The difference between Thermal and Flash and a top tier stamina wheel is the shape. Thermal and Flash aren't perfectly round like a traditional stamina wheel, such as Duo. It's symmetrical, just not completely symmetrical all the away around. So if you were to fold it at a certain angle it wouldn't line up perfectly.
But Thermal doesn't have two imaginary wheels with more weight or even shape.
(Jun. 22, 2014 11:25 PM)Echizen Wrote: [ -> ]The difference between Thermal and Flash and a top tier stamina wheel is the shape. Thermal and Flash aren't perfectly round like a traditional stamina wheel, such as Duo. It's symmetrical, just not completely symmetrical all the away around. So if you were to fold it at a certain angle it wouldn't line up perfectly.
But Thermal doesn't have two imaginary wheels with more weight or even shape.
o.e
I know, I'm making an example. Thermal is not negatively affected by weight being focused in any one area - if Thermal had its weight re-distributed around more evenly, it would not affect its Stamina as long as the weight was not moved towards or away from its center.
I'm not talking about mirror symmetry - relatively few Beyblades have mirror symmetry. However, almost all MFB have
rotational symmetry. Rotational symmetry is when, if you turn an object about the axis a certain amount, it looks
exactly the same as it did before you turned it. For example, Thermal has 180 degree rotational symmetry - spin it 180 degrees and it will look exactly the same as before. Galaxy has 120 degree rotational symmetry - make one-third of a turn and the next wing will have moved into the same position another wing once was in. Death has 45 degree rotational symmetry- turn it one-eighth of a turn and the wings/heads will align the same as before. The result of this symmetry is that the Beyblade is balanced - it has equal amounts of weight distributed at equal intervals, and thus will remain balanced. This is also why most Chrome Wheels are imbalanced - they are not symmetrical rotationally and therefore will not necessarily be balanced. It is possible to counteract the lack of symmetry by appropriately distributing weight (which is why Genbull is so strong in Stamina despite its lack of symmetry), but in general rotational symmetry means balance.
Why didn't you say that earlier? XD In the example you gave me it foesn't really support that though, so I can't be sure it's correct.
But the few that do, are top-tier Stamina Beyblades.
Since Thermal is such an odd shape and hard to take down in one hit, that's what makes it a destabilizer. It's a Balance wheel, not Stamina, if anything.
(Jun. 22, 2014 10:25 PM)Cake Wrote: [ -> ]...does not have a necessarily "even" weight distribution (rotationally). On the "claws" of Cancer, the...
The moment of inertia (therotational quantity that defines the flywheel effect and therefore Stamina) for a cylindrical tube is...
...the height of the cylinder does not matter - all that matters is that the cylinder has rotational symmetry (so as to be balanced...
Here's the important part - for any object rotating around a certain axis...
I mentioned rotating a bunch, and directly said "rotational symmetry" lol
And my second example still applies, and supports it just fine anyways... I'm not sure what you mean. In the case of Thermal (or any other Beyblade with 180 degree symmetry, such as Flash, Phantom, Duo, Death, Burn, Libra, Virgo, Bakushin, Earth, etc.) the weighted-point example works just fine - if a Beyblade has 180 degree symmetry, for every section of the Beyblade there will be another section of equal mass and weight distribution on the opposite side of the Beyblade - that is, rotated 180 degrees away. Basically, I'm slicing the Beyblade in half and regarding that half's COG as a single point, then using that in the formula. The weight distribution does not matter rotationally, as long as the Beyblade remains rotationally symmetrical. Stamina is affected only when weight is moved closer or further from the center of the Beyblade, which changes the moment of inertia and thus affects the strength of the Flywheel effect.
But if that was true to every extent, then Phantom would more or less be just as good as Duo. But it isn't. And what about Genbull?
lol Phantom = Duo for Stamina, or Phantom is even better, depending on who you ask. The only reason Phantom isn't top tier is that it is too recoil-y to stay in the stadium on a Stamina setup against even mildly aggressive Synchromes.
Also, I already pointed out that Genbull is an exception.
