which let's be honest I have a horrible memory, LS can't change it's spin in a match during tournaments. Not sure how it is in between matches tho.
Correct me there if I'm wrong please, we don't have tournaments here so my knowledge of the rules isn't really perfect.
But at that point, it's easily countered. I can bring forth beys that can beat it left and/or right spinning.
However, not only do those rules not apply in free battle/matches, any bey that works against it in left or right rotation doesn't really do that well when the direction is switched.
Best thing there is a mirror match.
I don't want to believe that a single bey/layer is unbeatable tho and while I did give some more extreme limitations here, just to see what combo's would pop-up, I can't even think of anything that could go up against LS and win (both directions).
I already made the reply this long but I'm not necessarily looking for something that can beat LS as much as I'm looking for a rG (or big bang) combo that's at least on par with LS.
To come back to your listed combo, would you replace rG with big bang or stick with armor on rG?
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:38 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 8:17 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't much of a challenge, this is you asking for a combo that fulfils some very specific requirements on very specific Layers and parts, in both directions. You want a unicorn. No one layer is going to win on both spin directions against Lord with a single set of parts. That's not how anything works. Especially not against Lord, and especially not with rG. The combo that works doesn't exist just because you want it to exist.
It probably can't be done reliably. rG isn't going to KO Lord in either spin reliably, Lord isn't going to burst when properly constructed with a gold sting, or a blitz.
Perfect rG 00cr xt+ will probably get you the closest.
So unicrest ... interesting.
Jokes aside, isn't that what makes it a challenge tho?
Whether it's possible or not, doesn't necessarily matter.
If I recall correctly, which let's be honest I have a horrible memory, LS can't change it's spin in a match during tournaments. Not sure how it is in between matches tho.
Correct me there if I'm wrong please, we don't have tournaments here so my knowledge of the rules isn't really perfect.
But at that point, it's easily countered. I can bring forth beys that can beat it left and/or right spinning.
However, not only do those rules not apply in free battle/matches, any bey that works against it in left or right rotation doesn't really do that well when the direction is switched.
Best thing there is a mirror match.
I don't want to believe that a single bey/layer is unbeatable tho and while I did give some more extreme limitations here, just to see what combo's would pop-up, I can't even think of anything that could go up against LS and win (both directions).
I already made the reply this long but I'm not necessarily looking for something that can beat LS as much as I'm looking for a rG (or big bang) combo that's at least on par with LS.
To come back to your listed combo, would you replace rG with big bang or stick with armor on rG?
Perfect Ry actually does better than By with the armor
I said Perfect. That means armor. But rG is just the wrong choice to go against Lord.
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:41 PM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote: [ -> ]Perfect Ry actually does better than By with the armor
Really?! I've seen people on both sides, personally, I don't know since I haven't received mine yet. Still stuck on just regalia γenesis ... it's the prettiest one tho, so I can't complain too much XD
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:42 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]I said Perfect. That means armor. But rG is just the wrong choice to go against Lord.
I know that means armor, no worries.
And I do agree with that but I need a Lord replacement and I like rG, so yeah, that's where the whole thread came from XD
Btw, a random scenario here, one that can but shouldn't exist.
Lets say there are 2 people, 2 friends/brothers/sisters/whatever, 1 has rG and the other LS.
Both have access to every single other part except of course the energy layer. You say that the person with rG has pretty much no chance against the LS ...
makes it a bit boring, doesn't it?
After this thread, or talking to you (not bad meant) I now know how my little brothers feel playing against me O.O
Don't get me wrong I understand what you mean. I guess that's why there's a deck format thingy.
Speaking of format, was my statement about the spin change rule correct? I was kind of hoping that would've been answered
(Feb. 14, 2020 9:00 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 8:41 PM)HakaishinLDrago Wrote: [ -> ]Perfect Ry actually does better than By with the armor
Really?! I've seen people on both sides, personally, I don't know since I haven't received mine yet. Still stuck on just regalia γenesis ... it's the prettiest one tho, so I can't complain too much XD
(Feb. 14, 2020 8:42 PM)DeceasedCrab Wrote: [ -> ]I said Perfect. That means armor. But rG is just the wrong choice to go against Lord.
I know that means armor, no worries.
And I do agree with that but I need a Lord replacement and I like rG, so yeah, that's where the whole thread came from XD
Btw, a random scenario here, one that can but shouldn't exist.
Lets say there are 2 people, 2 friends/brothers/sisters/whatever, 1 has rG and the other LS.
Both have access to every single other part except of course the energy layer. You say that the person with rG has pretty much no chance against the LS ...
makes it a bit boring, doesn't it?
After this thread, or talking to you (not bad meant) I now know how my little brothers feel playing against me O.O
Don't get me wrong I understand what you mean. I guess that's why there's a deck format thingy.
Speaking of format, was my statement about the spin change rule correct? I was kind of hoping that would've been answered
That rule is correct. You can't change the spin direction DURING the match, but you can change it after that match is completed.
(Feb. 14, 2020 9:04 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 9:00 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]Really?! I've seen people on both sides, personally, I don't know since I haven't received mine yet. Still stuck on just regalia γenesis ... it's the prettiest one tho, so I can't complain too much XD
I know that means armor, no worries.
And I do agree with that but I need a Lord replacement and I like rG, so yeah, that's where the whole thread came from XD
Btw, a random scenario here, one that can but shouldn't exist.
Lets say there are 2 people, 2 friends/brothers/sisters/whatever, 1 has rG and the other LS.
Both have access to every single other part except of course the energy layer. You say that the person with rG has pretty much no chance against the LS ...
makes it a bit boring, doesn't it?
After this thread, or talking to you (not bad meant) I now know how my little brothers feel playing against me O.O
Don't get me wrong I understand what you mean. I guess that's why there's a deck format thingy.
Speaking of format, was my statement about the spin change rule correct? I was kind of hoping that would've been answered
That rule is correct. You can't change the spin direction DURING the match, but you can change it after that match is completed.
Thanks for clarifying.
I guess that makes it a bit more balanced. I'll assume that left is probably the preferred way?!
Then again, I prefer having it on right ... so idk if I'm right assuming that there XD
(Feb. 14, 2020 9:11 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 9:04 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ]That rule is correct. You can't change the spin direction DURING the match, but you can change it after that match is completed.
Thanks for clarifying.
I guess that makes it a bit more balanced. I'll assume that left is probably the preferred way?!
Then again, I prefer having it on right ... so idk if I'm right assuming that there XD
Yeah, most people use left rotation for Lord Spriggan. pP 00C Xt+ can counter it though.
(Feb. 14, 2020 9:13 PM)#Fafnir Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 9:11 PM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for clarifying.
I guess that makes it a bit more balanced. I'll assume that left is probably the preferred way?!
Then again, I prefer having it on right ... so idk if I'm right assuming that there XD
Yeah, most people use left rotation for Lord Spriggan. pP 00C Xt+ can counter it though.
I can and have seen it counter right but left? I use pP with atomic and it's 50-50 against right LS but more like 80-20 for LS when on left.
Idk if Xt+ would make such a difference there. Against left LS I was thinking more of Zwei Diabolos or the one that Blind uses, behamuth or something. I'm really bad with names
Rγ.St.Ul' was never meant to beat Bearing combos, primarily just Xt+ combos. I don't know if you learned the combo from my video, your own testing, or another source, but there is an alternative for when you go up against LS.St.Br. Rγ.St.X' is able to get some pretty solid hits on LS in both directions. I don't know why this combo doesn't work as well against LS.Bl.Xt+, but that's besides the point of the challenge.
How about regalia genesis (Big Bang armor) hybrid, it beat my lord spriggan on both
Also is acting like I though gwyn would in real life
(Feb. 14, 2020 9:44 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: [ -> ] Rγ.St.Ul' was never meant to beat Bearing combos, primarily just Xt+ combos. I don't know if you learned the combo from my video, your own testing, or another source, but there is an alternative for when you go up against LS.St.Br. Rγ.St.X' is able to get some pretty solid hits on LS in both directions. I don't know why this combo doesn't work as well against LS.Bl.Xt+, but that's besides the point of the challenge.
I don't know you so I didn't get it from your video(s).
Rγ;St;Ul' came from what I had with me at the time.
Coming to your given combo tho, wouldn't Jolt' be better for a nicer flower pattern?
That's the reason why I wanted to try out Ul' in the first place since my tip retracts within seconds after launch giving an almost full power flower pattern.
Hits really hard just not enough.
LS;Bl;Xt+ isn't as reliable to me as St;Br is. Personal preferences at this point.
(Feb. 14, 2020 10:30 PM)The Rex Wrote: [ -> ]How about regalia genesis (Big Bang armor) hybrid, it beat my lord spriggan on both
Also is acting like I though gwyn would in real life
I'll definitely be trying out some combo's again after I get my Big Bang but for now, I have to do with what I have.
Also that comment really threw me off my game XD
Thanks for the compliment tho ... I think.