(Jun. 23, 2014 12:13 AM)Cake Wrote: [ -> ]This is also why most Chrome Wheels are imbalanced - they are not symmetrical rotationally and therefore will not necessarily be balanced. It is possible to counteract the lack of symmetry by appropriately distributing weight (which is why Genbull is so strong in Stamina despite its lack of symmetry), but in general rotational symmetry means balance.
A Beyblade with rotational symmetry (or any object for that matter) will
always be balanced. It may not be incredible for Stamina, but it will be balanced. However, lack of rotational symmetry does not necessarily mean a Beyblade will be imbalanced, either. Genbull is an example of that.
Phantom and duo are obviously the top wheels for stamina or "other" types (except attack)...
Actually, The Ganbalancer, Phantom is no-longer top-tier for Stamina. Don't suggest information when you don't know what you're talking about.
Is that list official yet? No, it's not.
Btw Kai-V finally noticed my D125 argument
No, but it's been approved by a commitee member nearly, and a commitee member has agreed Phantom should be left off.
And I said it wasn't top-tier not that it wasn't on the top-tier list...
Arguement...? You just said, 'Why don't we add D125 to Genbull Dragoon T125GCF'.
But Phantom is not being knocked off because of Stamina reasons, it's being taken off because it has recoil issues.
Ganbalancer is actually pretty much right - Duo and Phantom are the top two Stamina wheels. But Phantom is no longer safe to use because it's liable to be KOed really easily.
Ehh... it's not really becuase of recoil, becuase of its weight it doesn't take hits as well, and loses stamina a lot faster, from what I've seen.
Dragoon, Genbull, and Duo are a lot better for stamina.
Actually, the main reason Duo is preferred over Phantom and the main reason it's being taken off of the list is because of its recoil, as Cake stated.
But this really is just arguing back and forth guys, not necessarily giving someone a combination.
Duo has less weight than Phantom does...
Dragooon has only OK Stamina; the only thing it has going for it is its complete monopoly on the left-spin meta. Genbull is really heavy, which makes it excel at grinding opponents down.
Phantom is great for Stamina. Dragooon, Duo, and Genbull are all useful for Stamina, but they are
not "a lot stronger" by any means. I also have no idea where you got the idea that Phantom loses Stamina quickly, because it doesn't - unless you mean in grinding against heavy Synchromes, in which case Duo has that problem too - and, in fact, I would argue it is
worse on Duo since it's easy to hit Duo's CW, which will stop it very quickly.
(Jun. 23, 2014 7:43 PM)Leone19 Wrote: [ -> ]But this really is just arguing back and forth guys, not necessarily giving someone a combination.
I'd have to agree- this is really off topic and I'm not going to keep pushing it that way.
I meant the way the weight is distributed...
Spin-Steal is still considered stamina.
Also its shape actually makes it extremely good at Stamina. Take Genbull Dragooon T125GCF for example. The only reason Genbull is used is for its Stamina.
Actually it does. A stock Phantom can go about 6 minutes deoending in the mold. But when it's in battle, it doesn't do even nearly as well. So I don't know what you're talking about....
I recently added some beys to my collection so, what can I do with this ?