(Feb. 15, 2020 12:24 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 14, 2020 9:44 PM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: [ -> ] Rγ.St.Ul' was never meant to beat Bearing combos, primarily just Xt+ combos. I don't know if you learned the combo from my video, your own testing, or another source, but there is an alternative for when you go up against LS.St.Br. Rγ.St.X' is able to get some pretty solid hits on LS in both directions. I don't know why this combo doesn't work as well against LS.Bl.Xt+, but that's besides the point of the challenge.
I don't know you so I didn't get it from your video(s).
Rγ;St;Ul' came from what I had with me at the time.
Coming to your given combo tho, wouldn't Jolt' be better for a nicer flower pattern?
That's the reason why I wanted to try out Ul' in the first place since my tip retracts within seconds after launch giving an almost full power flower pattern.
Hits really hard just not enough.
LS;Bl;Xt+ isn't as reliable to me as St;Br is. Personal preferences at this point.
It's an interesting coincidence I guess. I have only tried out Jolt once because one of my friends owns it, so I don't know how it feels on Rγ, but I'm pretty sure it's just a harder-hitting Quick'. Xtreme' has more grip and control than Jolt from what I felt, so I'd probably still go with Xtreme' either way. Rγ is one of my favorite Layers for Attack, so I've been using Sting Ultimate Reboot' on it a lot, but Xtreme' is much better in the matchup against LS.St.Br, so it just depends on what you want out of the combo. Since Ul' doesn't have enough LAD to outspin Left Bearing, you might as well go with Xtreme' in this situation.
(Feb. 15, 2020 12:51 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 12:24 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know you so I didn't get it from your video(s).
Rγ;St;Ul' came from what I had with me at the time.
Coming to your given combo tho, wouldn't Jolt' be better for a nicer flower pattern?
That's the reason why I wanted to try out Ul' in the first place since my tip retracts within seconds after launch giving an almost full power flower pattern.
Hits really hard just not enough.
LS;Bl;Xt+ isn't as reliable to me as St;Br is. Personal preferences at this point.
It's an interesting coincidence I guess. I have only tried out Jolt once because one of my friends owns it, so I don't know how it feels on Rγ, but I'm pretty sure it's just a harder-hitting Quick'. Xtreme' has more grip and control than Jolt from what I felt, so I'd probably still go with Xtreme' either way. Rγ is one of my favorite Layers for Attack, so I've been using Sting Ultimate Reboot' on it a lot, but Xtreme' is much better in the matchup against LS.St.Br, so it just depends on what you want out of the combo. Since Ul' doesn't have enough LAD to outspin Left Bearing, you might as well go with Xtreme' in this situation.
Strange, I always found that Jolt does more what I want it to do.
Xtreme tends to just go really fast around the stadium in a circle and by the time it gets to the middle where LS is dwelling, it's out of juice.
Hence, the Ul' and the preferred Jolt'.
At that point it really does come down to personal preference. Jolt does seem to have less stamina than either Ul' and/or Xtreme', so I'm a bit at an impasse.
(Feb. 15, 2020 2:12 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 12:51 AM)CitrusNinja3 Wrote: [ -> ]It's an interesting coincidence I guess. I have only tried out Jolt once because one of my friends owns it, so I don't know how it feels on Rγ, but I'm pretty sure it's just a harder-hitting Quick'. Xtreme' has more grip and control than Jolt from what I felt, so I'd probably still go with Xtreme' either way. Rγ is one of my favorite Layers for Attack, so I've been using Sting Ultimate Reboot' on it a lot, but Xtreme' is much better in the matchup against LS.St.Br, so it just depends on what you want out of the combo. Since Ul' doesn't have enough LAD to outspin Left Bearing, you might as well go with Xtreme' in this situation.
Strange, I always found that Jolt does more what I want it to do.
Xtreme tends to just go really fast around the stadium in a circle and by the time it gets to the middle where LS is dwelling, it's out of juice.
Hence, the Ul' and the preferred Jolt'.
At that point it really does come down to personal preference. Jolt does seem to have less stamina than either Ul' and/or Xtreme', so I'm a bit at an impasse.
Then you don’t know how to launch attack types. You have to do a sliding shoot to get it to bank launch and get to the center to attack.
(Feb. 15, 2020 2:13 AM)BuilderROB Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 2:12 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]Strange, I always found that Jolt does more what I want it to do.
Xtreme tends to just go really fast around the stadium in a circle and by the time it gets to the middle where LS is dwelling, it's out of juice.
Hence, the Ul' and the preferred Jolt'.
At that point it really does come down to personal preference. Jolt does seem to have less stamina than either Ul' and/or Xtreme', so I'm a bit at an impasse.
Then you don’t know how to launch attack types. You have to do a sliding shoot to get it to bank launch and get to the center to attack.
Ah, damn, I completely forgot you actually launch your beyblades, I just placed them in the center and made them spin with my mind.
You do realize there are 2 (or more I suppose) beyblades in play during a match, right?
Because yes, I can launch both Jolt', Xtreme', etc in a way that they make similar motions when nothing else is in the stadium.
But other beys aren't just gonna watch you do that. They mess up your mojo and in my case, against my little bros, they often reflect the first hit and practically pin you to the side forcing you into the circle of doom.
Hence drivers that correct themselves like Jolt' are in practice better.
Xtreme' is by far the best on paper but in an actual match ...
(Feb. 15, 2020 3:03 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 2:13 AM)BuilderROB Wrote: [ -> ]Then you don’t know how to launch attack types. You have to do a sliding shoot to get it to bank launch and get to the center to attack.
Ah, damn, I completely forgot you actually launch your beyblades, I just placed them in the center and made them spin with my mind.
You do realize there are 2 (or more I suppose) beyblades in play during a match, right?
Because yes, I can launch both Jolt', Xtreme', etc in a way that they make similar motions when nothing else is in the stadium.
But other beys aren't just gonna watch you do that. They mess up your mojo and in my case, against my little bros, they often reflect the first hit and practically pin you to the side forcing you into the circle of doom.
Hence drivers that correct themselves like Jolt' are in practice better.
Xtreme' is by far the best on paper but in an actual match ...
Apologies, but winning combos don’t lie. Xtreme’ is the best attack driver for KO’s and Bursts at this time and you have to accept that. Also what do you mean “Mess up you mojo”?
(Feb. 15, 2020 3:03 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 2:13 AM)BuilderROB Wrote: [ -> ]Then you don’t know how to launch attack types. You have to do a sliding shoot to get it to bank launch and get to the center to attack.
Ah, damn, I completely forgot you actually launch your beyblades, I just placed them in the center and made them spin with my mind.
You do realize there are 2 (or more I suppose) beyblades in play during a match, right?
Because yes, I can launch both Jolt', Xtreme', etc in a way that they make similar motions when nothing else is in the stadium.
But other beys aren't just gonna watch you do that. They mess up your mojo and in my case, against my little bros, they often reflect the first hit and practically pin you to the side forcing you into the circle of doom.
Hence drivers that correct themselves like Jolt' are in practice better.
Xtreme' is by far the best on paper but in an actual match ...
I repeat this is the real life gwyn
(Feb. 15, 2020 3:05 AM)BuilderROB Wrote: [ -> ] (Feb. 15, 2020 3:03 AM)Kosura Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, damn, I completely forgot you actually launch your beyblades, I just placed them in the center and made them spin with my mind.
You do realize there are 2 (or more I suppose) beyblades in play during a match, right?
Because yes, I can launch both Jolt', Xtreme', etc in a way that they make similar motions when nothing else is in the stadium.
But other beys aren't just gonna watch you do that. They mess up your mojo and in my case, against my little bros, they often reflect the first hit and practically pin you to the side forcing you into the circle of doom.
Hence drivers that correct themselves like Jolt' are in practice better.
Xtreme' is by far the best on paper but in an actual match ...
Apologies, but winning combos don’t lie. Xtreme’ is the best attack driver for KO’s and Bursts at this time and you have to accept that. Also what do you mean “Mess up you mojo”?
Winning combos aren't perfect, they're not even correct. I know you competitive players like to follow notes but winning combos come from what they were played against, won and lost.
Not even in an open field but a local scene. Easily countered or used as counter. Overlooking practically anything and everything that isn't used within said tournament.
Use only a single one of those "winning combos" against everything and that win-rate will drop drastically.
That's something that you're clearly oblivious to or at least that's how you come over.
Which is pretty hypocritical coming from me since, even I know that you know more than me when it comes to beyblade, especially good combos since those come out of the competitive scene. It's just that competitive players have a fairly limited view on things.
"Mess up your mojo" a clear statement but let me rephrase it.
When you launch a bey it'll go a certain way, I'm rhyming here so you'd better appreciate it, when another bey hits that bey, what happens?
It messes up the flow. And in my case, against my brothers, often in such a way that you'll be stuck to the side.
Even my LS with bearing has done circles due to a well placed hit.
ps: that's what this thing is about. Finding something that can stand up (not win 100% of the time but at least go 50-50) against anything and everything.
Not something that ends up on the winning combos even if you forgot you even had it sitting there in your deck.