I'm only looking for Limited/Zero-G combos
Here my collection :
Attack
Cosmic Pegasus W105R2F (Hasbro)
Wing Pegasus 90WF (Hasbro)
Galaxy Pegasus W105R2F (Takara-Tomy)
Storm Capricorne M145Q (Takara-Tomy)
L-Drago Destructor LW105LF (Hasbro)
Spiral Lyre ED145MF (Hasbro)
Ray Gil 100RSF (Takara-Tomy)
Defense
Variares 145WB (Hasbro)
Fang Leone 130W2D (Hasbro)
Rock Escolpio T125JB (Takara-Tomy)
Stamina
Duo Ice-Titan 230WD (Hasbro)
Duo Uranus 230WD (Takara-Tomy)
Scythe Kronos T125EDS (Hasbro, light mold)
Phantom Orion B: D (Hasbro)
Thermal Pisces T125ES (Takara-Tomy)
Earth Virgo GB145BS (Hasbro)
Flame Aquila 100ES (Takara-Tomy)
Hell Kerbecs BD145DS (Takara-Tomy)
Balance
Killer Beafowl UW145EWD (SonoKong)
Galaxy Sagittario 145CS (Takara-Tomy)
Death Quetzacoatl 125SF (Hasbro)
Blitz Lynx TR145R2F (Hasbro)
Burn Escolpio 100RF (Takara-Tomy)
Nightmare Rex SW145SD (Hasbro)
Dark Gasher CH120SF (Takara-Tomy)
Zero-G
Bandit Genbu F230TB (Hasbro)
Samurai Ifrit W145CF (Hasbro)
Archer Killerken 130B (Takara-Tomy)
Ronin Dragoon LW160BSF (Hasbro)
Attack: Killerken Dragoon LW105R2F
Defense: Killerken Genbu BD145RSF
Stamina: Duo Gasher W145WD/EWD/Killerken Dragooon B
Balance: Genbu Dragoon F230CF/Phantom Gasher 100MF
Killerken dragoon b:d works for me...
(Jun. 28, 2014 12:03 AM)Echizen Wrote: [ -> ]Stamina: Duo Gasher W145WD/EWD/Killerken Dragooon W145EWD/WD
Hum, Duo isn't for Standard format ?
(Jun. 27, 2014 11:57 PM)|BeyBouncer| Wrote: [ -> ]I recently added some beys to my collection so, what can I do with this ?
I'm only looking for Limited/Zero-G combos
Here my collection :
Attack
Cosmic Pegasus W105R2F (Hasbro)
Wing Pegasus 90WF (Hasbro)
Galaxy Pegasus W105R2F (Takara-Tomy)
Storm Capricorne M145Q (Takara-Tomy)
L-Drago Destructor LW105LF (Hasbro)
Spiral Lyre ED145MF (Hasbro)
Ray Gil 100RSF (Takara-Tomy)
Defense
Variares 145WB (Hasbro)
Fang Leone 130W2D (Hasbro)
Rock Escolpio T125JB (Takara-Tomy)
Stamina
Duo Ice-Titan 230WD (Hasbro)
Duo Uranus 230WD (Takara-Tomy)
Scythe Kronos T125EDS (Hasbro, light mold)
Phantom Orion B: D (Hasbro)
Thermal Pisces T125ES (Takara-Tomy)
Earth Virgo GB145BS (Hasbro)
Flame Aquila 100ES (Takara-Tomy)
Hell Kerbecs BD145DS (Takara-Tomy)
Balance
Killer Beafowl UW145EWD (SonoKong)
Galaxy Sagittario 145CS (Takara-Tomy)
Death Quetzacoatl 125SF (Hasbro)
Blitz Lynx TR145R2F (Hasbro)
Burn Escolpio 100RF (Takara-Tomy)
Nightmare Rex SW145SD (Hasbro)
Dark Gasher CH120SF (Takara-Tomy)
Zero-G
Bandit Genbu F230TB (Hasbro)
Samurai Ifrit W145CF (Hasbro)
Archer Killerken 130B (Takara-Tomy)
Ronin Dragoon LW160BSF (Hasbro)
Attack/Zero-G attack: Variares 100RF/R2F,Killerken Dragooon LW160CF
Defence/zero-G defence
uo Kerbecs GB145WB,Killerken Genbu Tr145BSF
Stamina
hantom Kerbecs W145EDS,Killerken Genbu F230TB
Balance:Killerken Dragooon F230CF
Oh I missed that last part. Use the combos I mentioned, but for the attakc combo use GB145. And GB145 for Defense. Don't use Phantom 100MF.
For Limited: Try Cosmic Kerbecs TR145R2F, Earth Gasher GB145RSF, Burn Gasher W145WD/Duo(Hasbro) Gasher W145WD, and Samurai Dragoon F230CF/Burn Gasher 100Mf.
Hasbro's Duo is really light, I don't think I'm gonna use it